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Does anyone make a living...
- Thread starter chitswood
- Start date
Check out the current Summer edition of the AW Journal. Mike Mahoney has a whole article on how to make a living at it.
earning a living...
The short answers are:
yes, yes - but it's hard work, and, well, I'm not sure you'll get an answer to the last question. Would you post your annual earnings if asked to?
The short answers are:
yes, yes - but it's hard work, and, well, I'm not sure you'll get an answer to the last question. Would you post your annual earnings if asked to?
R
Ron Sardo
Guest
Since you are still in high school, I would suggest getting into college and choosing a related career. You can always use turning as a source of a second income.
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Do the arithmetic!
Chitswood,
Rather than ask others how much they make, as Andy suggested that might be fruitless, start with a basic question that you can ask yourself.
Question: How much do I need to make a year in order for this to be a reasonable career?
Having decided on a figure, let's choose $40,000 here just for grins and giggles. That means that when you figure in your costs, you need to move at least $60,000 worth of finished products through the door. Now figure that you sell 100 large bowls for $100 each. That is $10,000. Just $50,000 to go. Suppose that you get lucky and sell 100 turned boxes for $40 each and 150 ornaments for $40 each. There's another $10,000. Maybe you can sell 200 smaller bowls for $50 each, to give us the third $10,000. Note that we have met one-half our needed amount and by now we have worked our tails into the ground. You MIGHT be able to make this many items, but I strongly doubt that you can sell half of what we have supposedly done in my ficticious business here.
The point I am trying to make is that a turner without name recognition will have a hard time selling enough to do well at it. Many who have succeeded have had a VERY supportive spouse whose day job provided a salary AND HEALTH BENEFITS.
Why do I know this? Thirty years ago I went through this very same mental exercise because I had a driving desire to have a cabinet shop and make furniture. I was within 24 hours of going to look at a cabinet shop in East Ryegate, Vermont, when reality struck and I gave up on the idea and "kept the day job". A few weeks later I got a severe case of tendonitis in my elbow and could not work in my shop for a month or two. Beads of sweat rolled down my forehead as I realized what I had almost done.
So, do the arithmetic, and realize that you are probably optimistic by a factor of at least TWO, and don't quit your day job. 🙂
Chitswood,
Rather than ask others how much they make, as Andy suggested that might be fruitless, start with a basic question that you can ask yourself.
Question: How much do I need to make a year in order for this to be a reasonable career?
Having decided on a figure, let's choose $40,000 here just for grins and giggles. That means that when you figure in your costs, you need to move at least $60,000 worth of finished products through the door. Now figure that you sell 100 large bowls for $100 each. That is $10,000. Just $50,000 to go. Suppose that you get lucky and sell 100 turned boxes for $40 each and 150 ornaments for $40 each. There's another $10,000. Maybe you can sell 200 smaller bowls for $50 each, to give us the third $10,000. Note that we have met one-half our needed amount and by now we have worked our tails into the ground. You MIGHT be able to make this many items, but I strongly doubt that you can sell half of what we have supposedly done in my ficticious business here.
The point I am trying to make is that a turner without name recognition will have a hard time selling enough to do well at it. Many who have succeeded have had a VERY supportive spouse whose day job provided a salary AND HEALTH BENEFITS.
Why do I know this? Thirty years ago I went through this very same mental exercise because I had a driving desire to have a cabinet shop and make furniture. I was within 24 hours of going to look at a cabinet shop in East Ryegate, Vermont, when reality struck and I gave up on the idea and "kept the day job". A few weeks later I got a severe case of tendonitis in my elbow and could not work in my shop for a month or two. Beads of sweat rolled down my forehead as I realized what I had almost done.
So, do the arithmetic, and realize that you are probably optimistic by a factor of at least TWO, and don't quit your day job. 🙂
Max Taylor
In Memoriam
making a living turning
[That is the most realistic and eye-opening answer I have heard on this subject.Never consider making a living turning up front. It is better to grow into it. Thanks again, dustpan.On the aside, I dont know why I am told my message is too short and I have to lengthen it when I have seen much shorter posts on here. Any answers out there? Dustpan. Here we go again, still too short. What is going on?
[That is the most realistic and eye-opening answer I have heard on this subject.Never consider making a living turning up front. It is better to grow into it. Thanks again, dustpan.On the aside, I dont know why I am told my message is too short and I have to lengthen it when I have seen much shorter posts on here. Any answers out there? Dustpan. Here we go again, still too short. What is going on?
“Can you make a living doing that?†I am asked this question often. My favorite answer is, “To make a small fortune at woodturning, be sure to start with a large fortune.†Woodturning has many rewards, but getting rich is not one of them.
Consider that less than 5% of the artists in all field in this country support themselves with their art. The rest teach, wait tables, do brain surgery, drive trucks, paint houses and whatever it takes to provide for their families.
If you get to go to a Symposium, whether National or one of the regional gatherings, ask the demonstrators and lecturers what they do. You may be surprized at the answers you get.
m
If you get to go to a Symposium, whether National or one of the regional gatherings, ask the demonstrators and lecturers what they do. You may be surprized at the answers you get.
m
A great answer...
That was a fantastic answer,Ed, and more constructive than my own.
I suppose I fall somewhere between two of the answers given so far...my other half is a Teacher, and works full time, she is also a Teddy Bear Artist the rest of the time sells the vast majority of her Bears to collectors in the US. My "full time turning" is sandwiched between the day-to-day running of the home and care of our five year old, Ellie.
This setup seems to work for us but takes organisation and sacrifice. But the sacrifices are not noticed because we are both doing what we want to do not what we have to do. I doubt it would work for everybody, in fact, I'm sure it wouldn't, but I'm awfully glad it works for us.
Turning full time wasn't a conscious move, either. I only began three years ago, and I was turning as a hobby, like most of us, and it then it took over. The success at fairs and the like that followed forced me to up my productivity and here I am today...and If I didn't sell another thing? I'd carry on just the same and re-think the rest...
That was a fantastic answer,Ed, and more constructive than my own.
I suppose I fall somewhere between two of the answers given so far...my other half is a Teacher, and works full time, she is also a Teddy Bear Artist the rest of the time sells the vast majority of her Bears to collectors in the US. My "full time turning" is sandwiched between the day-to-day running of the home and care of our five year old, Ellie.
This setup seems to work for us but takes organisation and sacrifice. But the sacrifices are not noticed because we are both doing what we want to do not what we have to do. I doubt it would work for everybody, in fact, I'm sure it wouldn't, but I'm awfully glad it works for us.
Turning full time wasn't a conscious move, either. I only began three years ago, and I was turning as a hobby, like most of us, and it then it took over. The success at fairs and the like that followed forced me to up my productivity and here I am today...and If I didn't sell another thing? I'd carry on just the same and re-think the rest...
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
I remember sitting in on a dinner with several big name turners one time. I was in awe of them and was sure they were all making big money based on the prices they were getting for thier work. I was shocked when they told me that they would really have trouble making ends meet if thier spouses didn't make good money.
Since then I've been selling work part time and have occasionally thought about going full time. Then the reality sets in. First of all I figured I would hav to work at least 6 days a week to make enough work to sell and get even close to my salary that I earn today.(it ain't anywhere near 40K). Then I realized that you still have to get that work to market. That means at least 2 to 3 days a week spent marketing your work, selling in craft shows, calling galleries, packing and shipping work etc. I had not even figured in expenses such as buying wood, finishes, sandpaper, travel expenses, lodging, entry fees etc.
My suggestions. Take a small business class so you can properly learn to manage and asses your finances. Go to a school somewhere where you can speed up the learning process of both skills at turning and marketing. I like to recommend our school of course but then I'm partial. www.tntech.edu/craftcenter You can get a 2 year certificate in woodworking or you can take classes on the main campus and get a BFA degree while working on your woodturning. This way you will have an art degree to fall back on if the independant artist thing doesn't work out.
Since then I've been selling work part time and have occasionally thought about going full time. Then the reality sets in. First of all I figured I would hav to work at least 6 days a week to make enough work to sell and get even close to my salary that I earn today.(it ain't anywhere near 40K). Then I realized that you still have to get that work to market. That means at least 2 to 3 days a week spent marketing your work, selling in craft shows, calling galleries, packing and shipping work etc. I had not even figured in expenses such as buying wood, finishes, sandpaper, travel expenses, lodging, entry fees etc.
My suggestions. Take a small business class so you can properly learn to manage and asses your finances. Go to a school somewhere where you can speed up the learning process of both skills at turning and marketing. I like to recommend our school of course but then I'm partial. www.tntech.edu/craftcenter You can get a 2 year certificate in woodworking or you can take classes on the main campus and get a BFA degree while working on your woodturning. This way you will have an art degree to fall back on if the independant artist thing doesn't work out.
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john lucas said:
Brings back memories. My sister's second husband, HS grad, Navy electronics background, worked as production manager in a terminal manufacturing facility. My brother, who had just completed his MFA in drama came to him for help in obtaining a summer job while he played resume games. The HR guy asked my BiL what an MFA holder would be qualified for, and janitor was all they could come up with. Swept floors as he chased employment for another year before conning mom and dad out of supporting two years in Boston and an MBA so he could get a job.
Best advice in the thread is that you have to be established to the point that you can sell your name, not the piece. Lots of people can turn.
There's a good article on a turner making their living this way in the Summer AAW journal. Funny no one has mentioned it...
Mike Mahoney's the name
and turnings my game.
I don't do retail,
but I do work off my tail.
Wholesale filling of orders
for niche markets..
Oh well. Never claimed to be a poet... 😎
Mike Mahoney's the name
and turnings my game.
I don't do retail,
but I do work off my tail.
Wholesale filling of orders
for niche markets..
Oh well. Never claimed to be a poet... 😎
Career?????
I am one of the lucky ones....retired from a REAL job, having turned as a hobby for 15 years. Any day I can sell a piece (all my work is sold by word of mouth only) and be able to buy some finish or a strange hunk of wood or salt some away for that next "dream machine" is a great day!!!! Wood turning is an art, and addictive, but is NOT the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow!! Enjoy it for what it is. Good luck.
I am one of the lucky ones....retired from a REAL job, having turned as a hobby for 15 years. Any day I can sell a piece (all my work is sold by word of mouth only) and be able to buy some finish or a strange hunk of wood or salt some away for that next "dream machine" is a great day!!!! Wood turning is an art, and addictive, but is NOT the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow!! Enjoy it for what it is. Good luck.
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Keep your day job .......
2. Perhaps your creativity lies in woodturning.
Bill
1. Check out the very first response to the question!underdog said:
2. Perhaps your creativity lies in woodturning.
Bill
Tips from a full time turner that makes a living at it
First work 37 years on a good job with a good retirement check at the end
Second Start drawing social security
Third Invest all your life in real estate, precious metals, stocks bonds
Forth get your wife to go back to work full time
Now I am ready to do wood working full time and guess what the show we did this week end was a perfect show, that mean you did not sale anthing so you don't have to fill out any paper work.
I expect any day to be arrested for not paying my self anywhere near the legal min wage.
Its a great hobby, but DO NOT QUIT THE DAY JOB.
First work 37 years on a good job with a good retirement check at the end
Second Start drawing social security
Third Invest all your life in real estate, precious metals, stocks bonds
Forth get your wife to go back to work full time
Now I am ready to do wood working full time and guess what the show we did this week end was a perfect show, that mean you did not sale anthing so you don't have to fill out any paper work.
I expect any day to be arrested for not paying my self anywhere near the legal min wage.
Its a great hobby, but DO NOT QUIT THE DAY JOB.
We just had Michael Hosaluk here this weekend to demo. He talked a bit about his switch from cabinetry to woodturning as a profession. What it involves is, like everyone said, alot of rapid production work and sources to buy it, with the occasional hour squirelled away to turn "just for you." Years of this and an international reputation will gain you an income from demos, tool sales, commission work, and high end galleries. At that point, you actually get to spend significant time on "just for you" stuff, but it's hard earned time.
The friends that I know who are trying to make a living at woodturning pretty consistantly do it by becoming teachers and demonstrators. This funds their actual turning.
Finally:
What did the proffessional woodturner do when he hit the lottery?
He sold his work till the money ran out.
Dietrich
The friends that I know who are trying to make a living at woodturning pretty consistantly do it by becoming teachers and demonstrators. This funds their actual turning.
Finally:
What did the proffessional woodturner do when he hit the lottery?
He sold his work till the money ran out.
Dietrich
boehme said:
Whoops! Guess the memory isn't so good either. 😱
Ed has said it best. His answer works for individual sales outlets/methods too! I did that exercise on going to art shows. First I figured out the marketing costs, professional pictures, nice tent & display supplies, travel cost etc etc. Then said OK how much do I want to make to justify the investment. Now, how much inventory (platters, bowls, boxes) do I need to have to sell that much? Last I figured out how long it would take me to produce those items versus how much time I turn per week. The result was I'll be ready for about the 2011 Art Show circuit. I had dinner with a professional bronze scluptor and showed him my calculations. He said I was too smart to be an artist because an artist would never figure that out until about his fifth year of doing shows. So now I sell thru word of mouth and a 'gallery' of sorts.
When I retire in about 10 years I hope to use turning to supplement retirement savings etc but I wouldn't expect it to be called a 'living' more of a lifestyle.
Frank
When I retire in about 10 years I hope to use turning to supplement retirement savings etc but I wouldn't expect it to be called a 'living' more of a lifestyle.
Frank
When I retire in about 10 years I hope to use turning to supplement retirement savings etc but I wouldn't expect it to be called a 'living' more of a lifestyle. Frank[/QUOTE said:
Retirement Occupation
I agree, Frank. My hope is that when I retire in about 4 years, I can start making the roounds of some of the more upscale art fairs. I don't expect it to support me but it will make the traveling that the LOML and I want to do tax deductable and maybe even pay expenses.
Terence
I agree, Frank. My hope is that when I retire in about 4 years, I can start making the roounds of some of the more upscale art fairs. I don't expect it to support me but it will make the traveling that the LOML and I want to do tax deductable and maybe even pay expenses.
Terence
maybe it's the question that is wrong?
this is a very interesting thread and i enjoyed reading all the answers.
i don't see the info on this kid that he is in high school but i will assume that's true info from another post somewhere.
i want to add my 2cents and i may be out of the norm on this forum but here's what i think.
i want to commend the kid for even thinking abt making a living thru art. i ask: is woodturning an art or a craft?
i am not a woodtuner; i don't own a lathe; but i troll this board all the time looking listening and learning from all the wealth of knowledge.
i am a wood sculptor. i earn a living as an artist and have done so against all odds for 15 years.
what i want to say is: don't let the mathematics of earning a living stop you from trying. you don't have to use your lathe to create work that has been done before. if you do, then don't expect to earn a living but if you REALLY have the passion to create art full-time and invest your life into it, you just might succeed.
a college degree and health insurance and a mortgage and a volvo and a studio and a retirement plan are not requirements for a good life. i happen to have all of them but it's very stressful and sometimes i wish i lived more simply with less debt and a smaller liability. but alas i like stuff. i work 6-7 days a week 360 days a year.
you have to be smart. you have to develop some cache or be lucky to be born with it. you have to put yourself in the right place at the right time with the right attitude and the perserverance and competitive edge to succeed.
it's very competitive in the art world.
but listen to these other guys. get a college degree first and have something you can do when you first get started. be sure your partner-to-be shares your same vision and goals. just remember: always make art no matter what your mood is or budget is. you can find wood in the frames of furniture people throw in the trash. you can find wood on the beach. you can trade for wood by doing odd jobs for the old lady with the fallen walnut tree in her yard.
people said i was crazy [parents, siblings] and worried abt me. i AM crazy and they should worry but not for my happiness.
do the math: a life lived toward the goal of fulfillment = success...even if you need to compromise along the way and do things you'd rather not do to make it work.
this is a very interesting thread and i enjoyed reading all the answers.
i don't see the info on this kid that he is in high school but i will assume that's true info from another post somewhere.
i want to add my 2cents and i may be out of the norm on this forum but here's what i think.
i want to commend the kid for even thinking abt making a living thru art. i ask: is woodturning an art or a craft?
i am not a woodtuner; i don't own a lathe; but i troll this board all the time looking listening and learning from all the wealth of knowledge.
i am a wood sculptor. i earn a living as an artist and have done so against all odds for 15 years.
what i want to say is: don't let the mathematics of earning a living stop you from trying. you don't have to use your lathe to create work that has been done before. if you do, then don't expect to earn a living but if you REALLY have the passion to create art full-time and invest your life into it, you just might succeed.
a college degree and health insurance and a mortgage and a volvo and a studio and a retirement plan are not requirements for a good life. i happen to have all of them but it's very stressful and sometimes i wish i lived more simply with less debt and a smaller liability. but alas i like stuff. i work 6-7 days a week 360 days a year.
you have to be smart. you have to develop some cache or be lucky to be born with it. you have to put yourself in the right place at the right time with the right attitude and the perserverance and competitive edge to succeed.
it's very competitive in the art world.
but listen to these other guys. get a college degree first and have something you can do when you first get started. be sure your partner-to-be shares your same vision and goals. just remember: always make art no matter what your mood is or budget is. you can find wood in the frames of furniture people throw in the trash. you can find wood on the beach. you can trade for wood by doing odd jobs for the old lady with the fallen walnut tree in her yard.
people said i was crazy [parents, siblings] and worried abt me. i AM crazy and they should worry but not for my happiness.
do the math: a life lived toward the goal of fulfillment = success...even if you need to compromise along the way and do things you'd rather not do to make it work.
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FZZ - Read Chitwood's post!
It always helps to really read the post with the question before submitting an answer. His basic question was "How much does a full-time woodturner make a year?" In other words, he has his eye on the material side of life. There is not one scintilla in his post about being an artist or wood sculptor.
I'm sure that we all wish you well, FZZ, and are glad that you have had a life of fulfillment as a wood artist. But that may not be what Chitwood is seeking. He may choose NOT to drink the Koolaid being offered by the artists, so he needs to do the arithmetic if he wants an answer to HIS question.
Don't get me wrong, I am not against a life of fulfillment in art, it's just that it may not work for everyone.
It always helps to really read the post with the question before submitting an answer. His basic question was "How much does a full-time woodturner make a year?" In other words, he has his eye on the material side of life. There is not one scintilla in his post about being an artist or wood sculptor.
I'm sure that we all wish you well, FZZ, and are glad that you have had a life of fulfillment as a wood artist. But that may not be what Chitwood is seeking. He may choose NOT to drink the Koolaid being offered by the artists, so he needs to do the arithmetic if he wants an answer to HIS question.
Don't get me wrong, I am not against a life of fulfillment in art, it's just that it may not work for everyone.
reading "into" chitwood's post
since the name chitwood can't be too common i will assume he's from the family that sells wood on ebay and elsewhere. i have bought from them.
i read "into" the post that he's wondering abt the realm and why not add to the widest field possible when considering the realm?
your condescension for artists with your reference to "kool-aid" is too bad. i'm sorry your koolaid must have been laced with lemonjuice rather than the cherry flavor the cult offered me.
since the name chitwood can't be too common i will assume he's from the family that sells wood on ebay and elsewhere. i have bought from them.
i read "into" the post that he's wondering abt the realm and why not add to the widest field possible when considering the realm?
your condescension for artists with your reference to "kool-aid" is too bad. i'm sorry your koolaid must have been laced with lemonjuice rather than the cherry flavor the cult offered me.
PS: why not tell the kid how much you make$$$$?
by the way, why not? since ed suggests we stick to the question and only the question.
last year my wife and i brought in $129,000 from art. a very good year.
now for the math!:
we reinvested in labor, materials, expenses, machinery, advertising about $100,000. not because we had to but because we wanted to and that's how we always do it. we always reinvest more than we can afford and we live in constant fear of the next Root Canal or busted water main.
but after the reinvestment we have the new roof, the new sanders, the new slab, the 400bf of mahogany, etc.
you are right Ed. risk like that is not for everyone.
how much did you make last year? how much did you reinvest in your art?
it's a good question.
by the way, why not? since ed suggests we stick to the question and only the question.
last year my wife and i brought in $129,000 from art. a very good year.
now for the math!:
we reinvested in labor, materials, expenses, machinery, advertising about $100,000. not because we had to but because we wanted to and that's how we always do it. we always reinvest more than we can afford and we live in constant fear of the next Root Canal or busted water main.
but after the reinvestment we have the new roof, the new sanders, the new slab, the 400bf of mahogany, etc.
you are right Ed. risk like that is not for everyone.
how much did you make last year? how much did you reinvest in your art?
it's a good question.
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Surprise!
Sorry, FZZ, it's not about YOU. And baiting others is in general not beneficial. 🙄
Sorry, FZZ, it's not about YOU. And baiting others is in general not beneficial. 🙄
Bill Grumbine
In Memorium
I'll jump in here with a few observations as a turner who is making it - sort of. I started my woodworking business 13 years ago. It grew out of two things. One, we needed someone to stay home with our newly born third daughter, as we could not see putting her in daycare at eight weeks old. SWMBO worked less hours, 37.5 compared to 70-80, drove less miles, 3 each way compared to 51 each way, had better benefits, made more money, and got weekends and holidays off. Two, I had the advantage of a hobby with the potential to become a business.
We struggled for a lot of years. In addition to watching the baby we pulled the two older kids out of public school because of the problems there with both teachers and students, not to mention the administration. I started schooling the kids and working "second shift" in the shop after SWMBO came home in the evening. I also worked weekends.
I am also personally acquainted with several very well known woodworkers and woodworking authors. The one thing we all have in common beyond our love for the craft is our wives have good jobs. As I travel about doing demonstrations and teaching, it brings in good income, but I tell people my wife has a good job so I can do this. I could do even more if it weren't for the kids, but they are the highest priority in our lives at the moment. Getting them a proper education and seeing them be sucessful in their chosen lifestyles has been very gratifying. As an aside I was talking with a good friend of mine today, and we were talking about the value of diversity - not the ethnic kind either. I teach, I have a successful DVD, with another about to be released, I do both art and functional turning, and I build furniture. I am doing better than a lot of my contemporaries in many disciplines who have chosen to focus on a single aspect of their craft. For example, the show circuit is way down right now, with no end of the downturn in sight. Since I do not rely on shows solely for my income, it does not affect me much.
There are a lot of people in our culture today who buy into the "must have" syndrome. There is a huge difference between what we need and what we want, and what we think we need to have is often more in line with what we want more so than what we need. I have been fortunate in that after those first few years of struggle I have been able to plow a lot of what I earn back into my business. That serves two purposes. It improves my working conditions, and it keeps the government's hands off of a lot of my money. But we work hard at not living beyond our means. That is not an easy thing to do in today's culture.
To come back to your question, it becomes more of, can you make enough to live in the manner to which you have become accustomed, or are you willing to make adjustments to that lifestyle to accomodate your chosen profession. New cars and big houses do not often go with the woodworking lifestyle, so it all depends on what you think you have to have. Ed has some very good info for you, and I can tell you from personal experience with him that you should listen very closely to what he has to say. Do the math, and then figure out if you can make it work for you. This goes for any profession/lifestyle combination. Unfortunately, too many people have the itch, but not the scratch to make it happen.
You are young and have lots of time to develop a plan, so make the best use of that time and you will do well.
Bill
We struggled for a lot of years. In addition to watching the baby we pulled the two older kids out of public school because of the problems there with both teachers and students, not to mention the administration. I started schooling the kids and working "second shift" in the shop after SWMBO came home in the evening. I also worked weekends.
I am also personally acquainted with several very well known woodworkers and woodworking authors. The one thing we all have in common beyond our love for the craft is our wives have good jobs. As I travel about doing demonstrations and teaching, it brings in good income, but I tell people my wife has a good job so I can do this. I could do even more if it weren't for the kids, but they are the highest priority in our lives at the moment. Getting them a proper education and seeing them be sucessful in their chosen lifestyles has been very gratifying. As an aside I was talking with a good friend of mine today, and we were talking about the value of diversity - not the ethnic kind either. I teach, I have a successful DVD, with another about to be released, I do both art and functional turning, and I build furniture. I am doing better than a lot of my contemporaries in many disciplines who have chosen to focus on a single aspect of their craft. For example, the show circuit is way down right now, with no end of the downturn in sight. Since I do not rely on shows solely for my income, it does not affect me much.
There are a lot of people in our culture today who buy into the "must have" syndrome. There is a huge difference between what we need and what we want, and what we think we need to have is often more in line with what we want more so than what we need. I have been fortunate in that after those first few years of struggle I have been able to plow a lot of what I earn back into my business. That serves two purposes. It improves my working conditions, and it keeps the government's hands off of a lot of my money. But we work hard at not living beyond our means. That is not an easy thing to do in today's culture.
To come back to your question, it becomes more of, can you make enough to live in the manner to which you have become accustomed, or are you willing to make adjustments to that lifestyle to accomodate your chosen profession. New cars and big houses do not often go with the woodworking lifestyle, so it all depends on what you think you have to have. Ed has some very good info for you, and I can tell you from personal experience with him that you should listen very closely to what he has to say. Do the math, and then figure out if you can make it work for you. This goes for any profession/lifestyle combination. Unfortunately, too many people have the itch, but not the scratch to make it happen.
You are young and have lots of time to develop a plan, so make the best use of that time and you will do well.
Bill
Chitswood,
Maybe stating everything said here in a different way would help. I think Fzz is saying if you love woodturning, or any other art form then pursue it. And I think Ed and the rest of us are saying "if you go that route, do it with your eyes wide open."
I have a sculptor friend around my age (late 40's). He dearly loves what he does, is very good, and for whatever reasons he is always struggling. He could stop any time and do something else that earns him more, and sometimes he has to do something else to keep from losing what little he has, but he returns to full time sculpting as soon as he can. His heart is in it, but his eyes are open. Who knows if he will ever make it big, or even do more than barely get by? But in the meantime he is doing what he loves, and he is doing it consciously and with full awareness of what that means financially. He is not looking for the "Big Breakthrough" and banking on it happening. If it happens....wonderful, and if it doesn't, he keeps doing what he loves, and doing whatever's needed so he can keep doing what he loves over the long haul.
By the way. Overall he is a pretty happy person. A touch stressed $$ wise
more often than he would like, but pretty happy. That counts for a lot. I don't know how many artists in his situation that applies to overall.
And Ed. I hope this all doesn't fall into the "KoolAid" category. No dig intended to either you or Fzz by that by the way. I am just trying to be realistic without discouraging someone from pursuing what they want.
Good luck to you Chitswood! And holler at everyone here for help in your craft, and advise and feedback.
Dave
Maybe stating everything said here in a different way would help. I think Fzz is saying if you love woodturning, or any other art form then pursue it. And I think Ed and the rest of us are saying "if you go that route, do it with your eyes wide open."
I have a sculptor friend around my age (late 40's). He dearly loves what he does, is very good, and for whatever reasons he is always struggling. He could stop any time and do something else that earns him more, and sometimes he has to do something else to keep from losing what little he has, but he returns to full time sculpting as soon as he can. His heart is in it, but his eyes are open. Who knows if he will ever make it big, or even do more than barely get by? But in the meantime he is doing what he loves, and he is doing it consciously and with full awareness of what that means financially. He is not looking for the "Big Breakthrough" and banking on it happening. If it happens....wonderful, and if it doesn't, he keeps doing what he loves, and doing whatever's needed so he can keep doing what he loves over the long haul.
By the way. Overall he is a pretty happy person. A touch stressed $$ wise
more often than he would like, but pretty happy. That counts for a lot. I don't know how many artists in his situation that applies to overall.
And Ed. I hope this all doesn't fall into the "KoolAid" category. No dig intended to either you or Fzz by that by the way. I am just trying to be realistic without discouraging someone from pursuing what they want.
Good luck to you Chitswood! And holler at everyone here for help in your craft, and advise and feedback.
Dave
Just wanted to thank everyone for sharing their thoughts on this topic. This thread has confirmed what I was starting to suspect with regards to the economics of woodturning. Someday I hope to run a positive cash flow on my hobby (at least pay for my tools). For now, I need to keep my day job and focus on my family. 😀
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Martin Braun said:
That modest goal is easily attained, and you can "bank" on relaxation, fulfilment in self-expression, and maybe even catch a 'well done" from the spouse on the odd occasion.
Reason I took first retirement from the service was my second kid - 14th anniversary present. I was gone so much for my eldest. Picture the three-foot tall kid running to and hugging a sage-green nomex leg and calling it "daddy?" Wasn't me. I was four feet away.
Be a spouse, a parent, a teacher and an artist. Or craftsman, if you can't do art. It's a rich life on its own. "No one, on his deathbed says 'I wish I'd spent more time at the office.' " Work earns money, so expect to have to do it, but find something that lets you leave it behind when you punch out.
Well, maybe keep a pager at home so you can answer calls and keep them alive until the ambulance comes.
Great Thread...
...unfortuantley (as I sit at my desk at my real job) I haven't been able to read every post yet. But, I think Frank said it best and first, and it has been my plan since I started turning. I have no illusions about making a living turning wood - something to replace what I currently depend on. Rather it is something to keep me busy in retirement, and to supplement what I - sadly - anticipate will be very frugal retirement savings. As an added benefit, and the best one right now as a paycheck to paycheck employee, is the tax advantages of having a home business. I do a local craft show every year, and sell some tops, bowls, goblets, stoppers etc. What I don't sell at the show, I take to a high-end toy store that loves my tops and wands. I don't make a ton 'o money, but it puts a few bucks in my pocket, I gain continuing experience turning, and I write off my tools and materials, not to mention part of my mortgage, utilities, and everything else my accountant and I can come up with. All ya gotta do is show some revenue, and keep it on the 'up and up' and relatively honest to keep the Feds happy and off your back.
Brian
...unfortuantley (as I sit at my desk at my real job) I haven't been able to read every post yet. But, I think Frank said it best and first, and it has been my plan since I started turning. I have no illusions about making a living turning wood - something to replace what I currently depend on. Rather it is something to keep me busy in retirement, and to supplement what I - sadly - anticipate will be very frugal retirement savings. As an added benefit, and the best one right now as a paycheck to paycheck employee, is the tax advantages of having a home business. I do a local craft show every year, and sell some tops, bowls, goblets, stoppers etc. What I don't sell at the show, I take to a high-end toy store that loves my tops and wands. I don't make a ton 'o money, but it puts a few bucks in my pocket, I gain continuing experience turning, and I write off my tools and materials, not to mention part of my mortgage, utilities, and everything else my accountant and I can come up with. All ya gotta do is show some revenue, and keep it on the 'up and up' and relatively honest to keep the Feds happy and off your back.
Brian
MichaelMouse said:
and in that same order. 🙂