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Finishes for bottle stoppers

D

DennisM

Joined
Dec 4, 2004
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Location
Washington IL - Central Illinois Peoria Area
I am going to make up a new batch of bottle stoppers and would appreciate input on an appropriate finish. I have noticed that the stoppers I made two years back have white blemishes on them. Not sure what finish I used. Probably Hut Crystal Coat. I also have finished some with spayed Deft.

As I think about it, both finishes were not good choices if I want the stoppers to last.

Would appreciate input on a long lasting finish for bottle stoppers.

Thanks

Dennis Belcher
 
Dennis,

I used Hut CC before but was never satisfied because shallac is not hard or long lasting. Now I use Deft Laquer cut 73/30 with thinner. Long lasting shine that does not go away after being handled. Dale Nish uses this finish for all his small turned items.

Hope this helps, Vince
 
Vince;

I thought that Deft didn't hold up well against moisture. You agree or disagree?
The bottle stoppers will be made out of purple-heart, so I had thought about just the Beale buff system with just wax. Again I am unsure if the wax will hold up against the cold of refrigerators and moisture.

Dennis
 
I'll add another vote for the CA glue (if you're looking for a gloss finish). I've used it with great results on several bottle stoppers. I use the same approach on pens (let a couple coats of CA harden, sand it lightly with 400 grit AO paper, followed by the various Micromesh grits to 12,000, then buff with White Diamond compound).
 
I use the Hut abrasive sticks on my inexpensive wine stoppers and lacquer on my expensive ones. I wouldn't recommend anything that can be damaged by alcohol. I think CA would be a good finish I just don't like using the stuff and it's expensive.
For a lacquer finish I put one thin coat on while it's on the lathe. I apply it with the lathe running really slow and then run the speed up and buff it off. Then I put about 10 of them on a stand and spray them. I buff them on the Beal buffing system.
I use the brown Hut stick on the inexpensive ones. I sand to 320 grit and apply the stick with the lathe running at high speed and then buff it out with a small rag. If there are any really fine details the rag won't get in there so I use a toothpick as my buff on the deep details. Works great and cleans out any of the hut that builds up in these details.
 
Another vote for Deft Spray Lacquer. I spray it on while stil on the lathe and buff it in with a cotton cloth as the lathe spins. Couple coats and I have has ZERO problems.
 
DennisM said:
Does anyone have experience with how well CA glue holds up over time, against moisture, and against cold in refrigerators?

I have also used CA glue on pens, but not a great fan of the plasticized feel of the wood.
Click to expand...

Dennis,

No experience as to moisture or cold. Agreed about anything plastic feeling.

What all of us know from experience, however, is that moisture and cold affect WOOD. If you cause the wood to contract and expand, you're kind of defeating the whole purpose of using wood with a stable moisture content! Further, moisture causes wood to swell. I don't think that CA as an entity moves much. I'd bet bucks that if it does shrink or expand with moisture, it ain't much, and would be less than most wood species. That means that joints could become suspect pretty quickly. Using stabilized, resin-filled woods might help minimize that problem. Using plastics certainly would. But then, they are going to be susceptible to shrinkage and expansion because of the cold, as would be any metal used in the project, yes?

The time thing is something that's been coming up on various forums for the last few months. It seems that folks who've been using CA for lots of years are starting to see failures in their pieces after 12-15 years. These comments have come from folks doing primarily art pieces and pens, not utility pieces.

Probably good to keep pens out of the fridge anyhow, right? 🙂
 
Dennis
I use
1) Deft Brushing Laquer gloss- thinned, burnished dry with a paper towel. This seals and builds a good base
2) Shine with EEE, especially effective on Stabilized
3) Top with Mylands friction polish - for depth of shine
4) Assemble stopper
5) Coat stopper and hardware with Renaisance Wax, alchohol resistance

I can show you when you come up for those big bowl chunks. This is also what I am using on the ornaments for finish. I really don't have a spot clean enough for spraying anything.

Frank
 
DennisM said:
Vince;

I thought that Deft didn't hold up well against moisture. You agree or disagree?
The bottle stoppers will be made out of purple-heart, so I had thought about just the Beale buff system with just wax. Again I am unsure if the wax will hold up against the cold of refrigerators and moisture.

Dennis
Click to expand...

Hi Dennis,
I know that once moisture gets under laquer it does not do well. But I think it holds up better then Wax or shellac. I usually wipe it on a thin coat and build up a finish. I beleive this would be a better finish then wax which will not hold a sheen for long. However, I have heard that Reniesance(sp) wax holds for a very long time. Perhaps that might be an option.
 
Thinking out loud

As I review the responses on this thread, they make me stop and go back to basics.
All shellac or lacquer based finishes will fail under repeated exposure to moisture. The moisture on bottle stoppers will come about from the movement of the stopper from a warm environment to a refrigerator. Ergo all shellac or lacquer based finishes are poor choices.

Wax finishes will resist moisture, but they too will show the effects of handling and exposure to moisture/condensation.

I think the comment about wood movement and CA is valid. Because stoppers will move from room temperature to 40 degrees, there should be an accelerated breakdown of the CA glue in this application.

This backs me into the tung oil/walnut oil finishes. The shellac, lacquer, wax finishes are quick and easy, but will break down rather rapidly. The tung oil, walnut oil choices are better for utility bowls because they withstand moisture and can be renew. The downside is that they take longer to finish.
But if I want to make something that will last for longer than a year, beginning to think that I am forced into either tung oil or walnut oil.

Since the tung oil finishes build better for buffing, probably will go for Waterlox as a finish on the stoppers.

Dennis
 
DennisM said:
As I review the responses on this thread, they make me stop and go back to basics.
All shellac or lacquer based finishes will fail under repeated exposure to moisture. The moisture on bottle stoppers will come about from the movement of the stopper from a warm environment to a refrigerator.
Click to expand...

Hmmmmm.... Y'think? In my house condensation happens on the cold object moved into a warm environment.

Thermal properties of wood are not significantly different from the finish applied, certainly not of the magnitude of changes from adsorbing moisture, so I think that red herring can be refrigerated. Makes the finish of choice the most water-resistant, if all we're thinking about is thermal and condensation. Shellac, hands down. Of course, it is vulnerable to alcohol if you're not careful.
 
Hey Dennis,
I think I am going to turn 3 stoppers and use various finishes. I wills see what I prefer best over time and then I will post a thread talking about this subject again. Perhaps you can do the same and we will pick this up again in the future and discuss our results.

Vince
 
Michael, I stand corrected. The moisture forms with movement from the refrig to room temperature.

I tried to pull up your link to Fine Woodworking, but since I haven't paid them for access to their online articles, I couldn't read the one you were referring to. I did note that the article showed an issue number of 64. That's quite old. I did look thru my issues of Fine Woodworking and came across an article "Wipe on Finishes; Which one works best?" It's in issue number 178 from August 2005. They tested 17 wipe on finishes. Four were rated Excellent for Water resistance;
Mimwax Fast-Drying Poly Varnish, Moser's Natural Danish Oil, Miniwax Wipe-on Poly, and Waterlox Original High Gloss Finish.

Next I did a search on shellac and came across the following http://www.woodcentral.com/bparticles/shellac.shtml on Woodcentral. Scroll on down towards the end to the advantages and disadvantages. The white rings would match up with what I was seeing on the stoppers in question.

I also searched the Deft website for the specs on Deft and found "
IMPORTANT NOTE In moisture prone areas, (kitchens, bathrooms, windowsills etc.) white water spotting will occur when the film thickness is less than 4 or 5 mils. Apply at least six full coats of CLEAR WOOD FINISH to prevent white water spotting. "

The same search on the Waterlox site found:
I want to use Waterlox in my bathroom--will it stand up to moisture?​

We think that our tung oil finishes are the perfect answer for all and any wood finishing project. When you add to that your plans to do a known water-related area like a bathroom, we think we are the only choice since no other finish has our waterproof properties...the origin of our name, Waterlox, stands for "locks out water"! Of course, you should not allow pooled water to remain on any wood surface. In a bathroom, we would suggest 4 coats of our finishes.
Dennis
 
Well maybe this is a bit late, but I used to use Deft. Bottle stoppers get dropped and the Deft finish easily showed nicks and dents. I switched to CA glue and that problem has been nearly eliminated. Plus the drying time for CA is much less than Deft, so the process goes much faster.

Bob A

DennisM said:
I am going to make up a new batch of bottle stoppers and would appreciate input on an appropriate finish. I have noticed that the stoppers I made two years back have white blemishes on them. Not sure what finish I used. Probably Hut Crystal Coat. I also have finished some with spayed Deft.

As I think about it, both finishes were not good choices if I want the stoppers to last.

Would appreciate input on a long lasting finish for bottle stoppers.

Thanks

Dennis Belcher
Click to expand...
 
My best bet is on Minwax wipe-on poly, love the stuff. Holds up great on bottle stoppers so far for me. I found a lot of the problem with some of my older bottle stoppers was putting wax from a Beall's system over the poly. Love the look when fresh but looks like $%^&* after being exposed to handling and especially some moisture. The wipe-on poly by itself looks pretty good and seems to be pretty durable, plus it's easy to put on with a soft paper towel. No clean-up, just toss the towel (although I always let it dry spread out before tossing in the trash, leftover habit from tung oil finishes). If you haven't tried it you should.

So Vince, making three bottle stoppers with three different finishes would really mean three bottles of wine opened. It would go bad if you weren't fairly quick with it, too bad you don't live closer and I would come over to help evaluate how the stoppers hold up to different levels of wine in the bottle with you. :cool2:
 
On bottle stoppers I just rub them with a little oil then buff with the wax wheel but I don't put much wax on the wheel. The way it looks when the customer buys it is the way it will look in a year or 10 years. They're not getting something shiney that will dull or a finish that will spot. I see stoppers with a great shine and finish but how is the ordinary person going to keep it that way? I tell them to rub it down with a little Johnson paste floor wax if they think it needs a little refreshing.

I've seen stoppers done with the Deft spray lacquer and they do look nice.

Take care,
Ruth
 
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