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Do you have "trade secrets"?

Do you have "trade secrets" ?

  • YES

    Votes: 10 14.9%

  • NO

    Votes: 57 85.1%
  • Total voters
    67
Odie

Odie

Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
TOTW Team
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
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Misssoula, MT
For those of you who know me as a sometimes poster to this forum, you'll know that I've shared quite a few of my methods on here......but, not everything! I'm a little unorthodox about some things regarding woodturning, but very much traditional on most things.

A few of you may remember when I first found this forum a couple years ago......at that moment in time, I had been turning since the early 1980's, and had never talked to, or been exposed to other turners.....AT ALL! At that time, the only exposure to other turners had been reading some very old, and a few newer books on the subject......along with a half dozen VHS videos after I'd been turning for about 10yrs, or so.

Since finding this forum, I've discovered just how far "out of the loop" I'd been for so long! 😱

Because much of my turning was learned completely on my own, and with little, or no input from others at all......I've come to do things in a very different way than the "established" methods.

Because of all the excellent advice I've read on this forum, some of my old ways of doing things have been changed completely, modified, or in a few cases remain unchanged. I feel very reluctant to tell you about everything I've discovered on my own, because some of these things, I feel, make me unique in some way. I like that! :cool2:

Most of my bowls are very traditional looking, but how I got there is what's different about my work.

I was wondering if anyone else has a few "trade secrets" that they really don't want to share with the rest of the world......?

If so, you don't have to tell us what they are........just to post in the poll is all I'm interested in.

Thanks

otis of cologne


PS: I realize this might be a little controversial to a few of you......that's not my intent. I'm just satisfying a curiosity......that's all!

OOC
 
I have really nothing to hide or not share. You may agree or not agree with some of my methods but I'll share them. Probably the only reason I wouldn't would be if it was something that I think might be dangerous for beginners. I would probably share even those with someone in my personal shop who I know well enough to trust that they would only try this knowing the risks.
I remember the old days when no one would share anything, especially their "secret" finishing formula's. I'm glad those days are gone. Everyone grows when we share. It's kind of like the Pass it Forward movement. I do something for you and your only responsibility is to do something nice for someone else.
 
I voted "no," but would have liked to see a "not that I know of" option. I do unusual things too, but I don't think I hide any of it... Well, not that I know of.
I'm pretty sure I've tried my best to answer any questions asked, without reservation.
 
john lucas said:
I have really nothing to hide or not share. You may agree or not agree with some of my methods but I'll share them. Probably the only reason I wouldn't would be if it was something that I think might be dangerous for beginners. I would probably share even those with someone in my personal shop who I know well enough to trust that they would only try this knowing the risks.
I remember the old days when no one would share anything, especially their "secret" finishing formula's. I'm glad those days are gone. Everyone grows when we share. It's kind of like the Pass it Forward movement. I do something for you and your only responsibility is to do something nice for someone else.
Click to expand...





Hi John........

Yes, from the beginning, I knew there are many turners who hold nothing back. For those, such as you, I'm truly grateful.

I also suspect there are those who say they hold nothing back, but it's a secret that they are holding a secret! Ha!

How many here seriously feel the great woodturners of present day, as well as in the past haven't kept a few "tricks of the trade" to themselves? You can speculate on this till the cows come home, but it's my personal feeling that darn near all of them do/did, to some degree.......and, this is to take into account that quite a few of them won't admit to it because they want to "get along" or to hold their admirers in a state of wonder.

At one time, I was a serious art student......took many adult school and university classes for oil painting.....even took private instruction for a few years! In that world, I've learned there are plenty of great artists that are not willing to share everything they know......and it's pretty much expected. In our little niche of the art world, there seems to be pretty much the same attitude, as I see it. However, in the woodturning world, there seems to be some indignant reservation between the many lathe artists that don't really like the idea that there are those who "hold back".

Because I feel there are things I wish to keep to myself, I hope that doesn't make me a villain. Heck, I guess I have no way of preventing that......as I'm sure I am now the bad guy to a few of you.

If I ran across this thread, and it wasn't me who initiated it.......I'd probably just hit the "yes vote"..... and leave it at that. I admire those who did, and didn't tell us who they were......after all, they had the chance to be honest about it, without anyone knowing who they were......and, I can certainly understand why they might not want us to know.

Additional comment: There's nothing about my bowls that many other turners can't duplicate. Those things I don't wish to share, are methods to an end......not the final piece.

otis of cologne
 
Do you have "trade secrets" ?

I was pretty much the same, starting off in the early 80s and doing my own thing and also found out I had missed out on so much by not joining a club or group.
In 1995 I joined a club and that is when I found out I had kept my self in the dark in regards to woodturning.
I feel it is only fair that we share knowledge if we willingly take it from others, so I have no secrets.
Robbie
 
I don't suppose that you are referring to stuff like the typical woodworking magazine cover that proclaims 101 Router Secrets Revealed, only to discover that all of these secrets are things that everybody already knows.
 
john lucas said:
I have really nothing to hide or not share. You may agree or not agree with some of my methods but I'll share them. Probably the only reason I wouldn't would be if it was something that I think might be dangerous for beginners. I would probably share even those with someone in my personal shop who I know well enough to trust that they would only try this knowing the risks.
Click to expand...

Everything is dangerous for beginners. Unless it's something stupid, which I would still flag as such eg.standing in front of a spinning blank and trying to hack it round ("but it says it's a bowl gouge") rather than beside it and letting the tool carry the severance message into the zone.

About time we forgot about "the children" and helped them grow into the real world, where there is failure as well as success, harm as well as protection, and we learn from both.
 
boehme said:
I don't suppose that you are referring to stuff like the typical woodworking magazine cover that proclaims 101 Router Secrets Revealed, only to discover that all of these secrets are things that everybody already knows.
Click to expand...

Nope......talking about techniques and methods for which I've had to build special tools and jigs in order to accomplish a particular goal.

I suppose someone somewhere has already done these things I speak of, and I also suppose it would be presumptuous to assume my inventions and ideas are completely unique.......but to my knowledge, nobody has.

Because there are "yes votes" it just goes to serve the purpose of this thread. It validates my theory that there are some of us who have strived to be different in a sea of "group think"......and we/I feel those things are just one part of a natural desire to set ourselves apart from everyone else.....a natural order of humanity that is, to my thinking, an understandable endeavour.

otis of cologne
 
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I voted no on this because like someone already said, if I do have secrets even I have forgotten them.


Yes...they are mine, all mine Ha ha ha ha!
 
trade secrets?

I voted no. I will show you everything I know,which is not to much. If you can do it better than me then you will have to show me your way.
 
I share all that I can.

I have found that in the woodturning world allmost all turners are willing to share knowledge and techniques.

Even the professonals that I have seen. Though it was not in there scope of demonstrating.

I know of other types of artist that will not share all they know, even with the persons that they teach. For fear of upcoming competion.

Jerry
 
odie, I also voted no, because what I truly know was shared with me by others, and what little knowledge I've gained on my own I share as a form of pay-back/forward. Woodturners are far more prone to share than most of the participants of the other hobbies I've been interested in.
 
Art is funny sometimes.

Some visual artists act like they are part of some guild that must keep all methods secret.

I'm also a musician, photographer, and make lots of other things out of wood, everything from guitars and basses to furniture. I do not consider any of these endeavors separate from the rest. All are aspects of my same drive to create, I consider all of it art. I can not even imagine where I would be at in terms of musical development if other musicians did not share knowledge. Just because someone told you/showed you how to do it does not mean you will be able to reproduce it. All art takes practice. Unfortunately for me I did not know any other wood turners when I started, so I am self taught. This is my loss. I would be a much better turner to day if I had the same amount of help from fellow artists as I did in music, flatwork woodworking, and photography.

No secrets here, I may not spread what I know around as much as others by posting how to's on my website but I have never not told anybody how I did it if asked. Anything else would be disrespectful to all those who have shared their knowledge with me.

Culture and society are built on handing knowledge down. Keeping knowledge secret that can help another human grow is counter productive to my concept of an advanced society. We all build off of what those before us have done.

Secrets are for the military and the insecure. Or are secrets for an insecure military? Wait a second maybe it is...militaries are for the insecure with secrets.

either way...you get the drift.
 
Just checking back to see how this poll is going.........

It's interesting to note that, at this point, there are just under 20% who have voted yes to the poll........

I had no idea, but I suspected the results would be similar to what we are seeing here......and, it ain't over yet!

Now.......the big questions are: Of those of you who voted no, can you accept the fact that some woodturners see their own ideas/inventions/self methods, as a conceptual form of individual expression? Do you see this as being right, wrong, or neither? Can you accept that some lathe artists DO find a sense of individual expression in their shop techniques?......and as a matter of protecting that sense of individuality, there are some things they feel would be an overall loss of self identity if they reveal them?

Those of you who have been on this forum for some time, know there are many things I am perfectly happy to share with the woodturning fraternity. Am I really the bad guy?.......or, can I be viewed as just one of many who are acting within an artistic boundary that is an accepted practice within the realm of artisans in general?

As a side note: Of those times I do offer my thoughts on woodturning subjects, in most of these cases, there are those who don't agree with me anyway........so, chances are, even if I did reveal my "tricks of the trade", they would be met with disagreement!......this, I can accept.....but still, there are certain aspects of what I do that I will always consider an individual expression.

otis of cologne
 
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I turned for a number of years and did not know of another woodturner. Then I found the AAW Symposiums. Do you know how much info the instructors at the demos have "given away". Wow!!!!!!!
Thanks to all who have shared.
Hugh😀😀😀
 
Hugh said:
I turned for a number of years and did not know of another woodturner. Then I found the AAW Symposiums. Do you know how much info the instructors at the demos have "given away". Wow!!!!!!!
Thanks to all who have shared.
Hugh😀😀😀
Click to expand...

Very true, Hugh......

There is a lot of knowledge that is shared.....we ALL have benefited from that......including me!

But........have you stopped to think that it's possible, or even probable, that some of those very same turners, from whom you've learned so much, haven't shown you......everything?

Pure speculation......I know!

edit comment: I, too, turned for nearly 25yrs before I first communicated with other turners. I see that as a time I wouldn't trade for the world! Because of that time, I've taken many lesser traveled paths......some ended up as dead-end streets....and at other times, I blazed some new trails! Even some of my failures have been great learning experiences that would never have happened, if I had the benefit of input from other turners. There's more than one way to look at these things.....and benefit from them! As things turned out, there are many aspects of woodturning that I naturally gravitated to......directions that seem to be accepted practices, but I didn't know that at the time!

otis of cologne
 
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I have spent the greater part of my life learning from others and teaching others. I don't know how to break the cycle; or if I'd even want to. Come on over with your motorcycle and I'll teach you how to control it on the streets and highways without killing yourself. I can teach you how electricity works, something about law and how to fix or repair just about anything. But I'm still a novice at wood turning and I am sooo glad that the others I have met personally and through the forums gladly and openly share what they know to help me improve my skills. I'm not experienced enough in wood turning to have any "secrets" - but it doesn't matter because I don't know how to keep a secret if it will help someone else improve. You might be amazed about the number of "secrets" I've shared over my life time only to learn that I was doing it all wrong and the person to whom I was sharing the "secret" shared his/her secret with me to put me on the right track.
I guess you already understand that I'm one of your "no" voters.
 
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odie said:
J
Now.......the big questions are: Of those of you who voted no, can you accept the fact that some woodturners see their own ideas/inventions/self methods, as a conceptual form of individual expression? Do you see this as being right, wrong, or neither? Can you accept that some lathe artists DO find a sense of individual expression in their shop techniques?......and as a matter of protecting that sense of individuality, there are some things they feel would be an overall loss of self identity if they reveal them?
Click to expand...

Are you speaking of "intellectual property" and all the wars which have been fought both here and in the courts over it? I think it's loss of lucre rather than individuality involved there. Or to be more correct, an attempt to continuously re-sell an item.

Only secrets I have been accused of sheltering were secret because I didn't know they didn't know. Or worse, thought that the way I did things was so obvious as to not require an explanation.
 
Had one secret (from myself too), cause I forgot how I did it and could not answer my friend's question. Worked on that secret as soon as he left, and was able to email the answer to him within a few minutes.
 
Dick Hines said:
I voted no. I will show you everything I know,which is not to much. If you can do it better than me then you will have to show me your way.
Click to expand...

Howdy Dick......

Well.....no......I don't have to show anyone anything, but I certainly do feel free to discuss, or explain just about everything I do/know. I do have a certain sense of community in the woodturning world, but that sense is not complete, or in totality. Where the one ends and the "individuality" concept begins is mine to determine, and completely up to my artistic integrity. This is the crux of the matter......and it looks to me like there are some that fail to, or maybe the proper term is "won't" grasp, or credit the concept as valid.

otis of cologne




MichaelMouse said:
Are you speaking of "intellectual property" and all the wars which have been fought both here and in the courts over it? I think it's loss of lucre rather than individuality involved there. Or to be more correct, an attempt to continuously re-sell an item.

Only secrets I have been accused of sheltering were secret because I didn't know they didn't know. Or worse, thought that the way I did things was so obvious as to not require an explanation.
Click to expand...

Hello MM......

I'm not really certain if "intellectual property" is in the equation, or not. If it involves the formula for Coke, or the chemical ingredients for a special lacquer finish, for example, then that wouldn't apply to me........but, who knows? I see there are now nine yes votes in the poll. I certainly couldn't speak for the other eight voters. This would be between them, their conscience, sense of individuality, artistic license, or whatever else they use to decide why they voted that way. Personally, I could care less what criteria they used to make their decisions to keep certain aspects of their woodturning to themselves......but, I believe they are perfectly within their ethical rights to make that decision.

I......like you, am wondering just what these other eight "no" voters might not be willing to share with the rest of us! I do understand it's just the way it is......I'm not going to lose any sleep wondering about it!......and I will be appreciative when others give me a "heads up" on things where I could use a "re-think", or improvement on. Just as you are, I am willing to share my experiences, thoughts, observations, what-not, with others........but, as I said before......there are certain limitations.......not a lot of limitations.....but, there are a few.

otis of cologne
 
I had a thought earlier today...😀😀😀...If you think people are keeping secrets, are we just thinking that and really it is just talent that people have and we don't?
Hugh
 
Trade Secrets

I voted 'No', and here's why:

I've been turning for about 7 years now, and before that, had no background in how tools cut, how to sharpen them or anything else about wood. When I was a kid, girls were not encouraged, nor permitted to do anything like that, and my parents lived by that rule. So, I was starting completely as a noobie.

I would not be a woodturner today, were it not for the generosity of so many woodturners from the clubs that I joined a few months after receiving my first lathe. I took one bowlturning class; the rest of my knowledge was gained from woodturning buddies.

I now share my skills, without exception, and do so willingly. I owe that to all those woodturners who taught me -- I'm paying it forward. I have a background in teaching -- one of my part-time jobs, that helps bring in a regular income. Anyone who is teacher knows what I'm talking about when I say that teachers don't do it for the money. I enjoy sharing what I know.

My personal opinion about sharing the knowledge is this: Much of woodturning is a skill that is developed over a period of time. I've yet to see someone pick up a woodturning tool (with no prior turning knowledge), and instinctively know how to use it, and 'turn out' an exceptional creation. That means, to me, at least, I can tell you and show you how it's done, but you'll need to practice - a lot, to get it right. If you're willing to spend that time, then you're entitled to the whole kit'n' kaboodle. And like someone previously commented, if they can do it better, then I want them to share their technique.
 
Most of the expert woodturners will tell and show you everything they know. If there are any "trade secrets", they are their hand-eye coordination, their ability to see things in the wood and feel a fair curve, and their years of experience. Those cannot be given away. You will have to learn them on your own.
 
I've been turning just a little over 2 years, and I have no "trade" secrets. But, I do find that I go to great length to keep secret all the mistakes I've made over the last couple of years!

My thanks to all who share their knowledge of woodturning. I hope you get as much satisfaction from doing so as I got from the few years I taught school.
 
I was planning to vote "no" and then changed my mind ... and, instead, decided to not vote. As the thread has progressed, I get the feeling that OP is presenting a perspective biased towards influencing the direction that the poll results go. As Seinfeld would say, "not that there's anything wrong with that". 😱
 
RussFairfield said:
Most of the expert woodturners will tell and show you everything they know.
Click to expand...

Just checking back in......

I think this is very true, and is what I believe to be the case, as well.

The key word here is......"Most".

On this thread, we were given a little insight into the fact that there are definitely those who aren't willing to share everything. I suspect most of these yes voters have developed a specialized way to accomplish a task that is different, or outside of what is considered SOP (Standard Operating Procedure).

Certainly, there are those who will share everything. However, for the great majority of them, none of what they know is outside of what has already been given to us by others.....through, books, videos, forums, speaking direct, demonstrations, etc.......in other words, "common knowledge".......knowledge that anyone can find if they look for it.

I suspect there are a few turners who have acquired some "uncommon knowledge". 😉

otis of cologne
 
boehme said:
I was planning to vote "no" and then changed my mind ... and, instead, decided to not vote. As the thread has progressed, I get the feeling that OP is presenting a perspective biased towards influencing the direction that the poll results go. As Seinfeld would say, "not that there's anything wrong with that". 😱
Click to expand...

Howdy boehme.....

To the contrary.......not trying to influence anyone's vote at all. It's a pretty easy question....yes, or no. Those who vote will have known prior to seeing this thread what their answer will be. If they are, they are, and if they ain't, they ain't!

However, I do feel there is some reluctance to admit to a "trade secret" within the woodturning community, as a whole. This is understandable, and from the beginning, I stated that I knew the subject is likely to have some controversy to it.....and that I would be in the minority on the issue.

I hope your post doesn't become the "turning point", on civility, here.......but, I can assure you, I am only interested in hearing opinions, and discussion. How anyone votes, is strictly their business.

otis of cologne
 
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There is no incivility in my post -- I was very clear that what I said was just my own feelings.

If anyone in the woodturning community has what they think is a "trade secret", they are most likely deluding themselves if they really think they are the only one who has ever figured out a particular technique.

On the other hand, my trade secrets are all secret only because they involve my lack of skill and finesse and I would not want to taint the woodworking community with negative skills. As an example, without going into details, I have discovered that 60-grit sandpaper IS a turning tool. I better not hear about anybody copying my idea!
 
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