Dust particles

[Sky]

Down here in south Florida, we've had smoke blowing in from grass fires. An article in our newspaper was discussing paper dust masks, wet towels, etc... as protection against airbourn particles. The conclusion was that particles from smoke were aprox. .03 microns,far to small to be filtered out by above mentioned methods. My question is this, does anyone know the particle size of sanding dust created with the various grits of sand paper we use? I use between 80 & 600 grit. I always wear at least a Dust-B-Gone mask at minimum & respirator when needed.

 

[Bill Boehme]

The stuff that you see piled up around what you are sanding would be 5 microns and larger. The stuff that hangs around in the air can range from from a couple microns down to almost the size of the smoke, but most of it if you are sanding a hard dry wood with fine sandpaper would probably be in the range of .1 to 1 micron. Like you said, the cheap paper masks are worthless. There are high quality paper masks that have good face seals and exhalation valves and are rated at N95 and N100. The N100 filters are HEPA filters and will trap almost all of the wood dust long as you make sure that the face seal is adjusted correctly. There are also powered respirators, but that can get quite expensive. I have the 3M Airstream which uses a P100 (HEPA) filter. The Trend Airshield uses a filter which has an European rating that I believe is approximately equal to the US P95 rating. The filter in the Triton respirator has not been certified to any US or foreign standards. I used the Dust Bee-Gone cloth mask until I figured out that it was hardly any better than cheesecloth in removing dust (it did not pass the nose test). The advanage of the powered respirators is that they provide cooling air, your glasses don't fog, and there is a built-in face shield.

Bill

 

[MichaelMouse]

If you want to filter something extremely small rather than trap it, you'll have to go to those masks you can hardly draw breath through. If you're interested in trapping it, which also keeps it from travelling further, then you can use several layers of damp cloth which provides a fairly easy to maintain seal, a multitute of low-pressure high turbulence areas to spin the smoke until it hits something wet to retain it, and a bit of chemical protection as well, as long as the chemical is water soluble. Your body works on the same principle, with nares, hairs and mucous.

Chemicals are the real pulmonary danger. Organic particles don't seem to be too much of a problem.

Get a collector up close and personal to where you're sanding and let the dust stream in. Oh yes, the CAMI 400 is 400/inch, so average dust half the grit isn't a bad estimate.

 

[KEW]

The filter in the Triton respirator has not been certified to any US or foreign standards.
Bill

Bill,
Here is the datasheet for the Triton, it is certified under a New Zeland/Austrailian standard.
http://www.tritonwoodworking.com/tritontools/data/files/data_sheet_PRC001.pdf

Bill Esposito has more detail on the filtration in his review and states it as removing 95% down to 0.3 microns. I'm not sure what his source is, but I've learned over the years that Bill is a trustworthy sorce of facts.
http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/reviews/tritonrespirator.htm

Cheers,
Kurt

 

[n7bsn]

Kurrt is correct, without looking I think the standard the Triton passed is also "close" to a US standard

 

[mbtria]

Organic particle diseases

"Chemicals are the real pulmonary danger. Organic particles don't seem to be too much of a problem."

I must respectfully disagree. The majority of named occupational lung disease may come from mineral and metallic particles. But cotton workers lung, sugarcane workers lung, silo fillers disease, as well as a variety of other diseases result from the inhalation of organic particles including wood.

Black lung, from the inhalation of carbon particles, is the quintessential organic particle occupational lung disease.

 

[Wilford Bickel]

Too Important!

It is sad that the company that makes the Triton wants the sales here in the US but refuses to have the unit tested to prove it passes OSHA and NIOSH regulations. Having a grandfather that died from Black Lung and emphysema from working in coal mines - I will not use a respirator unless it has passed US testing and meets NIOSH and OSHA regulations. I see lots of claims that this unit is "close" to US standards - my own health requires any respirator I or my family use to meet US standards or be better than US standards. Let me assure you that is not a good way to go to your reward! 🙁

There are lots of good half face respirators out there at reasonable prices that meet all US regulations. I personally use the 3M 7500 unit with organic and particulate filters. This is in addition to dust collector, shop vac and air cleaner used in the shop! I watched a man I loved and admired die from lung problems caused by the coal dust - I won't have myself or anyone I care about go through that again!

 

[Bill Boehme]

If you would have bothered to check what the P1 filter rating means, you would find that the Austrailian/New Zealand standard P1 is for filters rated "low to medium" and is the same rating that they give to the disposable paper comfort masks. That rating falls below the lowest US filter rating. The P2 rating is for use in welding and similar uses where there is exposure to metallic fumes and would be comparable to the US P95 particulate filter rating except that in the US, I believe that filters used during welding must also have the ability to absorb these gasses by using things such as charcoal cannisters.

Bill

 

[Bill Boehme]

"Chemicals are the real pulmonary danger. Organic particles don't seem to be too much of a problem."

I must respectfully disagree. The majority of named occupational lung disease may come from mineral and metallic particles. But cotton workers lung, sugarcane workers lung, silo fillers disease, as well as a variety of other diseases result from the inhalation of organic particles including wood.

Black lung, from the inhalation of carbon particles, is the quintessential organic particle occupational lung disease.

I completely agree with you and I don't know where George came up with that misconception. Any type of microscopic particles, inert or otherwise, (silica dust, asbestos, metallic dust, smoke ashes, carbon dust, wood dust, silo dust, etc.) produce a reaction in the lungs that greatly reduce their efficiency and the body is not able to expel the particles because of their microscopic size. Anyone who has any misconceptions about this should consult their family physician for clarification.

Bill

 

[MichaelMouse]

I came up with it from research. Organic materials definitely act differently in the organism than inorganic. They are not embedded in the lungs creating useless scar tissue, because their shape and sharpness does not cause constant irritation with tissue movement. Brown lung, byssinosis and farmers' lung don't even seem to be caused by particulates, rather by something else within the dust.

The ability of carbon to adsorb (and desorb or dissolve into lipid-friendly environments) organic molecules is what makes it particularly advantageous for purification, but when the soot or carbon dust, laden with the byproducts of combustion is inhaled, it does carry a lot of odd things with it. The carbon in cellulose is pretty well saturated, so adsorbtion isn't much of a problem.

While zero tolerance is a noble objective, it is scarcely obtainable. With severity and duration of exposure the determining factors in long-term damage the best course is to employ methods which are user-friendly and will be used because they do much for so little burden. Thus the advice to use the simple cloth, dampened to cause particulates to stick, over trying to breathe for any period of time through those HEPA masks that tax us even during a thirty minute transport. Lots of TB at the prison.

 

[SMarlow]

The argument over whether or not wood dust is more/less harmful than X is really irrelevant. The point is that wood dust should not be inhaled if possible.

Sky: One of the best ways to keep form inhaling the dust (or to keep it to a minimum) would be to prevent it from getting to "nostril level" in the first place.
A well-placed shroud from your dust collector will pull (the majority of) the sanding dust away before it ever gets the chance to be more/less harmful to your lungs.

I built a sliding collector for my lathe that can be configured for spindle or bowl turning, and can slide the length of my bed to ensure efficient pickup.

2 pictures attached. Concept and reality.

more can be found HERE

 

[Wilford Bickel]

Sliding Hood

I agree that capturing the dust is the best method. I purchased the hood sold by Highland Hardware along with the bracket that lets you put it on a 2x4 and built a frame that runs lengthwise behind the bed. This allows me to slide the hood down the bed to the area I am working in.

Hood

 

[Sky]

I have a dust collecter & use it. My question was about particle size & do "masks" do the job.

 

[Martin Braun]

From what I've read from the government safety websites and other articles, wood dust is a carcinogen, and particles in the 1-10 micron range are hard for the body to remove from the lungs. Some folks may also find the dust aggravates their allergies. Dust from spalted wood is something folks probably don't want to breath in either.

I have found that the half mask respirators work quite well for me. I employ a P100 set of particulate filters, and I find breathing through them is not at all difficult. Most hardware stores carry them for something on the order of $30-$40. I also have VOC filters which are nice for finishing work. That's less for safety and mostly because I don't like smelling solvents. I also keep my work area well ventilated, and try to collect at the source, though it's a little trickier at the lathe compare to other ww'ing tools. My $0.02.

George (Michael) advocates not trimming nose hair, but mine is not as bushy as his is, so I have to go with the mask. 🙂

 

[mbtria]

"<I>I came up with it from research. Organic materials definitely act differently in the organism than inorganic. [/I]"

Doing research is a wonderful thing. But having the background to interpret the research is an even better thing, especially when ones pulmonary function is at stake.

0) Organic only means that a substance contains one or more carbon atoms.
1) The worst known carcinogens are organic.
2) The most toxic substances known are organic.
3) The medical concern is not only cancer, but pulmonary function.
4) The concerns are not only chemistry, but also physics. Both the size and shape of particles of the same substance can drastically alter carcinogenicity and other effects.

As mentioned above, if you think that wood dust is a safe inhalant, speak to your physician.