Has anyone had any experience with the Rim Chuck by Chick and Duck Mfg?
It seems awfully expensive for what it is. Pro's / Con's?
It seems awfully expensive for what it is. Pro's / Con's?
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Experience with the Rim Chuck
- Thread starter jimbob91577
- Start date
Google "Longworth Chuck" and you'll find plans on how to build one yourself.
The pros of that option are lower cost and the cons are the time involved and quality depends on your skill.
I found that they (longworth type) are not very useful for out of round turnings. The "jumbo" type jaws for Stronghold chucks (similar stuff available for other chucks) provides a means to grip out of round items. I personally prefer the jumbo jaws
Ed
The pros of that option are lower cost and the cons are the time involved and quality depends on your skill.
I found that they (longworth type) are not very useful for out of round turnings. The "jumbo" type jaws for Stronghold chucks (similar stuff available for other chucks) provides a means to grip out of round items. I personally prefer the jumbo jaws
Ed
The Chick and Duck site is currently down.......
Can anyone provide me with the cost and capacity of the C&D rim chuck?
I purchased my Jumbo Jaws for the Stronghold chuck long before I was aware of the Longworth design, and have been very happy with it's use.
Although I haven't used the Longworth design, I'm not really seeing any advantage over the Stronghold Mega Jaws.....Is there any advantage?.....or is the Longworth just another way of "skinnin' the cat? I do see a possible disadvantage, though.....It seems to me that the key operated, gear driven, scroll design of the Stronghold might provide a more powerful and positive grip than the Longworth design......but, I say that in a theoretical sense, not from actual experience with the Longworth.
Slightly out of round roughed bowls are no problem on the Stronghold w/Mega jaws using the standard, equally spaced rubber grippers.....there is some amount of give and take in the rubber itself. It does have the four slots, giving it ability to grip odd shapes, or badly warped bowl blanks......they are not all that easy to use, if you intend to get an exactly centered bowl bottom.....but, do-able.
The best way to grip out of round blanks, is to chuck it up using the original tenon you used before seasoning......then true just enough of the rim to allow a positive grip from the grippers.....and at the same time it will be necessary to re-turn a flat rim surface to solidly face against the Mega jaws. At that point, it's a snap to re-true the tenon, or do whatever you intend to do to the bottom. Re-chucking again means that you might lose an exact concentric match between base and top of the bowl, but at this point, if you have left yourself some room for this, it's no problem to re-true the rim and turn the bowl to a finished thickness.
otis of cologne
Can anyone provide me with the cost and capacity of the C&D rim chuck?
I purchased my Jumbo Jaws for the Stronghold chuck long before I was aware of the Longworth design, and have been very happy with it's use.
Although I haven't used the Longworth design, I'm not really seeing any advantage over the Stronghold Mega Jaws.....Is there any advantage?.....or is the Longworth just another way of "skinnin' the cat? I do see a possible disadvantage, though.....It seems to me that the key operated, gear driven, scroll design of the Stronghold might provide a more powerful and positive grip than the Longworth design......but, I say that in a theoretical sense, not from actual experience with the Longworth.
Slightly out of round roughed bowls are no problem on the Stronghold w/Mega jaws using the standard, equally spaced rubber grippers.....there is some amount of give and take in the rubber itself. It does have the four slots, giving it ability to grip odd shapes, or badly warped bowl blanks......they are not all that easy to use, if you intend to get an exactly centered bowl bottom.....but, do-able.
The best way to grip out of round blanks, is to chuck it up using the original tenon you used before seasoning......then true just enough of the rim to allow a positive grip from the grippers.....and at the same time it will be necessary to re-turn a flat rim surface to solidly face against the Mega jaws. At that point, it's a snap to re-true the tenon, or do whatever you intend to do to the bottom. Re-chucking again means that you might lose an exact concentric match between base and top of the bowl, but at this point, if you have left yourself some room for this, it's no problem to re-true the rim and turn the bowl to a finished thickness.
otis of cologne
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Going from memory, the price of the rim chuck ranged from $200 - $300 depending on the size. The largest I remember was for a 16" swing so the max capacity would be less than 16". Probably 12" - 14".
The advantage of the longworth style is that you don't have to screw and unscrew grippers to adjust the capacity (or at least not as much screwing / unscrewing depending on the design). The grippers move in / out in unison as the plates are rotated (the smoothness of this movement depends on design and skill of the maker). Some of the longworth chucks I've seen pretty much required three hands to use (which is a problem for me).
The chick and duck rim chuck may have solved the three handed problem with their plier device, but the price has kept it out of the hands of anyone I know.
I would rather put $300 towards a vacuum system than a rim chuck. But that's just me.
Ed
The advantage of the longworth style is that you don't have to screw and unscrew grippers to adjust the capacity (or at least not as much screwing / unscrewing depending on the design). The grippers move in / out in unison as the plates are rotated (the smoothness of this movement depends on design and skill of the maker). Some of the longworth chucks I've seen pretty much required three hands to use (which is a problem for me).
The chick and duck rim chuck may have solved the three handed problem with their plier device, but the price has kept it out of the hands of anyone I know.
I would rather put $300 towards a vacuum system than a rim chuck. But that's just me.
Ed
Richard Baker
RIP
Just a note on Longworth chucks that might, or not, be of interest. The designs I have seen have finger holes in the discs, which do not seem terribly handy. If both discs are made from 3/4" thick material, one can drill a series of radial holes (say, 1/4" dia.) into the rims of both discs and use a couple of steel rods like "tommy bars" in the holes. The chuck can be held open or closed (depending upon inside or outside grip) with only one hand, while the other hand performs some other function.
I made my Longworths with thumb holes in the bowl-side disk, and half-holes on the rim of the back disk, to enable one-handed tightening of the scroll. The links in my other recent post on this subject ( http://www.aawforum.org/vbforum/showthread.php?t=5240 ) have limited image access to visitors. This should be better: http://n-fl-woodturners.org/images/2007-07/2007-07-09.jpg The four-button version didn't work at all well for holding thin-wall bowls (too high concentrated stress), but it works OK for turning large rosettes from a square blank - bigger than available via standard rosette cutters. BTW, the "finish" on these is talcum powder for lubrication.
The Chick & Duck tool doesn't have quite the same scroll geometry as Longworth; thus it needs the pliers and a locknut, and probably three or four hands for engagement.
Joe
The Chick & Duck tool doesn't have quite the same scroll geometry as Longworth; thus it needs the pliers and a locknut, and probably three or four hands for engagement.
Joe
Here's a snapshot of their website from October 2007. $200-$320 seems like a lot to me, given how simple they are to make. But I think the same about the spindle steady, and those seem to sell just fine.
Vacuum chucks require a stiff investment. I've got both a vacuum chuck and the cole jaws for the nova chucks. Now I vastly prefer the vacuum chuck, bit the reason I avoid the cole jaws is the effort of setting them up. And there are times that the size or style of the piece make it impossible to use a vacuum chuck. If I had the money I would probably buy the rim chuck as a time and convenience saver.
Unfortunately I'm lazy and poor...
Unfortunately I'm lazy and poor...
Several months ago Richard Benham, the gentleman who developed the Rim Chuck passed away after a long illness, he used to attend our club meetings, The Northwest Woodturners, since his passing I'm not certain as to whether the company is still up and running, I know that he had a partner but haven't seen or heard much, as a matter of fact I haven't even seen his product advertised in the various woodturning magazines like it once was, so not really certain what is going on with them. If anyone really wanted to find out, let me know and i'll look into it further since it is a fairly local company. Hope this helps. Thanks, Fred
Fred, I had heard his children were going to try running the company (I met one of them). But they might be trying it as an "on-the-side" business.
LOL, I misread that as "Chuck and Duck Mfg"!
Only if they are manufacturing grenades too
I think you are better off, shifting to a different method of holding the bowl on. Check out the link below that has a picture of Bill Grumbine's bowl chuck jig. He used to have directions on his old site, but that has been taken down.
I have jumbo jaws for my strong hold also, but almost never use them. The system pictured at the link although it will take a little while to setup, probably won't take longer than with jumbo jaws, and your bowl won't go flying. natural edge may be an issue, but it would also be an issue with Longworth or jumbo jaws.
http://www.woodezine.com/07_2004/0704_turningtidbits.html
I have jumbo jaws for my strong hold also, but almost never use them. The system pictured at the link although it will take a little while to setup, probably won't take longer than with jumbo jaws, and your bowl won't go flying. natural edge may be an issue, but it would also be an issue with Longworth or jumbo jaws.
http://www.woodezine.com/07_2004/0704_turningtidbits.html
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Howdy Brodie......
Thanks for posting those pictures of Grumbine's bowl chuck.......
You're right about the Longworth, or Stronghold Mega Jaws being a problem with natural edge bowls......
but....
I don't see why Bill Grumbine's chuck couldn't be adapted for use with natural edge bowls. Off hand, it seems that it might be possible, by using something like a rubber ball to press into the interior of the natural edge bowl......hmmmmmm, just might work!
I'm sure someone here has tried something like this......any comments?
thanx
otis of cologne
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I don't bother any more, but when I did, I reversed into an appropriately sized tapered disk which helped center and steady with the help of my tailstock and the centering mark I left below. Regular rim bowls go to a plate and hot glue or tape.
You can get more elaborate with inflatable toys, but they are less certain to center properly. The O ring allows you to escape the final curved knife trim that you need when you use the tailstock.
Chick and Duck Mfg. / Rim Chuck Status
I thought it might be a good idea to stick my head into this thread and give everyone an update on the status of Chick & Duck Mfg., and the Rim Chuck.
As has been mentioned, Richard Benham, our founder and the inventor of the Rim Chuck, passed away in May after 10 years of fighting against coronary artery disease.
With his passing, I've had to take a long hard look at the business and the product we sell. After a long decision making process, I've reached the decision that the Rim Chuck would be better manufactured and marketed by someone other than myself.
With that decision made, we have officially put the designs and pending patents for all models of the Rim Chuck on the block for sale. The Rim Chuck was my father's passion, and a very good product in my opinion, and I think it remains a solid and viable tool. My hope is that someone with the capital and vision to produce and market it will pick it up and run with it. So, if you are interested, keep your eyes open. Hopefully, it will be back on the market soon!
I'd also like to respond to the some of the comments earlier in the thread . . .
1. The issue of pricing on the Rim Chuck has plagued us from day one. It is not a cheap tool, but it sold remarkably well. One of my father's abiding beliefs was that he would not cut corners to reduce the cost of the tool, especially if it reduced the quality of the product. The mandrels were made of high quality, zinc plated steel. The plates were hard anodized aircraft aluminum. Everything was made to be strong, durable, and have excellent fit and finish. Unfortunately, due to the scale we were forced to work at (our entire company's work force consisted of my father and myself), we could not realize the same discounts on materials that a larger manufacturer might get, and this continued to plague us as fuel prices went up. Shipping steel is not cheap . . . 🙂 Believe me, we were not gouging anyone with the prices we charged. As the appointed bookkeeper, I can assure you of THAT.
2. The Longworth Chuck. This is a comparison that was frequent and inevitable. I'll start by saying that my father came up with the concept of his Rim Chuck, and had it prototyped and well into engineering before he even became aware of the Longworth design. It is not a Longworth chuck. My father was able to explain it much better than I, but there are significant differences. Most obviously is the 6 jaw as opposed to the 4 jaw design. The geometry of the arcs in the plates was very carefully laid out, to provide a solid hold that was also easy to operate, and totally self centering. After some initial manufacturing issues, dealing mainly with the outsourced machining of some of our parts, the chuck was able to be easily adjusted by hand, and to provide a solid grip. Other than fasteners, virtually every part was designed and custom built for the chuck to provide the easiest and safest use. We do have patents pending on many of the elements in the Rim Chuck, indicating significant and important differences in design.
3. Three or four hands . . . :cool2: Yeah. One issue that many folks had was how many theoretical "hands" it took to get it set up. We ruminated and perseverated on the process for a long time, and even redesigned some of the tools to improve the process. For myself, I prefer to lock my spindle while attaching a bowl to the chuck, much like I would when I try to remove a faceplate after turning a bowl. With the spindle locked, I can hold the bowl to the chuck while I turn the back plate with the tightening tool, getting a very tight hold. I then tighten the lock nut as tight as I can by hand, so that plates don't slip, and then finish tightening the lock nut with the wrench. We also included a tommy bar that could be used to hold the chuck in place, either with your hand or by resting it against the ways.
Anyway, I wanted to let folks know where things stand. I love the product, and I loved working with my father to realize a dream he had. It is my fervent hope that it will continue, with someone with the time and resources to bring it to a larger market.
Chris Benham
Acting General Manager
Chick and Duck Mfg., LLC
PO Box 903
Newberg, OR 97132
chris@chickandduckmfg.com
I thought it might be a good idea to stick my head into this thread and give everyone an update on the status of Chick & Duck Mfg., and the Rim Chuck.
As has been mentioned, Richard Benham, our founder and the inventor of the Rim Chuck, passed away in May after 10 years of fighting against coronary artery disease.
With his passing, I've had to take a long hard look at the business and the product we sell. After a long decision making process, I've reached the decision that the Rim Chuck would be better manufactured and marketed by someone other than myself.
With that decision made, we have officially put the designs and pending patents for all models of the Rim Chuck on the block for sale. The Rim Chuck was my father's passion, and a very good product in my opinion, and I think it remains a solid and viable tool. My hope is that someone with the capital and vision to produce and market it will pick it up and run with it. So, if you are interested, keep your eyes open. Hopefully, it will be back on the market soon!
I'd also like to respond to the some of the comments earlier in the thread . . .
1. The issue of pricing on the Rim Chuck has plagued us from day one. It is not a cheap tool, but it sold remarkably well. One of my father's abiding beliefs was that he would not cut corners to reduce the cost of the tool, especially if it reduced the quality of the product. The mandrels were made of high quality, zinc plated steel. The plates were hard anodized aircraft aluminum. Everything was made to be strong, durable, and have excellent fit and finish. Unfortunately, due to the scale we were forced to work at (our entire company's work force consisted of my father and myself), we could not realize the same discounts on materials that a larger manufacturer might get, and this continued to plague us as fuel prices went up. Shipping steel is not cheap . . . 🙂 Believe me, we were not gouging anyone with the prices we charged. As the appointed bookkeeper, I can assure you of THAT.
2. The Longworth Chuck. This is a comparison that was frequent and inevitable. I'll start by saying that my father came up with the concept of his Rim Chuck, and had it prototyped and well into engineering before he even became aware of the Longworth design. It is not a Longworth chuck. My father was able to explain it much better than I, but there are significant differences. Most obviously is the 6 jaw as opposed to the 4 jaw design. The geometry of the arcs in the plates was very carefully laid out, to provide a solid hold that was also easy to operate, and totally self centering. After some initial manufacturing issues, dealing mainly with the outsourced machining of some of our parts, the chuck was able to be easily adjusted by hand, and to provide a solid grip. Other than fasteners, virtually every part was designed and custom built for the chuck to provide the easiest and safest use. We do have patents pending on many of the elements in the Rim Chuck, indicating significant and important differences in design.
3. Three or four hands . . . :cool2: Yeah. One issue that many folks had was how many theoretical "hands" it took to get it set up. We ruminated and perseverated on the process for a long time, and even redesigned some of the tools to improve the process. For myself, I prefer to lock my spindle while attaching a bowl to the chuck, much like I would when I try to remove a faceplate after turning a bowl. With the spindle locked, I can hold the bowl to the chuck while I turn the back plate with the tightening tool, getting a very tight hold. I then tighten the lock nut as tight as I can by hand, so that plates don't slip, and then finish tightening the lock nut with the wrench. We also included a tommy bar that could be used to hold the chuck in place, either with your hand or by resting it against the ways.
Anyway, I wanted to let folks know where things stand. I love the product, and I loved working with my father to realize a dream he had. It is my fervent hope that it will continue, with someone with the time and resources to bring it to a larger market.
Chris Benham
Acting General Manager
Chick and Duck Mfg., LLC
PO Box 903
Newberg, OR 97132
chris@chickandduckmfg.com
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
For alternative methods for reverse turning bowls check out the tips section of our club website. I wrote this up a few years ago because this question comes up a lot.
http://www.cumberlandwoodturners.com/tips.asp
http://www.cumberlandwoodturners.com/tips.asp
It sure seems like the cheapest and most reusable are the longworth style chucks - of which the Rim Chuck seems to be the most similar.
I can understand Mr Benham's comments about not wanting to sacrifice quality by using cheaper materials, however I'm not sure the amature wood turner was their target audience for their product offering. I really could have benefited from a "lesser quality/lesser cost" version of this product. In any event, I'm sorry to see their company is in the situation it is in. It is so hard for any business to compete, let alone a startup "Mom & Pop" or in this case "Pop & Son" business.
I'm in what I'm sure is not a unique situation, I have a chainsaw, a 14" bandsaw, a compound miter saw, a grinder, a mini lathe, and a fullsize lathe. That's my shop - I don't have a lot of jigs, don't have a lot of skill with flatwork or making jigs, and am looking for something that would be great for holding bowls for finishing the bottom - and what sounds ideal is the longworth chuck.
I can understand Mr Benham's comments about not wanting to sacrifice quality by using cheaper materials, however I'm not sure the amature wood turner was their target audience for their product offering. I really could have benefited from a "lesser quality/lesser cost" version of this product. In any event, I'm sorry to see their company is in the situation it is in. It is so hard for any business to compete, let alone a startup "Mom & Pop" or in this case "Pop & Son" business.
I'm in what I'm sure is not a unique situation, I have a chainsaw, a 14" bandsaw, a compound miter saw, a grinder, a mini lathe, and a fullsize lathe. That's my shop - I don't have a lot of jigs, don't have a lot of skill with flatwork or making jigs, and am looking for something that would be great for holding bowls for finishing the bottom - and what sounds ideal is the longworth chuck.
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
Jimbob Your scenario is what I'm running into in my classes more and more. Many older turners got in to turning after being in the flat wood working phase or were raised on the farm or worked on a car and had good mechanical skills. These people grew up working on machines so if a lathe doesn't work right they do the problem solving and fix it.
Newer turners may come to my classes with no mechanical or woodworking experience at all. it requires a different teaching and problem solving technique. We somehow need to learn to teach this. I find many turners who only have a lathe, chainsaw, grinder and bandsaw. This of course limits what options they have when it comes to building things like the Longworth chucks.
Our Club has started having tool making days. 2 years ago we made Longworth chucks in a guys shop. Last year I has some people out to mine to make small hollowing tools.
Find someone in your area who is a woodworker and see if they will help you make some of the odds and ends you need.
Newer turners may come to my classes with no mechanical or woodworking experience at all. it requires a different teaching and problem solving technique. We somehow need to learn to teach this. I find many turners who only have a lathe, chainsaw, grinder and bandsaw. This of course limits what options they have when it comes to building things like the Longworth chucks.
Our Club has started having tool making days. 2 years ago we made Longworth chucks in a guys shop. Last year I has some people out to mine to make small hollowing tools.
Find someone in your area who is a woodworker and see if they will help you make some of the odds and ends you need.