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Filling a hole

Linda Jarvis

Linda Jarvis

Joined
Jul 17, 2018
Messages
8
Likes
7
Location
Lakeland, FL
I am experimenting with a big scrap of wood I had in the shop. I have it attached with a woodworm screw in my Nova chuck. I am trying to approximate a wing bowl, and so far I think I'm having some success. As I have progressed in turning, I have found a bark inclusion(?) that is a pretty deep hole:

20180721_155818.jpg 20180721_155844.jpg My question is: should I fill it, or try and keep turning to up with a hole in the finished piece? I guess I would just have to keep my tools super sharp to do the latter. If I try and fill it, what should I use? I've never attempted anything like this before.
 
Can’t see much from your photo to show the overall integrity of the bark inclusion.

First think about safety (you probably have verified it is safe doesn’t hurt to do it twice)
It is important to be sure that the extent of bark inclusion does not pose a risk of the piece splitting apart.
If it is surrounded by solid wood you do not plan to cut through it will most likely hold together unless there is some defect you don’t see.
The other issue is to be sure the bark inclusion does not compromise the safety of how you plan to hold it on the lathe.

I don’t generally fill bark inclusions the holes add to the piece.
But that is the makers choice.
If you don’t want a hole Coffee grounds and epoxy or CA make a nice filler that matches bark well.
 
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I typically use Jimmy Clewes bronze metallic filler mixed in epoxy. I work with Mesquite a lot and often deal with holes and (amazingly complex) worm tunnel systems. I leave them unfilled if I can, but if I'm worried about the integrity of the wood, I'll fill it with metallic epoxy. This one had lots of epoxy filler in it.
20180528_171113_grande.jpg 20180528_171246_grande.jpg 20180528_171127_grande.jpg
 
Is that the tailstock we are looking at? If so, that means you will be turning a tenon on that knot and bark inclusion to turn the inside? Don't do it! It will be very unsafe.
 
Linda,
Pardon me in advance for being presumptuous.

One of the best ways to speed up the process of skill development is to work with an experienced turner. A half day with a mentor can take months off the learning curve, and you've always got someone to ask the questions you are encountering. Not that the folks here mind, but most would agree that in person help can be invaluable and we often suggest finding that person through your local AAW chapter. Since Al Hockenbery also lives in Lakeland, it would seem you have easy access to a very experienced teacher, whether you join a club or not.
 
I would like to see a view that shows the who thing in order to see how that inclusion fits in with the overall piece. In addition to the bark inclusions I see a lot of rotted spots that also might affect the integrity. From what I see so far I would be hesitant to use it.
 
As Bill stated a better photo of the entire wood billet would provide a better perspective of the piece. On some pieces that have a lot of character you need to weigh the amount of effort that will go into the piece versus what you get in return. If the wood shows a lot of potential then taking the time to help it along might be warranted. For the beginner it is more rewarding to turn a good piece of quality wood that does not need constant repairs to complete the project. Fixing and filling voids slows the process when what you really want is quality time on the lathe with your tools learning tool technique.

Sometimes you are better off looking at the piece of wood and deciding what form will best bring out the potential with what you have to start with, Too many people will grab a piece of wood and try to force it to be a bowl or vase when it might be better turning it into a round ball or plate. Some voids and inclusions can really bring out the character and natural beauty of the wood, that usually requires skill, patience, and safe techniques to work with a piece that has artistic potential but could also possibly fly apart on the lathe which is not a good thing. One bad tool catch can cause a wood piece that contains voids and inclusions to potentially come apart if there are enough flaws in the wood.

For every beginner, having a wood billet come off the lathe can be a learning experience or turn into a really bad day when luck runs out. Not a good way to start a new hobby, learn the proper use of your tools first before you take on risky pieces that require extra measures. Some turners will use additional equipment on the lathe and use additional measures on the wood billet that has voids and inclusions to work around. I have watched a number of videos on YouTube that display people turning such pieces, some of these videos are helpful and while many videos should be banned. Everyone starts out turning wood pieces and getting bad tool catches before you finally learn the proper technique for each individual tool. If a wood blank is not properly mounted and supported a good catch can remove it instantly from the bowl chuck or face plate. A 10-pound billet turning at 2000 rpms has a large amount of energy built up into the piece that gets released instantly when it comes loose from the mounting. The tail stock is your friend use it on every piece as long as possible until you learn the limits of your equipment and your skill level of the tools is attained.
 
You're not presumptuous at all. I actually have taken about 5 days of private instruction, and learned oodles, but I ran out of money. I do belong to a local club, and the folks there are fantastic. But I don't really know anyone that well, and find this forum very useful for questions I need more or less immediate answers to.
 
Presumptuous, not really...it takes hundreds of hours turning on a lathe to become somewhat of a skilled turner. With all of the different tools each one requires time to master and repetition to retain the technique learned. For most wood turners time is the main challenge for learning and mastering the craft. Watching a professional using tools makes the craft look simple, learning and applying each technique with the tools takes time, dedication and repetition which few people enjoy these days. What's the old saying in the wood turning world...Life is too short for turning crappy wood. Lucky for us wood blanks grow on trees.
 
Bill Boehme said:
I would like to see a view that shows the who thing in order to see how that inclusion fits in with the overall piece. In addition to the bark inclusions I see a lot of rotted spots that also might affect the integrity. From what I see so far I would be hesitant to use it.
Click to expand...
I agree with Bill. And he has many years experience. I came to that conclusion within seconds, a gut feeling. And I didnt read any of the answers before looking at the pictures and making my own decision...
 
That is a really cool looking piece. Great job meeting the challenge. I have a question about the thickness of the piece. I'm not sure, but from the pic it looks about an inch thick. I have a friend who turns 'thick' bowels like that. I'm curious about why you left it so thick, I always thought pieces got turned as thin as possible within reason. I know it can be a matter of preference, and I haven't turned any yet. Just want to know for when I 'get there'. Thanks!
 
Thin is only for woodturners to impress one another with their turning skills. What impresses the recipient is a thickness that is appropriate for the size, shape, and style. That could be two inches thick or 1/16 inch thick. Don't let yourself become boxed by arbitrary rules.
 
I agree with Bill. Like Vicki, I spent a lot of time worrying over making bowls thin enough. Along the way, many members on this forum pointed out that customers like some heft in the bowls they buy. Personally, I think everybody should turn one really, really thin bowl, just for the experience and mental pat on the back.

While personal preference is the right decider for thickness, don't you also think there is a certain thickness, proportional to diameter, that makes a utility bowl feel right? It should have the right sense of solid and substantial, without feeling like an anvil. Anyone want to suggest what those numbers might be?
 
Dean Center said:
I agree with Bill. Like Vicki, I spent a lot of time worrying over making bowls thin enough. Along the way, many members on this forum pointed out that customers like some heft in the bowls they buy. Personally, I think everybody should turn one really, really thin bowl, just for the experience and mental pat on the back.

While personal preference is the right decider for thickness, don't you also think there is a certain thickness, proportional to diameter, that makes a utility bowl feel right? It should have the right sense of solid and substantial, without feeling like an anvil. Anyone want to suggest what those numbers might be?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't pay much attention to any such rule/suggestion/guideline even if it did exist. Any thoughts about this are too variable to be of much use except for possibly the most basic elements of teaching a brand new turner the basics of making something such as a simple bowl form. I would avoid telling a student that a bowl has to have a certain thickness. Good form and fairly uniform wall thickness are more important. The uniform wall thickness really isn't a style element as much as a practicality of dealing with wood movement to avoid cracking. Some other things that are purely practical and not related to artistic consideration:
  • if making a mortar and pestle, the mortar wall thickness might be as much as 1½" thick
  • a lampshade could possibly be less than ⅛" thick
  • for piercing a thickness of 1/16" is about right.
I think that you have to develop a sixth sense of proportion and form. This requires experience. Experience comes from making pieces that could stand some improvement in one or more areas.
 
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