Finding Your Own Path - Navigating the Variety of Woodturning Approaches

[Barry Crowder]

I hope you guys can give me some guidance as to how you might choose what approach to take in woodturning, given the wide number of approaches available. I have read books and articles, watched videos, had some one-on-one instruction, participate in forums like this one, and am a member of my local woodturning club. I love that there is so much information available, but when I come across conflicting information I am a bit hesitant about how I should discern among the different views.

How does an aspiring woodturner find their own path?

I imagine that before the internet, there was a strong emphasis toward mentorship, and you mostly followed the person that taught you, and probably did some of your own trial-and-error. Now that information is everywhere, the choice of paths is a bit overwhelming.

FWIW, the event that prompted this question is that I had a conversation yesterday with a senior member of my local woodturning club. He told me some things that I had a hard time agreeing with. While I respect his experience, what he said involved safety issues that contradicted some things that I've picked up from other reliable sources (e.g. "Getting Started in Woodturning" by John Kelsey). He also told me to stop using a skew because it "isn't necessary", although I've found it to be a very useful tool for spindle work. I consider the conversation to be mostly civil, but he was a bit patronizing and very dismissive of any approach other than his own.

If it matters, I've been turning for about a year and while I am humble enough to know that I still have A LOT to learn, I'm also not a total newbie.

I will appreciate any guidance you can provide that will help me find my path.

 

[Charlie Knighton]

Jimmy Crewes says any tool and any technique is fine, ok, great........

I would suggest looking at antique pottery and sculpture for inspiration......at least go back to greek or romans......the early southwest 1500 years ago......the pottery had round bottoms.....check out early hawawian stuff.......I like zebbug stuff, its 4500 to 3000 bc and again round bottoms.....they needed the round bottoms because they had dirt/sand floors........

most "artist" have different periods of their work......they do one style, get tired of it, or find something they like better........the longer I turn, the more open to new ideas from others.......some boards (not this one) are just round and brown and if you deviate out you go......

I wish you enjoyment in your journey on your learning curve

 

[hockenbery]

Finding your own path is perhaps something you find by not looking for it so hard.
First the skew.
1. You do not need one
2. If you know how to use one the skew will give the best surface on beads and flats.

Tools in general they all work, they all can be used in several safe and productive ways.
I highly reccomend the Ellsworth grind. If you learn into use the Ellsworth grind you will be an excellent turner.
You can also be an excellent turner with the Michelson grind or the 40/40, with scrapers or many other tools.

My advice for beginners is to start with one or two quality classes. Practice, practice, practice what you learn in the class using the tools you learned in the class with gradual experimentation. Then take an advanced class on techniques that interest you.

We learn a great deal by copying other woodturners but it is bad form to pass that work off as your original work.
So copy things you like but don't sell them.
At some point you will get an idea no one else has done and you find yourself down your own path.

Turned objects with organic elements are usually original work by definition. No one else turned that particular bark edge.

Common objects like bowls, goblets, vases.... Are all copies to some extent. There are few things that have not been done by lots of people in lots of media.
I think it was Bob Stocksdale who said the "Chinese had been copying his forms for thousands of years.

 

[robo hippy]

My approach to mentoring is to try to figure out what the student knows, what tools they have, and work from there, which makes me a student as well. As long as you are not blowing things up, what you are doing works. I have never gotten along with 'my way or the wrong way' people. One has to keep experimenting as well, and I still have no 'fixed' methods as I am always trying to learn some thing new.

robo hippy

 

[AnnHerbst]

Follow your gut on safety

Hi Barry,

It sounds like you are finding modern info on turning from the AAW and your local group. You have also discovered that some people do not like using the skew. They often mainly do bowls, where a skew is a negative rake scraper to them and a weapon of mass destruction otherwise.

I started my modern turning around 2000, with several pens. Then came boxes and vases. Mostly spindle stuff.
I used a skew with good results on my pens. (I did not know better.) I had trouble with bigger things. Then I got to watch Alan Batty and Alan Lacer use skews! I also got to do a hands-on day with Alan Lacer with my local AAW club. Wow, what a difference a hands on day makes. In my club, I became known as a skew user. (I get to do skew demos every few years.)

My point is, go to demos and hands-on days, find a mentor, watch AAW videos, watch You tube videos from people who you know use modern techniques. Modern, for me, means techniques that AAW groups have deemed safe for beginners. One of the newer turning threads is safety. Historically turners were apprentices where they learned the safer (their teachers survived to teach them) techniques given the machines at the time. I know national turners who swear by techniques that would scare me to even try. If a technique scares you, don't try it without somebody you trust helping you. If you are not sure, I would say don't.

I hope you have years to enjoy your turning and finding your way.
Ann

 

[Barry Crowder]

Thank you

I appreciate all the encouraging responses.

My question was very open-ended, and I appreciate the ideas that each of you shared with me. I am taking them to heart and will put them to use going forward.

I guess I'm finding that there are more than a few woodturners who have what Reed referred to as 'my way or the wrong way' attitudes. I ran into one yesterday, which frustrated me because I went into the exchange while trying to follow the oft-spoken advice to seek guidance from my local woodturning club.

Thanks for all the comments so far!

 

[Jamie Straw]

+1 on Barry's advice to stick to your guns on safety. As to the "my way or the highway" persons that you will run into, sounds like you tried to keep it civil, good on ya. I've learned to be respectful of those in my own AAW chapter who are extremely opinionated and/or condescending, but at the same time keep my distance as far as taking them up on mentoring or a shared shop session. My sweetness and civility would dissolve at some point😛 which would not be a good scene. On the other hand, I seek out those who approach mentoring as Robo Hippy describes his dealings with students. Doesn't take long to figure out who's who.

One thing I've noticed about the more experienced turners is that they're so used to having stark newbies show up, they will cover ground that you (I) already know well, so I've learned not to consider that particularly condescending (depending on how they present the info). Since I did a fair amount of "flat" woodworking before I got into turning, it seems I know quite a bit more about some woodworking things than many fairly skilled turners do (e.g., the difference between a jointer and a joiner; how to handle a table saw and even band saw safely).

+1 also on Robo Hippy's advice about classes. A two-day workshop can really help solidify a skill! Another +1 on watching Alan Batty demonstrate use of the skew -- fabulous, and really made me want to become proficient with one. A very versatile tool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfeLAHQSbqk&index=4&list=PLNv2UZA8fY-TDVJl-PlqKl5xc6_sg7rdI

Have fun!

 

[john lucas]

Barry Just turn. Turn, turn and turn. When you turn enough you will find what you enjoy. Don't necessarily rely on what others say you should do. Listen with an open mind but just remember it's their opinion. If you intend to make a living at it then you need to find your niche. Go to Art shows, join you local art group, and do some research. It takes a while to find what you niche is. You may end up selling lots of mixed work until you find what works for you. The other option is to pick something such as bowls or boxes or a certain style and then really really explore it. See how far you can take it. Most artist call this a series. When you explore something you never know where it will lead.
The skew. I love it. Most don't but it's because they don't spend the time to learn to use it. I have over a hundred tools but in reality I use 5 for 99 percent of my projects. A skew, a bowl gouge, and spindle roughing gouge, parting tool and small spindle gouge. All the others I have are more or less variants on those tools or special purpose tools.

 

[John K Jordan]

He also told me to stop using a skew because it "isn't necessary", although I've found it to be a very useful tool for spindle work.

My brother-in-law had a favorite response to a statement like that: "That's what YOU think." Sometimes he even said it out loud.

As for the skew, there are always those who joke about using them to open cans and for scraping, but I and zillions of others, many of them pros and experts, rely on the skew. I'm not going to tell someone they SHOULD be using it, but if interested I'll gladly tell them some reasons I use it. If someone tells me I don't need it: "That's what YOU think!" 🙂

I think the best thing to do is to turn, experiment, try this then that, do five of these and compare them. I often turn something just for play and not try to make something to keep - throw it away afterwards. See how thin I can make that spindle before it breaks. What happens when I try this Hunter tool on a cut that I've never tried before? When removing wood, I like to make almost every cut a practice finish cut; by the time I get to the final profile I'm ready! I listen to demos and take in as much as I can, go home and try things out, then decide if I like that way of doing things.

I think the worst thing you can do is learn to do things one way and stick with it for the next 20 years. I ran into a guy like that doing a demo (that I drove 3 hours to see). He was turning a platter from purpleheart and was very "rigid" - he told us "I'M PUSHING[the gouge] AS HARD AS I CAN!" Yikes. He said he's been turning those platters for 20 years now and can almost do it in his sleep. Tool was getting dull: "Oh, I think I can finish with it." Started to get tearout: "Nothing a little 80 grit won't fix." Measuring the depth of the inside: "I've done this so much I don't need to measure." (Just after that he went through the bottom. I kid you not.)

The person who learns a little and then knows it all will never get any better. I think life is so much more rewarding if we can always stay excited about learning something new!

JKJ

 

[R Henrickson]

Finding your path is best done by turning. Try various things that you think might be interesting, not what people tell you that you should do. Sooner or later you will discover what you like/want to do, and what really doesn't interest you.

 

[Odie]

Finding your path is best done by turning. Try various things that you think might be interesting, not what people tell you that you should do. Sooner or later you will discover what you like/want to do, and what really doesn't interest you.

Probably the best response up to this point......^^^^^

I was in a unique position right from the start, 34 years ago. I knew what I wanted to do, and I've never changed my trajectory in all that time. I wanted to make artistically appealing functional bowls.....bowls that had a basis in function, but became a loose interpretation of the concept, making way for what I feel is my personal "style". Initially, I wanted mentoring and hands-on instruction, but my personal circumstances prevented me from doing so. I relied on a few books and some early VHS videos......and applied a little of that learned knowledge, mixed with a lot of practical application, into something I can call my own. Time in the saddle made me learn by doing.....and, the result is I've solved some of the same problems all turners face in ways that are unique to me. These things don't necessarily, in all cases, lead to "visible style".....but they do mean I may arrive at the same destination in different ways that most turners who learn from the "group think", do. All of these things, as a package, does (IMHO), lead to what I feel is my personal "visible style".

There is such a thing as "my way, or the highway", when it applies to an individual......but, if we try to apply that concept as a universal truth.....it doesn't work, and never will work. When I look back on to the path I've taken, it's true, but I fully understand that if it applies to anyone else, at all.....it will be the exception, rather than the rule. I sometimes try to explain what this means to me......but, I seldom feel I'm understood. In the end, it's all good, and whatever paths a new turner chooses to travel, is fine. There are many paths to take......some well established......and others that require some pioneering spirit! We all have to decide for ourselves what is important to our own individual journey.....and what isn't.

Barry......The fact that you asked this question in the first place.....probably means you are not the kind of person inclined to "go with the flow".... I like that! 😉

ko

 

[Bill Boehme]

.... I love that there is so much information available, but when I come across conflicting information I am a bit hesitant about how I should discern among the different views.....

Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgement -- Unknown
​

I think that in some cases what might be interpreted as conflicting advice might actually be because each person has their own paradigms for applying things to fit their individual needs ... so consider what other woodturners have to offer and recognize the fact that we are all different. None of us follow in lock step with any one particular person. That is both the advantage and ... sometimes the pitfall of open sharing.

... How does an aspiring woodturner find their own path?....

I think that Al said it best -- you might be trying too hard. I've been turning for over a dozen years and still a newbie in respects. I'll let everybody know if or when I think that I have found my own voice. Right now, Native American basket illusion turnings have me solidly hooked, but they take forever to complete. John Lucas offered great advice ... just start turning and the more you turn the more you will find what inspires you.

... I imagine that before the internet, there was a strong emphasis toward mentorship, and you mostly followed the person that taught you, and probably did some of your own trial-and-error. Now that information is everywhere, the choice of paths is a bit overwhelming.....

I think that a great many years ago the way that woodturning was taught had roots in the European apprenticeship system. The founder of our club has over fifty years of experience. He learned in high school and said that his teacher was a German who had very rigid views on how things MUST be done and how they must be taught which included a lot of browbeating. Things are evolving at an ever increasing pace since the advent of instant communication. Not only that, but tools are also evolving. Forty years ago there was something like four basic tools and they were all carbon steel. Then some high speed steel and round stock for gouges and now even more exotic powdered metal steel alloys. Cubic boron nitride sharpening wheels, diamond hones, video cameras for "seeing" where a cutter is inside a closed hollowform, and lathe accessories for every imaginable purpose are showing up faster and faster.

... FWIW, the event that prompted this question is that I had a conversation yesterday with a senior member of my local woodturning club. He told me some things that I had a hard time agreeing with. While I respect his experience, what he said involved safety issues that contradicted some things that I've picked up from other reliable sources (e.g. "Getting Started in Woodturning" by John Kelsey). He also told me to stop using a skew because it "isn't necessary", although I've found it to be a very useful tool for spindle work. I consider the conversation to be mostly civil, but he was a bit patronizing and very dismissive of any approach other than his own.....

See my previous comment about conflicting information. A skew isn't essential, but as Al said, it may be the best tool for certain things. If you learn to use the skew well, you can probably use any tool well. However, the skew is the most unforgiving tool that I know of when it comes to not using it correctly. BTW, there is more than one "correct" way to use the skew, but there are many more incorrect ways to use it.

When it comes to safety, I don't know of anybody who was injured from being too safe. Use your head when it comes to safety. A piece of wood flying off the lathe can be lethal. If something that you are about to do seems unsafe, then it is unsafe. Stop and assess the situation. We don't want to see you as the star of a YouTube Epic Fail video. There are no Oscars or Emmy's given out for those.

I think that Jamie gave a good answer regarding your feeling about patronizing help. An experienced turner offering help isn't intimately familiar with your experience level and may gear their response to cover all bases. A few days ago a new turner on another forum blasted me for patronizing him. That's the problem with written English ... especially in a forum where posts are written quickly while thinking on the fly ... very frequently, the reader sees the same words from a different perspective than the writer intended.

... If it matters, I've been turning for about a year and while I am humble enough to know that I still have A LOT to learn, I'm also not a total newbie....

I still am learning and I think that the more we know, the more we recognize how much more we still want to learn. It's just about impossible to say where somebody stands in their woodturning journey based on calendar time. Take things to your club meetings and ask for a serious in-depth critique from those who you regard as accomplished. A good critique will help you grow, but it isn't easy to hear somebody point out problems or suggest things that need further development. A good critique won't tell you HOW to do something or HOW it should look, but it might just help you towards developing the voice that you want to find.

 

[Barry Crowder]

Again, Thank you!

I want to again say "thank you" to the thoughtful and constructive comments to my inquiry.

As an individual with limited experience, I start with only one narrow perspective (i.e. my own), and you've all added to that by sharing your comments with me. I appreciate the time and effort that each of you put into your response. I AM taking them to heart, and no doubt they will help me throughout my woodturing journey.

 

[Tom Beatty]

finding your own path

Over the years I have watched lotsvof videos, read lots of books, attended classes from sone of the best turners and had discussiins with several other well known turners. I have been told that; you should only use a conventional grind, you should only use my grind, you should use an irish grind and my irish grind is better than everyone elses. I have been told that freehand grinding is the only way to grind tools and others say you should use a jig since it is more accurate and consistent. I have been told you should only hold wood with faceplates and never use a chuck and my others you should only use a faceplate for very large turnings and you should use a chuck because it is more versatile faster. I have been told various speeds to use from safe speeds to very unsafe speeds. I have also been told that skews are the best tool available to you and I have been told to never use a skew.
All of this can get confusing, since the people making these statements are all excellent turners and truly believe that their way is the correct way, and for them their methods work. But each turner has to decide what us best for him/her. And I think that as you learn and get more experience you find that each of these lessons has its place and knowing them makes you a better turner. I have learned something from every book, lesson, discussion that helps me decide how to approach a new turning. I am in my 70's and I trully hope I never stop learning.