Do you prefer rainbows, or horseshoes?

[Odie]

When looking at the end-grain of a block of wood, you will generally see either a rainbow, or horseshoe......(bowl foot facing down). The exception will be most quarter-sawn lumber.

What criteria do you use for choosing one grain pattern over the other?

For myself, I pretty much always go with the horseshoe, or "U" shape to the grain. It seems to end up with the most interesting bowls.

For something like a natural edge......you aren't going to have a whole lot of choice for that, if the pith is not a part of the end result.

There are times when cracks, knots, punky rot, etc., will play a part in the decision, but all things considered....the horseshoe will be first choice.

What's your thoughts?

ooc

edit: This should have been in the "newbie" forum......but, it's here for now.......Just wondering what kind of input there will be on this.........?

 

[Robert Manning]

For me, Odie, it depends on the wood. I think some woods look better with the horseshoe configuration and some look better the other way.

 

[Odie]

For me, Odie, it depends on the wood. I think some woods look better with the horseshoe configuration and some look better the other way.

Hello Robert......

My guess is you are in the company of others with your assessment. What method produces the most pleasing results, is certainly in "the eye of the beholder".

As mentioned, natural edge bowls will necessitate grain orientation in a certain direction in order to get the bark, or exterior tree surface in proper position........but, if that were not the case, it's my opinion that a little erratic grain pattern is more pleasing than the concentric circles one gets with the "rainbow" grain orientation.......

I'm surprised there isn't more input on this, but I guess I really shouldn't be.......!

ooc

 

[MichaelMouse]

Hello Robert......

I'm surprised there isn't more input on this, but I guess I really shouldn't be.......!

ooc

Since you will get broadening rings with the heart up and narrowing with the heart down, your only real choice is where center falls. So what's to discuss?

 

[Odie]

Since you will get broadening rings with the heart up and narrowing with the heart down, your only real choice is where center falls. So what's to discuss?

Your preference..........😀

ooc

 

[john lucas]

I think it's more important to discuss how you use the design of the figure. You need to turn enough to have an understanding of how cut cut into the log and what it will produce.
If you mount the bowls on a screw chuck or just screw a faceplate on them you can't adjust where the figure will be if it doesn't line up exactly like you thought. By mounting it between centers you have control over these factors. You can move a defect outside the bowl and get rid of it. You can adjust the blank so the defect is in a better spot. You can adjust how the sap wood will appear and where. You may not get the biggest bowl possible but you can get a much better balance between the figure and the shape of the vessel.
John Jordan's video on woodmovement and the aesthetics of wood will help you learn to predict the results.
Here's an example of what proper grain alignment can do for you. I call this piece "Born again" you can take that any way you wan but it took a lot of effort to get the figure in the wood where I wanted it and then I actually made a sketch of the fetus, photographed it, put it in the enlarger and projected it onto the bowl so I could calculate the size and to adjust the fetus until it fit the shape of the figure in the bowl.

 

[john lucas]

Sorry, I'll have to find the larger version of this bowl. You can't see the grain lines because it won't enlarge.

 

[fgvanatta]

Originally posted by Odie: What method produces the most pleasing results, is certainly in "the eye of the beholder".

Exactly so. Given 10 pieces of wood exactly alike and 10 woodturners you would probably get at least half a dozen different results, each thinking his was the best.

Originally posted by Odie: I'm surprised there isn't more input on this, but I guess I really shouldn't be.......!

I'm not exactly sure what that's supposed to mean. You want to clarify?

 

[Odie]

Originally posted by Odie: What method produces the most pleasing results, is certainly in "the eye of the beholder".

Exactly so. Given 10 pieces of wood exactly alike and 10 woodturners you would probably get at least half a dozen different results, each thinking his was the best.

Originally posted by Odie: I'm surprised there isn't more input on this, but I guess I really shouldn't be.......!

I'm not exactly sure what that's supposed to mean. You want to clarify?

Howdy fgvanatta.......

On the first point, I agree completely. Woodturners are a very opinionated bunch. There are very few things where universal thinking applies......and, most things result in conflicting conclusions.

On my comment......well.......there really are only two options for most blocks of wood......rainbow or horseshoe. If there were many options and intuitions, then there might have been a basis for continuing discussion......and that's why I wasn't surprised there wasn't more input.

I guess the reason I asked in the first place, is to "fish" for opinions that I hadn't been exposed to yet. Who knows, someone still might come along and offer a "revelation" related to this subject......but, it appears as though it's not likely.

ooc

 

[alexc]

I'm with you odie, I would prefer the horseshoe, the result are often a tad more interesting.

 

[hockenbery]

My primary concern is how I might center the piece to show off the grain. especially a contrasting sap ring. The other consideration is how green wood moves as it dries. the growth rings tend to flatten out a bit.

Most commonly for larger bowls I make the opening facing the center of the tree (rainbows) it is the only way to get a 16" bowl from an 18" diameter log.

If I find a log with a rather flat face I like to make the opening on the bark edge.
In my opinion
Turning a green bowl to finished thickness with rim at the bark edge results in a much more appealing form. when dry the bowl will be a bit oval and the rim will be a bit wavy. rims of bowls turned with opening facing the center of the tree have the peaks at the end grain this does not look good to me in a dry bowl but it actually helps in remounting a bowl if it is to returned when dry.

For hollow forms I like having the sap ring at the top.
John Jordan does some great pieces using the sap ring around the opening.

happy tunrning
Al

 

[MichaelMouse]

I'm with you odie, I would prefer the horseshoe, the result are often a tad more interesting.

Well, a "horseshoe" (or as the flat people call it, a "smile") shows only on the endgrain of a heart up bowl. We'll go along with OD and assume that we can't have a shoe with the opening down. Tips up are certainly less important than a number of characteristics that go along with, like the greater possible size with any log diameter, heartwood color being on the rim and the drop of the side grain as the piece dries.

The "rainbow" (or "frown") will appear with the heart down. It is but one characteristic, and of less importance than the more limited diameter with a given depth possible from equal size logs, the heartwood coloring appearing at the bottom, and the drying stress boosting the side grain as the piece dries.

Width of display of the annual rings will depend in either orientation on the slope of the sides, though equal slopes will produce tighter on the heart down. Centering or off-center location of the final circle is a choice, as mentioned above, and does require a bit of planning because it changes the symmetry of warp that goes along with the symmetry of pattern.

So I guess the real question is whether you like all the other characteristics in the set. Not that it matters, because they come with the territory.

 

[john lucas]

here is my Born again piece larger. I still can't find the original file. I still have the piece so I will have to photograph it again.

 

[Robert Manning]

Horseshoes

We'll go along with OD and assume that we can't have a shoe with the opening down.

Michael, it's not a good idea to have a horseshoe with the opening down. Odie is correct on the orientation of horseshoes. This is why two fasteners are required to hang one. If you place a horseshoe upside down, all the luck will run out.

 

[Odie]

Michael, it's not a good idea to have a horseshoe with the opening down. Odie is correct on the orientation of horseshoes. This is why two fasteners are required to hang one. If you place a horseshoe upside down, all the luck will run out.

Yep......that's the way I've always understood it. It's strictly superstition or legend. The purpose of hanging the horseshoe in the first place, is to bring luck.....hang it wrong, and your luck will run out! I heard it from my father when I was just a little tyke.....so, it must be true! 😀 From my earliest recollections, we always had a horseshoe hanging in our garage.

So......the tradition continues! This is the horseshoe now hanging in my shop. The size of this horseshoe isn't apparent, but it's HUGE! I personally found this horseshoe in the Rocky Mountains of Montana.....it's a relic of horse logging days. Probably fits a Clydesdale, or Morgan logging horse in the days of old! :cool2:

ooc

 

[Robert Manning]

Horseshoe lore

Yep......that's the way I've always understood it. It's strictly superstition or legend. The purpose of hanging the horseshoe in the first place, is to bring luck.....hang it wrong, and your luck will run out! I heard it from my father when I was just a little tyke.....so, it must be true! 😀 From my earliest recollections, we always had a horseshoe hanging in our garage.

So......the tradition continues! This is the horseshoe now hanging in my shop. The size of this horseshoe isn't apparent, but it's HUGE! I personally found this horseshoe in the Rocky Mountains of Montana.....it's a relic of horse logging days. Probably fits a Clydesdale, or Morgan logging horse in the days of old! :cool2:

ooc

Yep, Odie, I learned the horseshoe trick from an old cowboy when I was just a sprout. Chuck Walden was his name and he was a friend of my family. He passed away many years ago, I'm sorry to say. He moved out to California from Texas a long time ago, and brought some horses from King Ranch stock. He set up a little horse ranch in the San Fernando Valley and I learned to ride horses there when I was a kid. He was an intelligent and colorful man and I really miss him. He had about forty horses and took good care of them. Not all the horses were shoed since the shoes had to be replaced every six weeks.

Yeah, Odie, it's a good idea to have a few hoseshoes around, especially near where you apply finish. When I build my kayaks, I place the bones of certain sea creatures in them while they are under construction. Hey, it can't hurt. If I was having finishing problems, I would definitely check the horseshoes.

Take care,

Robert