Elbo 2 Hollowing System

[Monty Ivy]

Elbo 2 Hollowing System review. I purchased this tool from Tim Yoder via his website. Specifically this is the Advanced model. They are currently in stock.

Tim was great to work with and put my name on the waiting list as they were out of stock when I ordered. He was responsive and answered all of my questions before and after the sale.

The tool is #25 of nickel plated cold rolled steel. I can only describe it as heavy duty and ready for anything. I had some doubts about articulating arm tools centered around torque on the arm. This tool performs admirably with no noticeable deflection. It was very easy to setup and use. I tested the tool on a piece of knotty dry figured pecan. Cuts were easy to achieve with only finger tip control and there was little to no tear out observed.

Boring bar is 3/4" and accepts 3/8" round shank or 1/4" square cutting tools. In the future, a nice addition would be a dual use boring bar so that we could use a straight cutter on one end and an angled cutter on the other. For now there is only the straight option available. The kit included 2 HHS cutters 1/4" and 3/16". I was able to quickly and easily sharpen the cutter after use on the Sorby Pro-Edge using an 80 degree setting on the platform. A carbide cutting tool is available from Hunter tool systems.


One of the reason for choosing this tool over a captured bar is fitment on a short bed lathe. It comes with a universal bed mount and an ingenious angled under bed bar that will fit any lathe. It also comes with a stop collar so that the hight adjustment is repeatable.

The laser arm is also very easy to set up and use. The design is remarkable in two ways. The wire runs inside the arm protecting it from the spinning stuff. Secondly, there is a very easy to adjust laser mount included. In the future, I would like to see a ball bearing detent on the laser mast to help align the arm. The laser seems high quality and has a narrow beam.

 

[Monty Ivy]

Continued...





Also available on Tim's website are storage hooks. This makes it easy to store the tool away when not in use.

 

[Paul Lajoie]

The laser arm is also very easy to set up and use.

Is it possible to mount a camera instead of laser?

 

[Monty Ivy]

Is it possible to mount a camera instead of laser?

No doubt someone could figure it out. I would start by making a bracket similar to the one included sized for a specific camera.

 

[Doug Freeman]

Enjoy the new tool!

Just a warning - if you ever use a well thought out camera system (which is not expensive to put together), you’ll never go back to a laser - just sayin’…

 

[hockenbery]

One of the reason for choosing this tool over a captured bar is fitment on a short bed lathe. It comes with a universal bed mount and an ingenious angled under bed bar that will fit any lathe.

This isn’t totally true.
It is quite easy to use a Jamieson system on a short bed lathe. I’ve done a bunch of hollowing demos using the Jamison system on shortbed lathes. I have a length of 2x6 that I bolt to the end of the lathe and mount the backrest on the other end of the 2x6.
I also have the Simon hope that I now take to demos because it is a slightly faster setup for a new lathe

Nice looking system. You’ll enjoy it.

 

[Kevin Jenness]

In the future, a nice addition would be a dual use boring bar so that we could use a straight cutter on one end and an angled cutter on the other.

Lyle Jamieson has a double ended bar and cutter assemblies that are quite versatile. Jamieson hollowing tools

 

[Bill Blasic]

I tried the camera system on one of my hollowing systems and found little difference between that and a laser. I stuck with the laser, no wires and no screen. I get to look at the piece when hollowing.

 

[Kevin Jenness]

I prefer my video system as it requires adjustment only when changing or repositioning the cutting tool. The laser requires frequent fiddling to keep the dot tangent to the cutter tip. To each his own.

 

[hockenbery]

I much prefer video over laser.

I used the laser for 15 years and was quite good at it. For my southwest forms I used a mirror see the laser on the bottom of the forms. Changed the dot to match the cutting location 3-4 time going around the inside curve.
I had this unwarranted anxiety when I got near to point of changing the dot. I knew I could take several more cuts from a logical perspective but the emotional anxiety would buildup.
Switching to video was a surprising increase in confidence and eliminating the anxiety. I was extremely confident and successful hollowing with a laser. So the increase in confidence was amazing to me.
A side benefit is it works on the backside of wide forms

 

[Tom Lucas]

The Elbo 2 has two support points (base plus tool rest). This would seem to require more bed length than the Trent Bosch System, which suspends everything from the the banjo. On the other hand, the Elbo 2 would seem to provide better support with the 2 post system, and is therefore "stronger" in practice. I'd like to hear others thoughts on this.

 

[hockenbery]

The Elbo 2 has two support points (base plus tool rest). This would seem to require more bed length than the Trent Bosch System, which suspends everything from the the banjo. On the other hand, the Elbo 2 would seem to provide better support with the 2 post system, and is therefore "stronger" in practice. I'd like to hear others thoughts on this.

That would be a consideration for a short-bed lathe.
With the lock lever on the tailstock side it take more bed real estate than the Jaimison too.

It may work with the support post cantilevered off the bed to save real estate.
The Simon Hope does this nicely
Also cantilevering reduces the minimum bar length over the tool rest another loss of bed length.

 

[Lyle Jamieson]

Lyle Jamieson has a double ended bar and cutter assemblies that are quite versatile. Jamieson hollowing tools

Thanks for the mention Kevin!

 

[Lyle Jamieson]

I tried the camera system on one of my hollowing systems and found little difference between that and a laser. I stuck with the laser, no wires and no screen. I get to look at the piece when hollowing.

Completely agree Bill!

 

[Lyle Jamieson]

This isn’t totally true.
It is quite easy to use a Jamieson system on a short bed lathe. I’ve done a bunch of hollowing demos using the Jamison system on shortbed lathes. I have a length of 2x6 that I bolt to the end of the lathe and mount the backrest on the other end of the 2x6.
I also have the Simon hope that I now take to demos because it is a slightly faster setup for a new lathe

Nice looking system. You’ll enjoy it.

Hi Al! Thanks for the clarification.
I have backrests to fit any lathe, including short bed. No alterations, or 2x6's required. Do you need me to send you a backrest for your mini lathe?
Lyle

 

[hockenbery]

Hi Al! Thanks for the clarification.
I have backrests to fit any lathe, including short bed. No alterations, or 2x6's required. Do you need me to send you a backrest for your mini lathe?
Lyle

I knew you had those back rests. Should have mentioned it.
Your back rest is a better solution.

Sort of like anyone with a 2x6 can use your system on any lathe so simple.

Nice offer but I don’t need the backrest I do all my hollowing on the big ONEWAY.

 

[Bill Blasic]

Every hollow form I do has just three tool and laser changes. Straight tool, laser set 1. Second tool is the curved cutter for getting the inside curve, laser set 2. Back to the straight to finish side and depth, laser set 3. With those settings I know exactly where the cutter is and most important to me is I'm looking at the piece. Like I said I tried the video and found it no different than the laser except for a screen and wires and I wasn't looking at the piece and I had to worry about screens and wires. We all use what works for each of us, I try not to say or mean what I do or think is the best for all. You each have to find that out for yourselves.

 

[Kevin Jenness]

Every hollow form I do has just three tool and laser changes. Straight tool, laser set 1. Second tool is the curved cutter for getting the inside curve, laser set 2. Back to the straight to finish side and depth, laser set 3. With those settings I know exactly where the cutter is and most important to me is I'm looking at the piece. Like I said I tried the video and found it no different than the laser except for a screen and wires and I wasn't looking at the piece and I had to worry about screens and wires. We all use what works for each of us, I try not to say or mean what I do or think is the best for all. You each have to find that out for yourselves.

I don't understand how one laser setting for each of those tool settings can work to accurately indicate the cutter location relative to the vessel wall, especially in the final cuts where you are working on both the side and the end. Unless the laser dot is tangent to the part of the cutter actually doing the work the indicated wall thickness will vary depending on the cutter angle to the surface. When hollowing a spherical form for instance, the upper shoulder area may be cut with the left side of the tool, the waist with the tool's center and the ankle with the right side, and the distance from the cut to the outside of the wall will vary. Can you explain how this works for you?

As far as "looking at the piece" goes, I have my video screen mounted just outboard and above the headstock, so I can easily monitor both the workpiece and image. It certainly is useful to keep an eye directly on the actual vessel, especially when turning burls with bark inclusions.

I don't mean to be argumentative. I know you are a very experienced turner and I would like to understand why your use of the laser differs so much from my experience. Perhaps we are making different sorts of forms. A tall, narrow vase shape would be less problematic in this respect than a globe.

 

[Mike Zip Hamilton]

Monty, your first pic seems to show your tail stock in the way. Can you drop it away and move your mount forward a bit? Would it still be in the way? Shop space is a problem for me; so the TB system that allows me to rotate my head stock and work from ther side is an advantage. I made an adjustable platform mounted to the ways puting my monitor next to my project. It was easy to mount three different cameras to my system; none proved reliable. Maybe Trent's camera would be better. I went back to the laser and am happy.

 

[Kevin Jenness]

I much prefer video over laser.

A side benefit is it works on the backside of wide forms

Can you explain that last point?

(update) Never mind, I understand now that the laser dot becomes harder to see at the base of a wide piece. It's been a while since I used a laser, and I had forgotten that inconvenient detail.

 

[Monty Ivy]

The tailstock is removable. In the photo of the rig, I'm showing where the handle would go. When I was hollowing, I didn't need to use the handle and removed it. Two fingers on the boring bar were enough to guide the cuts. The tailstock was on the lathe.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

@Monty Ivy , thanks for taking the time to review the Elbo 2. As you use it more, I hope you'll give us an update.

In your photos your base plate is mounted parallel to the lathe bed. If the Elbo is like my Simple Hollowing System you can swivel the base to one side which will change the angles on the joints. Just a tip on another adjustment.

I do this often, and eventually it led to the idea of an extension arm. More details here:

Standoff Arm for Hollowing Rig

A few years ago I bought an articulated arm hollowing rig. While using it for that particular hollow form project I was struck by how versatile it could be for other aspects of turning. For tools that are held level such as NRS and carbide scrapers (or even Hunter style carbide tools) the rig...

www.aawforum.org

 

[Tim Yoder]

That would be a consideration for a short-bed lathe.
With the lock lever on the tailstock side it take more bed real estate than the Jaimison too.

It may work with the support post cantilevered off the bed to save real estate.
The Simon Hope does this nicely
Also cantilevering reduces the minimum bar length over the tool rest another loss of bed length.

Not trying to advertise here, but just adding a clarification. The base of the Elbo 2 usually mounts with the clamp lever facing the headstock. That way on a short bed lathe it only takes up about 2" of bed by cantilevering off the end of the bed. However you can mount it any direction you wish.

 

[Tim Yoder]

Continued...
View attachment 48965


View attachment 48967

Also available on Tim's website are storage hooks. This makes it easy to store the tool away when not in use.

The storage hooks can also be mounted side by side allowing you to leave the Laser Guide and base attached to the Elbo 2. You simply hang the entire tool on the hooks. It makes it quicker to take off and put on the lathe.

 

[Gary Morgan]

I’m comfortable with my laser. Having my hand near a piece spinning with torque and not watching it would make me anxious. We’re probably all a little different on that measure.

 

[Bill Blasic]

I don't understand how one laser setting for each of those tool settings can work to accurately indicate the cutter location relative to the vessel wall, especially in the final cuts where you are working on both the side and the end. Unless the laser dot is tangent to the part of the cutter actually doing the work the indicated wall thickness will vary depending on the cutter angle to the surface. When hollowing a spherical form for instance, the upper shoulder area may be cut with the left side of the tool, the waist with the tool's center and the ankle with the right side, and the distance from the cut to the outside of the wall will vary. Can you explain how this works for you?

As far as "looking at the piece" goes, I have my video screen mounted just outboard and above the headstock, so I can easily monitor both the workpiece and image. It certainly is useful to keep an eye directly on the actual vessel, especially when turning burls with bark inclusions.

I don't mean to be argumentative. I know you are a very experienced turner and I would like to understand why your use of the laser differs so much from my experience. Perhaps we are making different sorts of forms. A tall, narrow vase shape would be less problematic in this respect than a globe.

Maybe just maybe its the tools you use. The smallest Hunter carbide is not much bigger than the laser dot. Even Jordan and Kelton hollowers no matter their size I treat the same way. I know where the dot is set and I know the shape of the cutter and I visualize easily seeing what you are seeing on that screen. I was not able to train one eye to look at the screen while the other looked at the piece. All my hollow forms are globe shaped with shoulders. A tall narrow shape does not have to use a hollowing system. I have never cut through a hollow form, came close when I tried for super super thin and the walls flexed while spinning. My goal is usually 1/8" thickness and with good wood is fairly easy to achieve.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Not trying to advertise here,

Well, I will. Speaking as a devote of articulated arm rigs, this looks, as they say, to be a "very good bit of kit".

The base of the Elbo 2 usually mounts with the clamp lever facing the headstock.... However you can mount it any direction you wish.

With an articulated arm rig sometimes a joint will get into just the right position to resist folding when the tool is pulled. While a little more force will overcome the resistance, changing the angle of the base changes the geometry enough to solve the problem. So a very valuable adjustment.

 

[Kevin Jenness]

Maybe just maybe its the tools you use. The smallest Hunter carbide is not much bigger than the laser dot. Even Jordan and Kelton hollowers no matter their size I treat the same way. I know where the dot is set and I know the shape of the cutter and I visualize easily seeing what you are seeing on that screen. I was not able to train one eye to look at the screen while the other looked at the piece. All my hollow forms are globe shaped with shoulders. A tall narrow shape does not have to use a hollowing system. I have never cut through a hollow form, came close when I tried for super super thin and the walls flexed while spinning. My goal is usually 1/8" thickness and with good wood is fairly easy to achieve.

I am guessing that you are centering the laser dot on the tool and estimating the wall thickness from there, rather than offsetting by the wall thickness and stopping the cut when the dot disappears. Is that correct?

 

[Doug Freeman]

A tall narrow shape does not have to use a hollowing system.

Please elaborate

 

[Bill Blasic]

I set the laser by eye to 1/8" from the very tip of the cutting tool so yes when it falls off the side of the piece I have achieved desired thickness. When I start cutting in the hollow form I'm not concerned with where the tool is I'm just removing stock as fast as I can. Once I get to the 1/4" thickness this is where no matter under the corner or down the sides my cuts get much smaller taking about .015 at a time so the amount of tool surface touching the wood inside is minuscule. When final size is coming it is just a whisper cut whether under the corner or down the side. For the most part these are small hollow forms with an entry hole of about a 1/2" or less.
As far as the narrow shape I took that to mean a vase shape and a straight tool can be used instead of a hollowing system, that's all. Lyndal Anthony has a new tool out that used with a hollowing system makes short work of cutting out the inside of a bowl.

 

[Doug Freeman]

As far as the narrow shape I took that to mean a vase shape and a straight tool can be used instead of a hollowing system, that's all

Well, yes, and swan neck hand tools can be used vs a system for any shape. I use a system to remove the anxiety and much higher concentration required to hollow deep by hand - it takes the fun out of it. Whether straight or globe shape, the cutting edge is still the same distance off the tool rest and invisible to the operator, with equal opportunity to ruin the piece with a lapse of concentration.

 

[Mike Selser]

Lyndal Anthony has a new tool out that used with a hollowing system makes short work of cutting out the inside of a bowl.

Do you have a link for this? I don’t see anything on midwestwoodart.com.

 

[Bill Blasic]

Lyndal first showed it on the WoW site and I told him to let me know when they were ready to go. Here is a video of roughing out.

Additionally: http://www.midwestwoodart.com/keyless-chuck-extension.html
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AKB9eZs1_k&t=60s