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End Grain Filling
- Thread starter jarmstr
- Start date
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
The best thing is to start with a much coarser grit and sand out the torn grain. It goes pretty fast if you start with 60 or 80 or even 40. However you can fill the grain any number of ways. Medium CA does good as well as 5 minute epoxy. I use a cabinet scraper to level the surface before final sanding because it will be harder than the wood and sand funny. You can fill it with wax either colored or natural. Put a layer of shellac over it to seal it before finishing.
Thick Lacquer or shellac will fill the pores. Put on a layer, let it dry, sand it back and put on another layer. You will eventually fill the grain this way and can then proceed with your finish. In fact just about any finish that has some body to it will work this way you just have to wait 24 hour or more for some finishes between coats.
By the way, a curved cabinet scraper works faster than sandpaper for removing badly torn areas.
Thick Lacquer or shellac will fill the pores. Put on a layer, let it dry, sand it back and put on another layer. You will eventually fill the grain this way and can then proceed with your finish. In fact just about any finish that has some body to it will work this way you just have to wait 24 hour or more for some finishes between coats.
By the way, a curved cabinet scraper works faster than sandpaper for removing badly torn areas.
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The real answer is one you already know, I'm sure. Present a well-sharpened tool properly. Even though willow and its cousins the poplars and cottonwood are interlocked and extremely soft grained, it can, and in my opinion should, be done that way. The one sharpening prior to the final pass is worth two grits, and on woods like maple and cherry, for instance, you spend more time trying to take out 80 grit scratches with 100 and then 100 with 150 than a beginning at 150 would do.
Help your case by not making too abrupt a transition at the bottom. Sweeping fair curves are easier to cut properly, and easier to sand, as well. A lot of relatively new turners favor almost straight-sided turnings, which can be a bugger to get right, when their frustration level would be much lower if they played it shallow and sweeping. Don't know the shape of your piece or your level of training, but good advice for anyone.
As to scrapers and willow, I couldn't ever make a scraper work properly, even on absolutely flat stuff, on wood as soft as willow. They work better on harder woods. Soft stuff crushes and tears, and the compressed areas are often revealed, as are heel bruises, when the finish is applied.
Filling with lacquer or shellac are death on sandpaper, but they do keep you from getting some tearout and heel crush, so you might want to try it, realizing that with wood as absorbent as willow, you might limit your choice of finish.
Help your case by not making too abrupt a transition at the bottom. Sweeping fair curves are easier to cut properly, and easier to sand, as well. A lot of relatively new turners favor almost straight-sided turnings, which can be a bugger to get right, when their frustration level would be much lower if they played it shallow and sweeping. Don't know the shape of your piece or your level of training, but good advice for anyone.
As to scrapers and willow, I couldn't ever make a scraper work properly, even on absolutely flat stuff, on wood as soft as willow. They work better on harder woods. Soft stuff crushes and tears, and the compressed areas are often revealed, as are heel bruises, when the finish is applied.
Filling with lacquer or shellac are death on sandpaper, but they do keep you from getting some tearout and heel crush, so you might want to try it, realizing that with wood as absorbent as willow, you might limit your choice of finish.
I have to agree with the advice given by John and Michael. When I just don't seem to get that final cut right on the softer woods and have to deal with the tear out I put some finish on (I use danish and tung oils a lot, mineral oil works too) and start with about a 60 grit and sand it to a dry condition. The dust and oil will hopefull cut the fibers and fill the pores with the slury produced.
Some turners I know also use a mix of wax and turpentine mixed to a buttery consistancy in place of the oils. Melt the wax in a double boiler and add the turp to the consistancy. Remember that it will firm up when it cools. DO THIS OUTSIDE!! 😱
You will fill up the sandpaper quickly. I usually bang it off on the tool rest but, still, it won't last too long on that wet surface. I usually have a supply of the courser worn grits just for this purpose because they're not good for anything else.
Some turners I know also use a mix of wax and turpentine mixed to a buttery consistancy in place of the oils. Melt the wax in a double boiler and add the turp to the consistancy. Remember that it will firm up when it cools. DO THIS OUTSIDE!! 😱
You will fill up the sandpaper quickly. I usually bang it off on the tool rest but, still, it won't last too long on that wet surface. I usually have a supply of the courser worn grits just for this purpose because they're not good for anything else.
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
Cyril was right. You can quite often put something like wax or sanding sealer on the wood before the final cut. Then like Micheal said use a really sharp tool. I turned some really bad willow and had similar problems to yours mostly on the side grain area of the bowls.
one trick I've learned in sanding wood that has had sealers such as lacquer etc. These clog sandpaper really fast. I've found that a mesh sandpaper like those they use for dry wall will sand without clogging. These only come in grits like course, and medium which doesn't tell you much. You can get better quality grits up to 600 from a company called Mirka. They sell Mirka Abranet mesh abrasives. I don't remember where I bought the last batch so you'll have to do a search.
one trick I've learned in sanding wood that has had sealers such as lacquer etc. These clog sandpaper really fast. I've found that a mesh sandpaper like those they use for dry wall will sand without clogging. These only come in grits like course, and medium which doesn't tell you much. You can get better quality grits up to 600 from a company called Mirka. They sell Mirka Abranet mesh abrasives. I don't remember where I bought the last batch so you'll have to do a search.
I turn a fair amount of cottonwood which has the same problem. I have found that saturating the piece with an extra thin sanding sealer (one part lacquer to two parts thinner) and making sure that I sharpen my tool very well before the final pass greatly reduce or eliminate the problem.
Thank you all
I would like to thank you all for the tips, advice and techniques. I have been a weekend turner for nearly 4 years. The first three was learning how to sharpen, use and shape consistently. My goal now is quality and now I realize just how much more I need to learn.
I will let you all know how things go.
I would like to thank you all for the tips, advice and techniques. I have been a weekend turner for nearly 4 years. The first three was learning how to sharpen, use and shape consistently. My goal now is quality and now I realize just how much more I need to learn.
I will let you all know how things go.
jarmstr,
I'm sure you'll be doing fine in short order. Keep your eye out for some of the harder woods to work with. Think free here. You may find it's that soft wood making you think your skills need work.
John L: thanks for the tip re: mesh sanding products. I just finished my new shop last fall and wondered what I'd do with the left over drywall sanding mesh. Palm of hand to side of head 😀
I'm sure you'll be doing fine in short order. Keep your eye out for some of the harder woods to work with. Think free here. You may find it's that soft wood making you think your skills need work.
John L: thanks for the tip re: mesh sanding products. I just finished my new shop last fall and wondered what I'd do with the left over drywall sanding mesh. Palm of hand to side of head 😀
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
Cyril I started using it when I had to do a bunch of Cocobolo pieces. It clogged my sandpaper really fast. I had some mesh paper a friend gave me so I tried it. It worked great. I have since used it many times for any project that gives me problems sanding. I've run out of it so I guess I'll be in the market again.
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Sanding mesh warning
Word of warning about using sanding mesh -- don't use it with the lathe running because it tends to be very grabby. While I was still a rank beginner, I was using some of the coarse stuff on a platter with the lathe running. The sanding screen grabbed the wood and wrung (wringed?) my right index finger about two full turns before kicking me backwards. Funny thing, there was no pain until after I got to the hospital, but my finger was pointing in a direction that I never expected to be pointing. The final outcome is that the finger is stiff and can only be bent about half as much as the other fingers. It may not seem like a big deal, but you don't realize how much you need the gripping power of that finger until you can't grip with it anymore. It was a heck of a way to get introduced to sanding at the beginning of my woodturning hobby, but it is a lesson that won't be forgotten.
Bill
Word of warning about using sanding mesh -- don't use it with the lathe running because it tends to be very grabby. While I was still a rank beginner, I was using some of the coarse stuff on a platter with the lathe running. The sanding screen grabbed the wood and wrung (wringed?) my right index finger about two full turns before kicking me backwards. Funny thing, there was no pain until after I got to the hospital, but my finger was pointing in a direction that I never expected to be pointing. The final outcome is that the finger is stiff and can only be bent about half as much as the other fingers. It may not seem like a big deal, but you don't realize how much you need the gripping power of that finger until you can't grip with it anymore. It was a heck of a way to get introduced to sanding at the beginning of my woodturning hobby, but it is a lesson that won't be forgotten.
Bill
Good advice Bill, too bad you learned the hard way. That advice also applies to all cloth backed sandpaper - which can get wrapped around your finger/hand and pull it into the piece.