I am thinking of trying the model KC-6150c. Has anyone got data on this unit as to how well it works? can't find any reviews...
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Dust collector by King Canada
- Thread starter Syd Sellers
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Syd. I assume it is the 1 1/2 HP model. I checked online & cannot find that model. I assume it is their larger single bag unit. ( may be dual=4bag)The 6200 is the cyclone model. They are all overrated. For example the KC3109 is rated at 2HP yet draws 9 amps which is barely over 1 HP even if the 9amp is true!In any case whatever you buy I would suggest you build a cyclone with a drop box to install before the DC unit. A lot easier to empty than the dust bags!! There was a plan for a cyclone in Wood Magazine back about 1998. Alternately, if you have lots of head room check out the Bill Pentz website for cyclones. Don't use less than 6" diameter pipe.
Where did you find it, or is it used?
Ron.
Where did you find it, or is it used?
Ron.
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I looked at the manual for that model. It says single phase 1.5 HP motor, 110 VAC @ 14 A. My calculations say that their stated horsepower is correct. It seems like a good vortex type dust collection system. I didn't look at the price or CFM rating, but those are the two most important things.
Thanks for the input, yes it is a 1 1/2 hp unit with a cyclone and a 1 micron bag. Air flow mybe a bit low at 1050 CFM I hope to be able to use a large pipe on it. Any idea how long a pipe I can use before it become useless??? Price is good at $1150. CDN bucks...
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Ron, King is still selling this unit, I found it at several King dealers. I think I will get it from KMS tools.
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My thought is that a little more air flow would be nice if they have a 240 VAC 2 HP model -- but then I am sort of like "Tim the Tool Guy" and would opt for the Binford 9000 Turbo model.
Syd. I finally found it! The CFM (1050) & SP (8.5) are low. You are paying a lot for a cyclone. You are dealing with KMS so I would suggest you talk to them about the General unit #10210M1 for $950. It is a 3hp 220V 2280CFM 16" SP unit. (if 220V isn't a problem). I have built 2 different cyclones. One Wood Mag & one based on Pentz design criteria. You can use an old water heater tank shell for the round body. The cone is a challenge but doable!! Could be done at your convenience.
By the same token I don't know what your collection goal is.
Many years ago I made a trip into coral creek in your neighborhood! Ron
By the same token I don't know what your collection goal is.
Many years ago I made a trip into coral creek in your neighborhood! Ron
Ron, I have a huge fear when it comes to having a Dust Collector rotor spinning at 3500 RPM in my shop and then you through large wood chips and knots at it!!! Maybe the fellow that made it has a bad welding day...we all do from time to time .... The chance of living through this is not good. So I figured I would start off with a cyclone and see what I can do. I can't afford the Oneiday Unit so this is a close second choice. My interest is simply dust removal around my two lathes, bandsaw and belt sander. I agree that the CFM is low but if I can keep the leaks down, use a 6" main pipe and use one outlet at a time I should be OK.
What do you think???
One thing that slows down the air flow is the bag system. The advantage to the paper pleated filters is that they offer more than double the out flow surface area that a bag does, and in the same amount of space. With your pipe system, 6 inch might be too big, depending on how long of a stretch you do. Pressure/flow goes down the farther away you are. You could run 5 or 6 inch, then step down to 4 or 5 for your machines. I don't know if King offers duct work design or not. Some DC businesses do.
robo hippy
robo hippy
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You'll be OK but marginal if you are thinking of having a dust chute at the lathe. If you keep the chute very close it should do a good job of getting the dust. Maybe not a lot of the big stuff. Don't make the chute too large.
Bill, my thought was to put the unit in the attic of the shop and possibly run without the output filter or at least a less fine one. As Robo suggested I can keep the air flow/ CFM up this way.
Has anyone tried this??? I was thinking that this would also give me positive air flow in the attic and keep things a bit cooler as well. But is there a danger of huge dust build up and fire danger????
I have assistance from the dealer on this cause they sell a number of different makers of dust collector systems and they do offer help in designing a duct system. Also I have seen a few web sights that do help as well.
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I doubt that the filter is a problem as far as restricting air flow is concerned. I think that not using a filter will create more problems. Although most of the stuff falls in the barrel if it is a well designed unit, there is still some fine dust. I think that it is best to keep the filter.
I would say to use 6" duct. That should give the system sufficient velocity to keep stuff for building up in the ducts.
Putting the DC in the attic seems like it could change your problems from one thing to another. While there may not be a very large amount of fine dust, I think that it might be enough to make a mess. Attics have enough dust without intentionally adding more. Start out by running it in your shop for a few months and see how much dust would get blown into the attic if you extrapolate that amount out to many years.
Another thing to think about is air pressure. Is your attic open to atmospheric pressure and if so what is the total cross sectional area of the ventilation louvers/vents. Same thing goes for your basement shop. If your shop doesn't have windows open to the outside then the path to outside air might mean a very significant loss in flow. You can find formulas in the Granger catalog for calculating pressure drop.
Something else to consider, if your shop is air-conditioned or heated then you will be pumping all that expensive air into your attic and then outdoors. The best solution is to have the DC in the same space where your machines are located.
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In the attic I would use filter or bag. Mine goes to attic in a little sealed and insulated vacuum house. There is a filtered return to the shop. My filter is the pleated type and when I installed it clean the suction was phenomenal . You cannot run unfiltered into the attic it would be a total mess. Also the same can be said of a bag. When I changed from bag to pleated the dust in the attic stopped. Hope this has answered some of your questions.
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Syd, the 1150 maximum CFM almost certainly means the air flow when there is no ductwork nor filter attached (free air). I see that Penn State has a Tempest 1425S with impressive specs. It has a free air flow of 2500 CFM and 1700 CFM through the cyclone with filter. It has a 2.5 HP motor and the filter is 0.5 micron. The price is US $1195. I don't know how that translates into Canadian dollars or if import tariffs are a deal killer.
Syd. The cyclone is one big advantage in stopping chunks from hitting the fan. The fans are fairly skookum. With the cyclone set-up I built we had 2" of fines in the bags after 2 years picking up from 2 planners and a radial arm saw. Just don't let your cyclone get full!!! With lathe cuttings that means a lot of emptying = easy access!
The General is cheaper than your King. You could use a garbage can collector before your DC. They do work & would eliminate your chunk problem but I am not sure how well with a high volume machine.
Robo. You have it backwards. You need the larger pipe, which provides better flow & fines pick-up.
Ron.
The General is cheaper than your King. You could use a garbage can collector before your DC. They do work & would eliminate your chunk problem but I am not sure how well with a high volume machine.
Robo. You have it backwards. You need the larger pipe, which provides better flow & fines pick-up.
Ron.
There are optimum sizes for your duct work/pipes. Too big and you may get volume, but not flow because the air is not moving fast enough to clear things out. My first DC was a 1 hp model that was on a cart and I moved it from one machine to the next. If I had tried to put it in one place and run duct work to it, 6 inch pipe would not have worked because it didn't have enough suck. The farther away from your machine you get, the more the pressure drops which is why the duct work design people reduce the size of the ducts. I know there is one book on dust collection systems, and it may have a 'how to figure out what size duct work you need to run for the machine you have', but I took the advice of the design people at Oneida when I set mine up. My turning room is 35 feet from the DC, and it is 6 inch duct at that distance, and steps down to a 5 inch pipe. My system is set up so that I can run 2 machines at once and still get good flow. If I was only doing one machine, all the time, then 6 inch would be fine. This is with a 3 hp system.
robo hippy
robo hippy
Robo. We have a 3HP dual bag with a Bill Pentz design adaptation cyclone pulling from a 15" planner 45+ feet away & radial arm on a branch a bit farther. No problem running both & there is no residue in the lines. I agree you need the vacuum, but it is the volume that pulls the dangerous fines & reducing the duct size reduces the volume.
FROM PENTZ.
Always use the largest diameter duct that your blower can use with the least number of restrictions. If your ducting is too small, then it instead of your blower defines the CFM that your system can provide at your machines to pick up the dust.
I didn't know who Bill Pentz was till I looked him up. Clear View dust collection systems. I have heard nothing but good things about his systems. I am thinking we are saying pretty much the same thing. Just like you can go too small, you can go too big, and it depends on your blower.
robo hippy
robo hippy
Yes. His site has a wealth of info that anyone interested in dust collection should read. In addition to all the info he has shared, he also put the info out there to enable you to design your cyclone based on the criteria he developed.
The cyclone I built I was able to modify to fit the available headroom (11+') and incorporate a drop box with dump gate & room below to position a bag. I made one further mod in that I made the discharge pipe 10" diameter to slow down the discharge velocity, then reduced to the 8" DC entry. I think that helped leave the fines behind as the only time we get much if anything in the bags is when the drop box isn't emptied properly. His best (performing) cyclones are very tall.
Fishin season coming up!! We may make a trip to NW Ontario this summer. Need a feed of walleye!!
Cheers. Ron.
I am headed to Kenora end of May, and fly north about 60 miles from there. Where are you headed? Northern are more fun, you have to hunt them down....
robo hippy
robo hippy
I am originally from Dryden 75 miles east of Kenora. I once caught an 18# northern on 6# line/ spinning reel! I was all by myself. It was fun. They like to hang out on points! A family from Chicago had a place near our summer camp. I fished a lot with one kid. I ran the boat & he cast the shoreline almost constantly. Different lakes. June is the best month overall. Have fun!
It has been a yearly event for the past 30 or so years, though we started at Lake of the Woods but it started getting over fished. Hang out, fish, and be disgusting guys for 5 days. Camp food is worth about a pound a day... Conservation lake, single barbless hooks. I am getting hungry already...
robo hippy
robo hippy