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Few questions.

pyrocasto

pyrocasto

Joined
Apr 6, 2006
Messages
63
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Location
Hendersonville, NC
Ok, I've turned a couple piece from my apple stash so far and could use a few tips.

I boiled a plate, which gave me zero cracks but quite a bit of warpage. I also noticed the sap wood recieved quite a bit of pink into it from the heart. I've just finished this salad bowl now and would like to keep the contrast of sapwood and heart, and get the least warpage possable.
(bowl wetted for photo)
http://www.woodturner.org/photopost...fc66f734ee806d3e935c05ae6ae09c&sort=1&cat=500

http://www.woodturner.org/photopost...e935c05ae6ae09c&sort=1&size=big&cat=500&page=

Questions:
Does boiling it take away from the color since this is the finished bowl and not rough turned?

What kind of soap should I use if I use the soap method to keep out cracks, as I dont have a Costco anywhere near here?

Does placing the bowl in a bag with shavings reduce warpage any, or is it mainly to slow dry it and reduce cracking?

If I can get it into a kiln should I just do that?

Would boiling it get rid of the dark color, as it almost looks like oil stain? I dont want any of those colors to be boiled away on accident.

Thanks,
 
The search for the grail goes on in spite of new movies and interminable "analyses" of who, what and where. For turners it's the quick dry. I've tried out every fad for the last couple-three decades, and what I've come up with is:

Water-soluble extractives will move to the sapwood given a chance. Easy to prove by looking at the down side of a cherry log after a few months. Expect steaming (microwaving), boiling and soaking to do the same.

Wood warps. It warps according to its density, ring interval and orientation. Certain woods like apple twist as they grow, and are a PITA to split or dry without degrade. Pruned trees are loaded with "reaction" wood because the orchardist tries to defy gravity in search of light, and are thus especially prone to this condition.

Wood cracks when the surface dries too much ahead of the interior. Control of moisture loss can be accomplished while leave the potions on the shelf. Coating, bagging, shavings are all great at minimizing the differential, but can mold things up on susceptible woods. You're living in a kiln. If you exercise the humidity control the kiln operator does, you can dry anything as crack and warp free as is possible short of "bulking" soaks.

Learn to love warp and turn thin if you seek the combination of rapid drying and crack-free surface. Expect losses where things change direction often.
 
Questions

Questions:
Does boiling it take away from the color since this is the finished bowl and not rough turned?

Boiling will cause a certain amount of colour (UK spelling!) fade, but, as ever, this varies in different woods.


What kind of soap should I use if I use the soap method to keep out cracks, as I dont have a Costco anywhere near here?

Ordinary cheap household detergeant will do.

Does placing the bowl in a bag with shavings reduce warpage any, or is it mainly to slow dry it and reduce cracking?

There is no real way to reduce warping during the drying period for a roughed out bowl. In fact, the warping is expected and prefered to splitting or cracking. Providing you leave a thick enough wall (10% of your finished diameter, say) you should be able to make the bowl true when you finish turn it.

If I can get it into a kiln should I just do that?

If you have access to a kiln, either a small home-built one, or a commercial kiln, and it either costs you nothing, or perhaps a bowl or two in return, then that's a better course of action, of course. But if you have to pay for the kilning it is unlikely to be cost effective unless you are kiln drying a small mountain of wood.

Would boiling it get rid of the dark color, as it almost looks like oil stain? I dont want any of those colors to be boiled away on accident.

Again, boiling can cause the colours to leach out, and there'sno way you can control which colour will be removed or not. As with most methods of force drying wood there are compromises to be made/overcome which you have to live with. There aren't any real shortcuts. Every method has it's +s and -s and the trick is to choose the most appropriate for you and the wood in question. This is an art in itself and one I imagine we all struggle with constantly.

I've no doubt you'll receive lots of feedback and suggestions and hope this little bit helps some.

Andy
 
Thanks for the answers. I'm stuck between soaping and boiling at the moment.

If I try soap, is there a length of time I need to let it dry before I apply finish to it, or will a few days air dry be fine?

I'm going to set my boiled plate out in the sun for a bit so it will darken up some. Hopefully the color difference will be un-noticable then from boiling.

I think I will start boiling rough outs, then finish turn them. I can do it all in the same day and the finish turning will get rid of the color dullness that boiling might add.
 
Careful if Boiling.

Chris, if you plan to boil your roughed bowls be careful. You may not be able to do the whole process in one day. It is my understanding from fairly extensive reading (no actual experience), that you need to put the bowl in the water when both are at ambient temperature and bring them to boil together. Boiling time varies depending on thickness. The bowl is then to be cooled by leaving it in the water until they both reach ambient temp (cool off). The blank then needs to dry out to finish turn. This process is supposed to speed drying and reduce cracking. I believe there is more info at www.woodcentral.com in the articles section. More research on your part may be a good starting point. A major safety concern is that the container used for boiling be larger in diameter than the bowl. 😱

Hope this is helpful as that is my intention. Good luck and let us see the finished products!
 
Chris,
Be real careful about putting any bowl, dish, plate or cumquat in the sun in hopes of drying it. Sun will not be your friend. In the wettest corner of our land grows Pacific Arbutus more commonly known as Madrone. I have turned a lot of it and it needs boiling. I follow the others who discovered that you bring to boil slowly, boil for two to five hours depending on the thickness and diameter of the wood, let cool overnight and then I've put blanks into denatured alcohol overnight. Then bag the outside and dry in the shade for a month before finish turning and sanding and finishing. I've also boiled apple blanks to relieve the tension and soaked in DNA without cracks and checking. Bagging the outside seems to help the drying become more uniform to stave off cracks. Warping is inevitable so follow the 10% wall to diameter ratio to have enough material left to return it round or as MM suggests turn real thin while green and watch it move.
Good luck
Roger Dunn
 
Hey Chris,

If you're looking for reduced or prevented warping, turn MDF. Grown wood is gonna warp as it dries. No way for it not too since you're looking at changes in volume of the drying cells that will vary depending on grain orientation, wood type, phase of the moon, etc. If you want to eliminate warp, ya gotta turn it thick, let it dry, and return it.

My vote it for the "turn it thin and let it move" method. With practice, you can predict movement to a degree and use it. With figured , crotch, and branch wood, you can get some interesting effects.

To darken, skip the sun and try a light mixture of lye (red devil, available at your local supermarket). Be aware that you'll have to resand cause the water will raise the grain.

Dietrich
 
Go with deitrich's advice.

I'd rather turn than boil any day.
Instead of spending time boiling turn another bowl. If you loose 1/4 of your bowls you'll still have more than if you invest the time boiling.

I know it is humid in NC. Slow the drying of you wet bowls by leaving them in a humid spot maybe inside a box or a paper bag. folks that live in dry climate can dry bowls slowy so they have to do thing like boil. Humidity is our friend.

Apple is going to move a lot. You can't stop the warp and if you don't get an even wall thickness the piece will crack due to uneven drying. The more you turn the better you get and the walls will be more even.

Boiling robs you of turning time.

Happy Turning,
Al
 
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Thanks for the tips, I will try the lye mixture thing on some scrap wood and see what turns up. Just soak it for a bit in the mixture I guess?

As for boiling time, it really doesnt hold me up much as I'm just sitting on the internet as it boils like usual. Since I'm not real experienced my bowls take me quite a few hours to turn so I'd rather spend some time saving the good ones then losing 1/4 or so. 🙁
 
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