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DVR XP or 3520B

D

DavidC

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I am new to this forum. I had sent Jeff J an email with my question but seeing that its Sunday I thought I'd open my question to the whole forum. Thanks for your consideration,

David

" I started to carve wood in the round last summer but am
very frustrated with the seasoning time required for different woods which I have collected over time. I had been contemplating learning to turn because my wife wants large bowls and someday burled bowls and could not accept that I could not carve them easily. Then I saw the ShopShot of Herbert Cohen in Jupiter Fla. and his "celestrial series" turned sculptures. (http://www.woodcentral.com/shots/shot738.shtml) Sort of like sculptured turning in the round. That kind of possibility caught both my and my wife's eye. And he made them with green wood!!!!

So I was thinking of buying a Nova DVR XP with an outboard tool rest assembly which would allow me to turn outboard up to 29". With tax at Woodcraft that would run more than $2600. Then I learned on your forum that the tool rest set-up only allows for a depth of 5", or a very large platter. Do I remember this correctly? If so, I started to take a good look at the lathe you have, the 3520a.

Right now I can get the 3520b for $2570. Of course the 18" extension and tool rest which would attach outboard to the legs is another $400+, but for a total to my door of $3000. I am starting to think that for just 15% more I am getting twice the machine and will not be selling my DVR XP three years down the road because it is not big enough when I might want to turn larger (Right now on the property I have collected some sassifras, maple, oak and black cherry with some logs up to 16" to 23" dia.). Am I on the right track?

This seems like a whole lot of machine for a beginner, but my accomplished woodworking buddy who just started turning bowls this year is very frustrated by the small size of his midi-Jet.. Any advise? Is there a technological advantage to the DVR direct drive for newbie? It's engine is almost as big at 1 3/4 hp. Seems I am alweays drawn to the "new" techology like magnetically driven variable direct drive. Would I be better served learning on the smaller machine? They are still both a BIG investment.

If I am going to jump on this 3520b deal (as I heard the promotional price only stands until the 31st) then I should also jump on the Sorby 6 pc. tool set deal ($50 off) at Woodcraft which ends the same day. (3/4 roughing gouge, 3/8 bowl gouge, 3/8 spindle gouge, 3/4 oval skew chisel, 1/8 parting tool and 1/2 round nose scrapper). I know sets sometimes include tools you'll never use but as this set is small, does it give me a good starting point? Thanks"
 
DVR or 3250?

I was in the same situation a couple of years ago and was torn between the 3250a and the DVR 3000. They are both great machines and I don't think you can go wrong with either.

I ended up with the DVR because I have a bias towards fewer moving parts. The downside is it also has more electronics. Two secondary aspects of my choice where that I wanted to have a lathe that I could move between my shop and another location a couple of times a year, if the opportunity arose. And I wanted to build my own stand and working area. The DVR is certainly easier to move, and a little easier to put onto your own stand if you wanted to.

I have turned at the maximum depth and diameter both inboard and outboard on the DVR and find it easy to work with, with plenty enough power. It is certainly a very smooth operating lathe. The one thing about the digital control that I don't care for is that it doesn't have very much positive feedback. By this I mean that you can hit the on or off button, and think you have pressed it, but it you really haven't. But its a minor item for me.

What I did when making the choice is I went to one of my local woodcraft stores that happened to have both in their teaching/demo room, and I used both lathes for a little bit. You could even go as far as taking a hands-on class for a day if you want. This would give you a chance to form an opinion on which is the best choice for you now.

Jeff
 
Who am I to say. I have several lathes including the DVR. If you want a outboard stand for the PM check out the Vicmarc stand. You just attach to end of the PM. I use one on my Vicmarc. I have the outboard stand on the DVR but have not used it in 3 years. If the PM replace the cast iron tool rest with a forged steel one. GT
 
I have the new DVR XP and I like it very much. I do not have much of a reference point, although I have turned on a powermatic 3520a and liked that machine as well. The Powermatic is a beast compared to the DVR-XP. In my case, shop size considerations made the decision for me since I can mount the DVR to the top of a heavy bench and still have lots of underbench storage.

I think Woodcraft is having a 10% off one day only sale on February 4th (online and in stores, I believe), so you'll want to check this out if you go with the DVR XP.
 
Yes the Powermatic is much more lathe for the money. In the end the cost of the lathe ends up being less than 50% of the investment in woodturning.

Safety equipment
Dust midigation
Turning tools
Sharpening equipment
Chuck(s)
Hands on Instruction
Sanding equipment and supplies
Wood
Things you never dreamed you HAD to have.

Good Luck
 
While the DVR is a nice lathe, you cant beat the PM3520 series. It is by far the best bang for the buck out there. I have a friend that just upgraded from a DVR to a 3520B. This was after he came to my house and saw my 3520A. I will ask him to stop here and give you his thoughts, since hes now owned both he would be a fantastic person to get an opinion from.

FWIW I bouht mine from toolnut too, was very happy with price and service.

Regards,

Chris
 
DavidC said:
Right now I can get the 3520b for $2570. Of course the 18" extension and tool rest which would attach outboard to the legs is another $400+, but for a total to my door of $3000.
Click to expand...

Dave

I have a Jet with the 20" extension and I'm wondering if you're talking the same thing on the PM? I think what you're talking about with the extension is a way to lengthen the bed on the PM, not set it up for outboard turning. I added a bed extension so I could turn legs etc that ran more than the 42" using the original bed length, now I can go 60".

If you want to turn large diameter plates and bowls, I think all you need to do is slide the headstock to the end of the bed. You would need some type of external toolstand though if it went over 20" diameter.

Paul
 
Thank you all

Thanks for all the responses so far. First some answers:
The $2570 price was from toolnut.
The 10% off at Woodcraft is appealing, and as I have purchased other supplies and machines from them. I guess it is always good to support your local merchant especially when there will be times you need help,
I do have a smaller shop area to work with. My table saw, drill press and router are in the basement and the 18" bandsaw in the garage (for easier access for large logs.) So there's a vote for the DVR,
I already have a Tormek sharpening system and lots of varied wood in various forms of seasoning. A better dust collection system is next on my list. I have a festool mini for a lot of my sanding needs, and just a shop vac for my tablesaw. Guess with all these curls flying I'll need a two stage separator. I have to be careful of the forced hot air furnace elsewhere in the basement,
As to the 18" bed extension. It gets mounted on the outboard side lower down on the leg after you remove the tailstock. On this you buy PM's verticle extension post and attach this to the tool base placed on the lower bed. This is where all the extra $ starts adding up. You can see this in figure 9 on page 11 of the product manual - here's the link:
http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/partfiles/m_1352001.pdf
I'll have to look at Vicmarc accessories. In two of Richard Raffan's books (as he's a vicmarc guy) he states quite clearly that most turners will never need more than a lathe the size of the DVR and they should cut their teeth on that and if necessary work up in size later.
I'd love to hear from Chris's friend who upgraded (sold?) from the DVR to the 3520b. Thanks.

David
 
Here is what I sent via PM before I noticed this thread. I was at the AAW board meeting.

For Nova - it's a good machine, but I have never used it. So I can't compare it very well.

For the 3520, this is an excellent machine. If you look thru the forum you'll see the writeup I did last year about the 3520b. It is a machine which is fine for beginners.

I have the 18" extension. I've had it since I bought the lathe and have never used it. But at some point I will use it and it's cheaper to get it with the lathe (cheap shipping) than wait until later.

I have very little bad to say about the 3520. It is designed well and can do 20" diameter. It has a good variable speed electronic drive and I have had zero problems with mine, which has over 2000 hours on it.

Within your limits, you should buy the largest machine you can afford. You can turn small stuff on a big machine, but you cannot turn large stuff on a small machine. With the 3520 I use the slideable headstock during nearly every session. That single feature is found on very few lathes and its versatility is incomparable.

About tools. I bought a cheapie set to start with. I don't use it much. I do a lot of bowls and vases, and a lot of hollowing. Personally I think it is better to determine what kind of turning you will do and spend the money on quality tools which support that turning style/type. I have a bunch of tools now including 2 Crown ProPM 3/4" gouges sharpened the same way. I can turn with one, then when it gets dull, I can use the other. Total cost for those was $200 or so. But for my style I'd rather have 2 gouges to reduce the trips to the grinder.

===

I'll also add a caveat for newbies reading this. The advice to buy a large machine is for the specific question asked here. In general I advise folks to start with a cheaper machine. That way if they don't like woodturning they didn't spend much. Also if you have a starter machine, then when you move up you get a feeling for the features you are looking for in a more expensive machine.
 
Jeff,

I agree, I used my Delta Midi for a couple of years to the point that I was really pushing what the lathe could do. I researched for months and time and time again the 3520 came up as the best bang for the buck. I then went and turned on one. Mike schwing is the owner of the one I tried, with the quality of the turnings that he makes I was very impressed. Then when I tried to egg him on to upgrade and sell me his 3520, he replied I could "upgrade" but this lathe hasnt held me back yet. There are 5 of these in our club now, last year there was only one. IMO for a very little bit more $ you are getting a whole lot more lathe. I will ping my friend Kieth for you.

Regards,

Chris
 
DavidC said:
As to the 18" bed extension. It gets mounted on the outboard side lower down on the leg after you remove the tailstock. On this you buy PM's verticle extension post and attach this to the tool base placed on the lower bed. This is where all the extra $ starts adding up. You can see this in figure 9 on page 11 of the product manual - here's the link:
http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/partfiles/m_1352001.pdf
Click to expand...

Dave

I didn't know that was possible. Like I said, I have the Jet 1642 (same parent company) and mine only has the option to mount it off the bed. Nice little feature, I learned something new today. Whatever you get, I'm sure it will be good.

Paul
 
The 2035A will only take the bed extension. I haven't looked into the possibility of tapping holes so that I can move my bed extension down like the 2035B. I like that option and will consider it. Free standing tool rests work but you have to be comfortable with your skills and not make stupid mistakes. I captured tool rest is much better.
We have 40 members in our turning club and I'll bet at least 10 of them have 2035's and not a single problem among them.
 
Oh, and the Sorby set is a good one. The only tool in the set that won't get used regularly will likely end up being the scraper.

Pinnacle also has nice sets at slightly better prices.

Don't forget your sorby multi-tip hollower.

dietrich
 
As suggested earlier, I started out with an inexpensive Grizzly 1067Z. I dont know much about he PM but after 1 year with the Grizzly, I recently upgraded to the DVR. I am extremely pleased with its features and performance.
 
Go Mustard

I own both the DVR and the 3520B. The DVR is a versatile lathe, but if I known about the Powermatic 3520 at the beginning I would have bought the 3520 first. The Powermatic gives you more stability and even power. That said I am keeping both lathes. Good luck “Go Mustardâ€Â. You can e-mail me and I would be glad to answer any questions you may have.
 
I have a Plan!

Thanks again all.

I have digested all this and have decided not to rush this major purchase based on a sale deadline. I went down to talk to my woodworker store owner. Thought I would at least take advantage of the Sorby set sale. He could have sold me and he could have pushed for the dvr xp but he suggested that I buy nothing until I knew for sure what I needed.

He thought I could put some time in on the dvr's in his shop, buy just a couple of tools, and keep my eye out for a good used midi (as they are out there). Then work that to death to find its limits, add-on tools as I needed them, hone my skill level, and seek out opportunities to get hands-on time on other machines. In time, taken all together, my personal wants and needs and skill level would define and justify my "dream machine".

Even though he likes the dvr, as its versatility suits his teaching setting, surprizingly he added that when I was ready to invest the big bucks, and my skills and desires had out-stripped what I had, I should also plan to invest a bit more and consider the only machine he would invest in for the long hall...a custom made Oneway. (Which, he added, was only his personal preference.) He felt obligated to apologize for his honesty and did not want to disuade me from spending my money right then and there if I felt the need to. It's nice to find this kind of helpful attitude and advise in the retail trade. It's not everywhere.

So, taking his advise into account along with the responses I received here I signed up for a four week class and will start that next week. This few hundred $ seems to be the prudent investment at this juncture. Now I have a plan in hand and a direction, but I know I would not be so confident in my decision without all the generous time & feedback I received here.

Thank you,

David Carmichael
 
Your getting good advice...

It's good to have a local tool guy you can trust, it will make your turning lifetime that much more pleasant. For better or worse I learned the other way.

We are lucky that there are so many choices for the power tools, hand tools and accessories that we can use. But sometime it's hard to sort through the myriad of options. Once you eliminate the really bad stuff, making selections from the remaining options really comes down to some combination of personal preference and how much money you are willing to spend for each incremental feature and option. You need to remember that you are the one that will be standing in front of the lathe, holding the gouge, or applying the finish. For me, sometimes it is hard to put other people's opinions to the background and make a selection, especially when they have more experience and produce such beautiful work.

In hindsight, for me there was significant value gained by going through the decision process and not starting with the "best" tool. Sometimes what is best for the very experienced turner wouldn't have been best for me at the time. In some cases you need to use the previous generation of tool, or use and older technique to grow your skills.

As one example of many, I don't think I would have ever learned to have the touch with a grinder, or get a tool really sharp with the right profile, if I hadn't started with a set of very inexpensive carbon steel tools. The shorter lifetime for the edge sent me back to the grinder a little more often...in the end this was very valuable practice. Poor cutting technique dulled the tool quick enough that it was timely feedback that something was wrong with what I was doing. And a poor grind profile was easier to make go away. I certainly wouldn't have the appreciation for what the newer steel does for the turner if I had initially purchased powder metal gouges out of the gate. In any case they would have been quickly ground to uselesss nubs.

But a set of turning tools is a different class of decision than the Lathe decision you are making. And the lathe decision can be a tough one, you want to get it as close to correct as you can for what you know now. Mostly its because of the money involved. Not letting your enthusiasm put you in a position of buyers remorse is pretty smart. Please let us know what you finally decide to do and why.

... and thanks for asking for opinions, it's very educational to read what others like and dislike about thier setups.

Jeff
 
David - you will find that many of the folks on this forum have gone thru the same process of trying to decide which lathe and tools to buy. I spent quite awhile reading about and looking at different lathes before I moved up from my starter lathe.

For some folks, the sliding headstock on the 3520 is a deal cincher.
For other folks, the 100% rigidity and high precision feel of the Oneway is the way to go.
Yet for others, a rotating headstock is what they are looking for.

Since there are so many different features on different lathes I made a matrix of the main features I was looking for. Then I set a rough budget. Then I evaluated each lathe using the matrix. After I completed that process, it gave me the confidence that I had covered all the territory and features available. But I'm pretty process oriented and this might be too laborious for most people.

For others, the love of a good lathe doesn't stop at one machine. I was in St.Paul last year and visited a famous woodturner who has 15 different lathes. :cool2:
 
A boy's point of view.

This thread has sort of loss its advice-orientation for a more 'personal' route, but what the hell, I'll chip in with my story.

I'm 16. For my birthday last April, I got Jet 1236. Now I have the remnants of a Jet 1236. I was a little rough on the machine in the beginning. Kid+Machine=Apacolypse. But it was definantly good to learn on. I swear I've gotten at least 400 hours on the thing. But only recently, when I've actually been caring for it, has it begun to fall apart. My tailstock doesn't function and I lost control of the Reeves drive, which now is permantly at about 1100 rpm (Roughing, spindle, sanding, everything).
Yeah, I'm in the market for a new lathe.
I spent all last summer saving money and working junky-grunt labor for my demonic boss (who happens to own a woodworking school). I've managed to save about $2300 plus whatever I can coerce out of my parents (probably a couple hundred in this instance of getting a lathe).
I was pumped. I had my plans to get the Powermatic all laid out. I was just waiting for springtime to come around so it doesn't rust in my freezing garage.
But recently I had an epiphany. What will I do when I get out of college. Will I move to an apartment? Will I rent a place? Will I even have access to 220v or even be able to bring a 700 pound machine with me? My parents are willing to front the electrican's bill for setting our house up with 220 (my mom runs 440v in the basement haha), but in two years, I'll be out of here.
And that's why my mind has switched over to the DVR XP and getting it Saturday. Sure, it's not a rock. Sure, it doesn't have 20" of swing. And yeah, it's not painted an awsome mustard yellow (I love mustard). But I need a quality machine that is capable of taking me into a (plausible) career in woodturning/furniture making. I can plug this machine into 110v outlet on an apartment wall and use it. I can get a buddy and move the Nova up a flight of stairs.
If I lived in my own house, I'd get the Powermatic, no question. But with the current ambiguity in my life, I'm going with the Nova DVR XP.

P.S.- I've turned on both machines, I'm not going blindly into this one.
 
An "old" boy's point of view.

Smart kid! I bought the 1642. I am not as interested in bowl turning, but wanted a lathe with a reasonable capacity. The 1642 is basically a PM of a different color. I can still push the head to the end of the bed and turn a pretty good sized bowl if I need to, or better yet, a small pie crust table top. I really like the lathe, but I will admit that the larger PM is attractive. Problem is, I was pushing my budget when I bought the Jet. Other than brute force size and weight I think the lathes are equivalent.

Personal humble impression and opinion: give the Australian and Canadian lathes a rest. They're good to excellent lathes, but very expensive and, in more than one case, over priced. Anyone who markets a Beaver needs to rethink what they want to represent. Oh, Beaver! Now I get it.
 
What Dustpan said!
 
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