Drying wood?

[John Torchick]

I have a small toaster oven that I had given to me. I'm thinking of using it to dry small pieces of wood. It fits on a countertop or benchtop. It goes up to 450 deg. or broil. I'm sure that is too hot. Your suggestions as to temperature and approximate time needed. A lot of wood I have has been in the dry for ages but I'm always looking for more wood. Can't have enough wood! Thanks.

 

[hockenbery]

John,
I think it is Too fast, too hot. But what the heck give it a try in a fireproof area.
A kiln is more of a humidity chamber than an oven.
Most small kilns run fine with an incandescent light for heat.
The drying cycle runs 2-4 weeks

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

, you could stick it into your wood stove right away, as that is what you will get, fire wood I mean, sorry for being so rude, but that is just my opinion on this

You could use a Microwave if you are in a hurry, carefully there as well.

End seal your wood and place it where it can air dry, off of the floor/ground, has been done forever.

 

[Fadi Zeidan]

I use the DNA bath method, I rough the bowl, soak it in denatured alcohol for a day in a bucket, let it dry for an hour then drop it in a paper bag for 2-3 weeks. It comes out dry and ready to be finished.

At first I was weighing it every day but after few of them, I saw that weight stabilized after a week or two depending on the thickness so now I just wait 2-3 weeks and finish them.

Here is a link for one way of doing it
http://woodshopmike.com/denatured-alcohol-drying/

 

[Mike Johnson]

The toaster ovens come in handy for stabilizing wood after you run them through a vacuum chamber with resin.
You can salvage wood that you would normally throw away that has a lot of figure and spalting but might be too punkie.

 

[Jamie Straw]

I'm with them - ixnay on the toaster oven. What kinds of turnings will these "small pieces of wood" become?

 

[Jay Mullins]

I use the DNA bath method, I rough the bowl, soak it in denatured alcohol for a day in a bucket, let it dry for an hour then drop it in a paper bag for 2-3 weeks. It comes out dry and ready to be finished.

At first I was weighing it every day but after few of them, I saw that weight stabilized after a week or two depending on the thickness so now I just wait 2-3 weeks and finish them.

Here is a link for one way of doing it
http://woodshopmike.com/denatured-alcohol-drying/

Is it possible to use regular "rubbing" alcohol to accomplish this process?
Thanks
Jay Mullins

 

[Bill Boehme]

The toaster ovens come in handy for stabilizing wood after you run them through a vacuum chamber with resin.
You can salvage wood that you would normally throw away that has a lot of figure and spalting but might be too punkie.

Here is a link to Cactus Juice, a heat cured methacrylate ester monomer resin: https://www.turntex.com/

 

[john lucas]

The oven dries way too fast. A microwave is far better because it heats from the inside of the piece and even's out the drying. You still have to take it slow doing many cycles. Great for things like boxes and pens

 

[Fadi Zeidan]

Is it possible to use regular "rubbing" alcohol to accomplish this process?
Thanks
Jay Mullins

I'm not sure why they use Denatured Alcohol specifically so I cannot say. I got one gallon from Home Depot I poured in a bucket with the lid on, I keep the alcohol in the bucket and haven't had the need to change the alcohol in it yet so it is not an expensive setup.

I drop newly turned piece in and take it out the next day. Let it dry for 30-60 minutes then drop it in 3 gallon paper bag (only size I have) with other drying pieces and close the bag.

 

[John Torchick]

Thanks to all. I guess the toaster oven will go curbside Wednesday. Thought it would be too hot and the MW heating from the inside makes sense.
At my age, I can't afford to wait a year for wood to dry. I don't even buy green bananas!
Rubbing alcohol- depends on the grade. Some go up to 91% alcohol while others are 71%. The drawback is rubbing alcohol only comes in small containers whereas DNA can come in a gallon can. I now buy DNA and acetone in gallon cans after figuring out the cost per ounce.

 

[John Torchick]

I checked the toaster oven and the lowest setting was 200 degree. It will be gone tomorrow morning. Thanks to all.

 

[robo hippy]

A 40 or 60 watt bulb under wire shelves can work fairly well as it doesn't get too hot. There are all sorts of 'old freezer/fridge' kiln plans and designs, and you could do a small solar kiln. Smaller pieced dry more quickly, which is why a lot of people twice turn bowls.

robo hippy

 

[Hy Tran]

There is a lot of lore on accelerated drying of woods. I attended a workshop by Trent Bosch; he states that he has used boiling to accelerate drying (in the twice-turned process), with success when he was doing a lot of production turning.

Homemade drying kilns (basically, a dead refrigerator, a fan, and non-energy-saving light bulbs) appear to have good success. Cindy Drozda has an article (do a google search with her name & kiln) on her homemade kiln.

Best,

Hy

 

[Raul McCai]

I have a small toaster oven that I had given to me. I'm thinking of using it to dry small pieces of wood.

All my efforts at forced drying have ended in failure. I've tried microwave and dry heat and failed. What I've read about wood kilns informs me that controlled humidity is important and each species requires a different humidity and the temperatures are never very high ( less than 200F). Here's a PDF on the topic
http://www.woodcenter.org/docs/smallwood10denig.pdf

 

[robo hippy]

For me, any of the accelerated drying methods involve a lot more time. Put them on the shelves and let them dry while you make more. Eventually, you will have more than you can turn, but it takes a year or so to accumulate that much.

robo hippy

 

[John Torchick]

Thanks to all. My problem with a DIY kiln is the lack of space. Wife and I have been hitched for a bit over 44 years. You would be surprised at what we have accumulated. Shop is even worse.
Raul, I'll make it point to look at the link.
Edit: robo hippy's suggestion makes sense. I could try to make some shelf space in my rod building room. Shop isn't heated but the low winter humidity might help in the long run.
A solar kiln would have worked great this summer with temps in the 100s and lot of sun.

 

[Odie]

For me, any of the accelerated drying methods involve a lot more time. Put them on the shelves and let them dry while you make more. Eventually, you will have more than you can turn, but it takes a year or so to accumulate that much.

robo hippy

John......You should take note of what Robo is saying here. Waiting for moisture stabilization is no problem, even though many of them take six months up to over a year for that to happen. Have plenty of work in progress, and you'll never have to wait for them to be ready. Besides that, if you get some kiln dried 8/4, or 12/4 lumber (when it's available), you can finish turn these right away......no waiting.

This photo was taken moments ago, and shows what bowls I have "in progress" at this time. I never run out of work to do......
(BTW: I call it "work", but I don't consider it work!)

 

[Fadi Zeidan]

For me, any of the accelerated drying methods involve a lot more time. Put them on the shelves and let them dry while you make more. Eventually, you will have more than you can turn, but it takes a year or so to accumulate that much.

robo hippy

For income and selling them absolutely. But as a hobby, I see something I like and I want to copy it and just have fun doing it. Waiting a year takes the fun out of turning as a hobby. I only turn on weekends, and with the winter time, even less. That yields 3-4 bowls a month.

 

[hockenbery]

I suggest newer turners do a mix of once turned bowls, quick dried bowls and slow dried bowls.

If you get some nice wood.
Turn a natural edge bowl and rough out 3 bowls.
Quick dry a rough out in the microwave. Put two on the shelf to dry slowly.
You have 2 bowls that will be finished soon and 2 for next year.

The more you turn the faster you get because your skills are improving.
In the befinning it may take a whole weekend to turn the 4.
Then one day it will take an afternoon then 90 minutes.....

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

See I have always taken the route of quickly roughing the logs I got, before the wood will split, then stick them in brown paper bags and set those away in a cool place.
Now getting more logs would mean more roughing and storing bowls, and after many years there gets to be a lot of bowls.
Now a couple years ago we moved to a new place for us close to one of our sons here in N.Ontario.
We shipped all our stuff by ourselves and so I had a larger trailer loaded with rough turned bowls big and small, the finished ones we still had not sold or wanted to keep were already shipped earlier.
I had a chance to count the bowls as they got unloaded and set temporarily on the shop’s floor, just a few over one thousand was the count, a few less now as some got sold or given as gifts to new acquaintances and friends.
At my age I don’t have to ever again rough turn any bowls, but still have done a couple, can’t help myself wanting to turn woods I never turned before.
Anyway over all these years I have learned a few things, and the slow drying in a brown paper bag has worked well for me, splits are very few and far apart doing it this way.
Just a couple pictures that show the bowls when set in their place where most still sit waiting for me to get to them

 

[Bill Boehme]

Leo, that should keep you busy for a couple months.

 

[john lucas]

Well that's at least partly why most of my work is done with dry wood. I like the immediacy of it. For years I worked 40 to 60 hours a week and it was quite frustrating waiting for bowls to dry. I turn them, put them on a shelf to dry and then never go back to them. I say that but I turn more of them than i think because the house is full. I will rough turn a bowl and then lose interest in it. I prefer natural edge bowls that I can turn in one setting, although I still put them up to dry for a week and sand later. Often I will turn a bowl, put it up to dry and then turn several ornaments or a mirror or work on some other dry wood project that I can finish.

 

[Mike Johnson]

As Leo mentioned earlier, you can use a microwave to dry a wood piece if you are in a hurry.
The process boils the water inside the wood and ruptures the cell walls and allows the moisture to exit the blank quicker.
Multiple sessions in the microwave letting the wood cool down between each session works good.
Larger blanks require longer cooking times to get the blank warmed up compared to the smaller blanks.
Some of the lumber companies are now using industrial microwaves to dry lumber on a commercial basis.
A microwave in the shop is a handy tool, you can warm your coffee back up.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Leo, that should keep you busy for a couple months.

Yup I think so

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Well that's at least partly why most of my work is done with dry wood. I like the immediacy of it. For years I worked 40 to 60 hours a week and it was quite frustrating waiting for bowls to dry. I turn them, put them on a shelf to dry and then never go back to them. I say that but I turn more of them than i think because the house is full. I will rough turn a bowl and then lose interest in it. I prefer natural edge bowls that I can turn in one setting, although I still put them up to dry for a week and sand later. Often I will turn a bowl, put it up to dry and then turn several ornaments or a mirror or work on some other dry wood project that I can finish.

It's pretty hard to find dry wood in the sizes I make my bowls in, especially without splits and checks, and that is the main reason to use fresh green wood, besides the cost IF you could find it.

I’ve never been without a full-time job, and that consisted in working long days, and at times even weekends to get new production lines up and working, or repairing replacing equipment, though I don’t see that as a problem in roughing my logs, sealed and/or ends wrapped in plastic bags does give you some extra time if that’s what is called for.

Natural edge bowls are turned sufficiently thin that they can change shape without splitting and those are not stored with the other roughouts, being rather delicate with the bark on them they do attract attention, but don’t sell well for me, we do have some in our house and I have sold some, mind you, the selling was never the reason for me to turn wood, I just love turning wood, always did and still do

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

As Leo mentioned earlier, you can use a microwave to dry a wood piece if you are in a hurry.
The process boils the water inside the wood and ruptures the cell walls and allows the moisture to exit the blank quicker.
Multiple sessions in the microwave letting the wood cool down between each session works good.
Larger blanks require longer cooking times to get the blank warmed up compared to the smaller blanks.
Some of the lumber companies are now using industrial microwaves to dry lumber on a commercial basis.
A microwave in the shop is a handy tool, you can warm your coffee back up.

I certainly agree it being handy to reheat my coffee, especially as I tend to forget my coffee very often and have to reheat it more than once

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I suggest newer turners do a mix of once turned bowls, quick dried bowls and slow dried bowls.

If you get some nice wood.
Turn a natural edge bowl and rough out 3 bowls.
Quick dry a rough out in the microwave. Put two on the shelf to dry slowly.

You have 2 bowls that will be finished soon and 2 for next year.
...

I like this part, start with 3 bowls and have 2 for now and 2 for later , is that 4 in total

 

[hockenbery]

I like this part, start with 3 bowls and have 2 for now and 2 for later , is that 4 in total

Always need a bit of magic.
The trickery here is the natural edge bowl.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Always need a bit of magic.
The trickery here is the natural edge bowl.

 

[Raul McCai]

I have a small toaster oven that I had given to me. I'm thinking of using it to dry small pieces of wood. It fits on a countertop or benchtop. It goes up to 450 deg. or broil. I'm sure that is too hot. Your suggestions as to temperature and approximate time needed. A lot of wood I have has been in the dry for ages but I'm always looking for more wood. Can't have enough wood! Thanks.

At about 5:03 in the video he details how he microwaves huge pieces

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knc0IT4PdFo

 

[Mike Johnson]

You could do the same thing with a small kitchen microwave, you would need to bypass the timer control
and use a short duration cycle timer to turn the microwave on and off on a predetermined time cycle.
They make ice cube timer relays and small digital cycle timers that can do this.
Or you can place the wood blank in the microwave and heat the wood up numerous times throughout the day.
Plenty of ways to dry wood when you get down to it. I have boiled wood blanks in a pressure cooker numerous times.

 

[John Torchick]

I looked at Virgil's video and am envious of his huge shop including the overhead hoist to carry logs to the lathe. I would like to have seen a detail of the setup of the oversize microwave.
Three things I noticed. One, it is dangerous to climb on stacked logs. His weight could cause the logs to shift and likely ruin the wave in his hair. Second, a closeup of him in the shop using the chain saw didn't show any hearing protection. Third, the chain in the saw in the shop looked to be a bit loose.
Sorry to be a critic but one thing we all look at is safety.
What does he get for one of his oversize turnings? Impressive shop and gorgeous turnings! Thanks for sharing the link.

 

[stu senator]

My understanding of a microwave cavity is that the size must match the frequency in some way. As a ME I don't really want to know (as I will not really understand) but there had to be a good bit of engineering to get that to work or there is a good bit of waste of power.

 

[Mike Johnson]

When your busy making artistic pieces of that size and number, you end up having priorities.
His passion for the art exceeds his willingness to practice safety based on everyone's opinions.
We could all post a video of our work in progress and everyone will always find fault with how we
proceed with running equipment, using p.p.e., etc.
The risk he is taking is based on his comfort level and experience, I work with high voltage systems and
work in the Pyrotechnique industry, there are many days that I have the potential for bad things to happen,
my experience and knowledge is the only thing that has kept me out of trouble. Using a lathe would be outlawed
if OSHA had their way, a large object spinning at a high rate of speed with a sharp tool in your hand cutting into
the wood blank waiting for a catch, most people watching this practice would consider a wood turner to be unsafe.

 

[John Torchick]

Mike, I understand what you are saying. I have driven through Atlanta during rush hour on Friday evening. My biggest thing was crawling up the stack of logs. With my luck one on the bottom would roll. Like taking the orange or apple off the bottom row?

 

[Mike Johnson]

My biggest concern is when someone puts other people at risk, we all take measured risks each day
in life. I used to race motorcycles in my younger days and rode go fast motorcycles on the street, I see
people do this each day on the freeway, I would never take that risk knowing what I know now and seeing
the lack of attention by other drivers using their cell phones. Turning big wood and using a chain saw on a
turning billet is definitely not a task for a novice.

 

[Bill Boehme]

My understanding of a microwave cavity is that the size must match the frequency in some way. As a ME I don't really want to know (as I will not really understand) but there had to be a good bit of engineering to get that to work or there is a good bit of waste of power.

You're thinking of the resonant cavities of the magnetron, the electronic device that generates the microwave frequency. The dimensions of the oven itself are based on functional needs such as fitting within a given space and what can fit inside (turkey comes to mind for some reason). It also needs to be adequately sealed to prevent RF leakage. My thought about the improvised device in the video doesn't come anywhere near meeting safety standards. I hope that for his sake that he isn't anywhere near it when it is operating.

 

[stu senator]

I knew there was a cavity somewere.

There was a gasket on the door to the chamber but it did not look conductive, just rubber.

Stu

 

[Bill Boehme]

I knew there was a cavity somewere.

There was a gasket on the door to the chamber but it did not look conductive, just rubber.

Stu

I didn't notice if the rig in the video had a door seal, but the gasket on the door of real microwave ovens is able to provide the necessary shielding even though it may inot n some cases look like a metal braid. I don't recall the allowable emission level, but it requires keeping the leakage level extremely low. This means that any other potential leakage point like the ventilation fan and light also need to be dealt with. At the wavelengths used in a microwave oven, a perforated grille with small holes makes an effective shield, but a slit even if very narrow can allow a lot of leakage and therefore is a more difficult design issue.