Danish Oil Cure Time

[Tom De Winter]

I turned a combo salt shaker / pepper mill from Red Elm. I sanded to 800 then used shavings to burnish the wood giving it a nice luster.
I then applied a flood coat of Natural Danish Oil, waited 15 minutes and applied another. After 15 more minutes I wiped off all I could. Perhaps it was the burnishing but neither coat seemed to penetrate much.

It's been 4 days now and it still feels oily to the touch. And I continue to wipe it down.

Shouldn't this have cured by now?
I'm wondering if it ever will?
Where should I go from here?

Thanks in advance for all your thoughts.

 

[Doug Freeman]

What temp have you had the piece sitting in? If in a cold shop, not surprising. Take it into the house. I have a large cardboard box with a 150w incandescent bulb in the shop I use to keep work warm after finish application when its cool/cold. It will cause finish to bleed out as it warms.

I dont use danish oil but use poly thinned 1:1 with the same application method. The poly dries faster and is cheaper, looks about the same when cured (the poly tends to “fill” a bit more. Depending on the brand the DO probably has urethane in it.

 

[Tom De Winter]

I'm often in trouble for my shop being warmer than our house.

It's been at 70° or higher, with several hours setting on top of the stove while the oven is on. Guessing 100° or so.

 

[Ron Solfest]

I use Watco DO similar to how you applied a lot. Sometimes it will bleed for a day or so but at 70deg+ it should have cured by now. Was the DO old? Only twice I’ve had your experience: once with Walnut oil; and once with DO that was several years old.

 

[Tom Lucas]

I just recently started using Tried and True Danish Oil. Before purchasing I read several complaints about drying times. The maker says you must only apply a very light coat or it take a long time to dry. When using, I tried to heed their advice. But it still took about 4 or 5 days to dry with day time temperatures in the mid to upper 70's. The trick is to use as little as possible, it seems. I do love how it brings out the beauty in the wood. I applied just one coat of oil and then top coated with 3 coats minwax tung oil finish, which is a varnish of sorts. I love that minwax product, easy to apply, will build to a sheen if you want that, and can be reapplied at any time. It looks more natural than poly's.

 

[Doug Freeman]

If its been that warm it should be dry to the touch. I have some DO thats over 10 years old, still cures when I use a bit of it, but that could be it. Wipe it down with naptha. May need to scrub it a bit with a rag and naptha.

 

[Doug Freeman]

I applied just one coat of oil and then top coated with 3 coats minwax tung oil finish, which is a varnish of sorts. I love that minwax product, easy to apply, will build to a sheen if you want that, and can be reapplied at any time. It looks more natural than poly's.

Try some regular mw poly thinned 1:1 with ms, and apply the same way as the mw “tung oil finish”. I dont think you will notice a difference, other than a lot cheaper price.

 

[Tom Lucas]

Try some regular mw poly thinned 1:1 with ms, and apply the same way as the mw “tung oil finish”. I dont think you will notice a difference, other than a lot cheaper price.

I use that mix from time to time, Doug. But my poly finishes are always more shiny and, therefore, look more "on-top" and plastic-like that what I get with the tung oil finish. Most turnings I want to shine I use the poly. But if I'm looking for more of an oil look but just a bit shinier than oil alone, and food-safe, I go with the tung oil finish. On flatwork that doesn't need a lot of protection, the MW tung oil finish is my preferred look. But now I'm putting it over the T&T DO for an even nicer appearance.

 

[Brian Gustin]

I use that mix from time to time, Doug. But my poly finishes are always more shiny and, therefore, look more "on-top" and plastic-like that what I get with the tung oil finish. Most turnings I want to shine I use the poly. But if I'm looking for more of an oil look but just a bit shinier than oil alone, and food-safe, I go with the tung oil finish. On flatwork that doesn't need a lot of protection, the MW tung oil finish is my preferred look. But now I'm putting it over the T&T DO for an even nicer appearance.

Hmm T&T Meaning Tried & True? You do know you need only a very thin coat initially? (basically just enough to make a glossy smear, but not so much that there is any sitting on top) then leave it sit about 15 minutes, then wipe (hand buff) away any excess. Should cure in 24 hours or less (but it can still weep back out under higher heat or sitting in the sunshine on a warm day, until it gets a full cure (typically about 30 days) I regularly use T&T original (just linseed & beeswax) and T&T Varnish (Linseed oil & Pine Resin) and have found that "less is more" is the way to go with Tried & True. (I can dip a finger in the varnish oil and it is enough to fully coat the inside of a 6" bowl) - The T&T Danish Oil is supposed to be the fastest to cure (and quickest to buff & recoat) of the 3 finishes, but I haven't used that myself yet.

By the way Miniwax (and Formby's) Tung Oil varnish contains very little actual Tung Oil, and it is not particularly food-safe (Though technically, after fully cured, most any finish is food safe) I have found my preference to be the Tried & True products as they are all natural, and do not require respirators, gloves, or any special handling (other than rag disposal - it is linseed oil, after all!) and the "Varnish" (linseed & pine resin) does cure to an "almost glossy" shine, and it doesn't show scratches and scuffs like your typical polyurethane top coats after handling/jostling, etc.

 

[Tom Lucas]

Hmm T&T Meaning Tried & True? You do know you need only a very thin coat initially? (basically just enough to make a glossy smear, but not so much that there is any sitting on top) then leave it sit about 15 minutes, then wipe (hand buff) away any excess. Should cure in 24 hours or less (but it can still weep back out under higher heat or sitting in the sunshine on a warm day, until it gets a full cure (typically about 30 days) I regularly use T&T original (just linseed & beeswax) and T&T Varnish (Linseed oil & Pine Resin) and have found that "less is more" is the way to go with Tried & True. (I can dip a finger in the varnish oil and it is enough to fully coat the inside of a 6" bowl) - The T&T Danish Oil is supposed to be the fastest to cure (and quickest to buff & recoat) of the 3 finishes, but I haven't used that myself yet.

By the way Miniwax (and Formby's) Tung Oil varnish contains very little actual Tung Oil, and it is not particularly food-safe (Though technically, after fully cured, most any finish is food safe) I have found my preference to be the Tried & True products as they are all natural, and do not require respirators, gloves, or any special handling (other than rag disposal - it is linseed oil, after all!) and the "Varnish" (linseed & pine resin) does cure to an "almost glossy" shine, and it doesn't show scratches and scuffs like your typical polyurethane top coats after handling/jostling, etc.

I know all this, and stated as much in a earlier post. Minwax claims its tung oil finish is food safe. I suppose it comes down to trust on that one, as they don't reveal what is in it. I mainly prefer it because it provides better protection than oils and waxes alone, yet can be reapplied at anytime over itself. If you want it to shine like poly, it takes many more coats. So when shine is paramount and food safe is not in play, wipe-on poly is my choice.

The T&T DO does make for a great undercoat to really pop the natural beauty of the wood. You just have to apply sparingly, rub it out good, and leave it for a few days to cure before applying the final finish of choice (if any). I'm also starting to play with the T&T original. My first results are only OK, kind of a pedestrian finish that says "I'm a working piece". But I'll keep trying it out on some more pieces when I want that truly food safe finish and care less about shine. I do love to touch that finish though; feels so nice in the hand.

 

[Brian Gustin]

I know all this, and stated as much in a earlier post.

Ah I see that now.. Mixed you up with the O.P. in my head at the time, and missed your earlier post. I have found that for most of my smaller items, buyers/clients/others that request something have by and large preferred the semi-gloss shine I can get out of the Tried & True Varnish, over the glossy shine I was getting with Polyurethane (and honestly, I could not see any good reason to buy more Formby's , which I believe was actually bought by Miniwax and re-branded/re-formulated, once I figured out how to make my own wipe-on poly for far less money and equal or better results) so for the last several months, about the only finish I have been applying has been one or the other Tried & True (Save a couple projects where I chose water base poly, and some small/miniature items which I finished in either spray shellac or Deft lacquer) I get the impression the warmth of the wood being so close to hand while still being able to get a decent shine (almost a mirror gloss when buffed at 14,000 grit after sanding to 600 grit) from the T&T Varnish was a big thing with the folks that have commented about by finishes ("How did you manage this beautiful finish without it looking like plastic??!!" and similar) Granted, if I was trying to be a production shop (turnings and flatwork both) I'd probably want the quicker results to be had with a polyurethane finish (a day or two for several coats of water base poly, few days for oil base) as opposed to the longer working time to get a great natural oil finish (typically a week or two for most finishes, 3 weeks for that mirror polish I managed on that one project) .. In any case, as I was thinking you were the original poster (serves me right not re-reading the full thread to make sure) mea culpa..

As to the original poster, if it was genuine 100% pure natural "Danish Oil" (maybe so-called to differentiate it from "Boiled Linseed Oil" which commonly contains harsh chemical & metallic driers, etc), if it wasn't Polymerized (Heated or boiled to temperature for a specific amount of time) It can take as much as 30-60 days to dry, and months or years to fully cure.. I still have a quart jar of 60 year-old Linseed oil from my grandfather's farm sitting on a shelf in the shop.. (Had 2 quarts, one jar cracked while moving them around, so I transferred it to a new container, some of the leftover I used to end grain seal a couple of small logs..) it took 45 days before it was dry to the touch, but it resulted in a relatively hard finish - I was surprised, I always figured it was just too old to be useful! That led me to do a lot more deep reading beyond the first few pages of google results (most of which try to sell "the best" linseed oil, or seemed to be) to learn more about the stuff... and eventually stumbled across Tried & True

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

I have been using Watco Danish oil for at least 50 years on flat work and on turnings. The process that I have used successfully is to first sand to 320 at the most and do not burnish the surface. The next step is to slop on a wet coat of oil, let it set for about a half hour rewetting areas that dull then wet sand with 320 wet or dry paper and wipe dry Note: use a clean paper towel for the final wipe down and it should only have minor traces of oil on it. The piece should be left to dry for about 2 days checking regularly for bleed out especially if applying to open grain woods such as oak. The first application will likely raise the grain so sand with 320 before applying the second coat then continue as per the first application. The third application sholuld not soak in on the end grain areas, but if it does go for a fourth application. The finish can be topped off with a clear wax or a wax colored close to the wood color.
The finish will not be high luster as can be seen on this cherry crotch bowl made in 2019.

 

[Doug Freeman]

If the same DO process is followed, ie keep wet for 10-30 min and wipe off, with thinned poly it appears about the same as 2-3 coats of DO.

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

If the same DO process is followed, ie keep wet for 10-30 min and wipe off, with thinned poly it appears about the same as 2-3 coats of DO.

The best part of a Danish Oil finish is that it does not Form a surface film and therefore will never chip or peal and in the years to come it can be renewed simply by applying more oil. If you are going to use wipe on poly for a final finish that is forming a surface film, which can crack chip and peal so why bother to start with danish oil.

 

[Tom De Winter]

I used Watco DO that's about a year old (I think). The piece is finally losing some of the oily feel and no longer weeping (at room temp).

Taking everyones comments in mind I think it was a combo of
1. the burnished wood not absorbing as readily as I'm used to
2. the 1st application was heavier than needed (wasn't any dry spots)
3. the 2nd coat wasn't needed and couldn't be wiped off adequately.

Thanks everyone. Looks like it's going to be good after another week.

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

I used Watco DO that's about a year old (I think). The piece is finally losing some of the oily feel and no longer weeping (at room temp).

Taking everyones comments in mind I think it was a combo of
1. the burnished wood not absorbing as readily as I'm used to
2. the 1st application was heavier than needed (wasn't any dry spots)
3. the 2nd coat wasn't needed and couldn't be wiped off adequately.

Thanks everyone. Looks like it's going to be good after another week.

Note: use a clean paper towel for the final wipe down and it should only have minor traces of oil on it.

The points 2 & 3 give me the impression that you didn't wipe it down properly, because any oil left on the surface will be sticky and never completely dry.
The note quoted above applies to each coat and the sanding before and after the subsequent coats.

 

[Doug Freeman]

The best part of a Danish Oil finish is that it does not Form a surface film and therefore will never chip or peal and in the years to come it can be renewed simply by applying more oil. If you are going to use wipe on poly for a final finish that is forming a surface film, which can crack chip and peal so why bother to start with danish oil.

Clearly you missed the part about applying like DO, wiping the surface off. It does not then form a film finish, dries faster and harder than DO, can be repaired like DO if needed.

 

[Odie]

ABOUT DANISH OIL​

WATCO® Danish Oil is a unique blend of penetrating oil & varnish hardens in the wood, not on the wood. WATCO® Danish Oil penetrates deep into wood pores to protect from within and to enhance the natural look and feel of the wood. It creates the rich, warm glow of a traditional hand-rubbed finish. Many projects can be completed in less than an hour - simply brush or wipe on and wipe off. WATCO® Danish Oil is the choice of fine woodworkers and novices alike. Please read product labels for additional directions and precautions before using

• Indoor use only (not recommended for Floors)
• Stain, Seals, & Protects in one easy step
• Will not crack, chip, or peel

FOR BEST RESULTS​

Apply with a brush, or wipe on with a cloth.

AVAILABLE SIZES​

• Pint
• Quart
• 1 Gallon

=============================================

https://www.rustoleum.com/en/product-catalog/consumer-brands/watco/danish-oil

=============================================

I have been using Danish Oil for 40 years on bowls. It is easily applied, simple to use, and looks good......perfect for us bowl turners!

You will see in the technical information that there is no mention of needing any follow-up coats. I've found that only a single application is good. What I do is keep applying the first coat with a cloth until there are no dry spots after about 5-10 minutes. The dry spots indicate that the DO is still penetrating into the interior of the wood. (You want that, because the DO hardens in the interior and acts as a sealer.) When you are no longer getting dry spots, the excess is wiped away with a paper towel. This wiping of the excess may need to be done several times. Overnight, there still may be a minimal amount of DO that seeps out and dries on the surface. I've found that any small spots of DO that does dry on the surface, is easily removed during the Tripoli application of the Beale buffing process.

As far as "curing" goes, that will occur within several days, but my particular process is to have twelve bowls in the queue for finishing, so my bowls have a minimum of two weeks after the application of the DO, until they undergo the buffing process. I believe someone here in this thread mentioned that low temperatures will lengthen the curing process, and I believe that is true. (During the winter months, my shop is only kept at about 40°F when I am not in the shop, and around 70°F while I'm working in the shop. Those who don't have the same conditions as I do, will need to adjust their curing times accordingly.)

-----odie-----

 

[Tom De Winter]

Though I did wipe the first application with a paper towel I probably didn't do a great job figuring I was going to flood it again anyway.
The second coat was dried in the spinning lathe until the paper towels come away clean.

 

[Ron Solfest]

Tom, if Watco do you know what version? I’ve used Watco for years and a couple years ago I ordered off the internet and got “Low VOC” by mistake. It was terrible. I called Watco and they explained they had ‘regular’ and ‘low VOC’ and send me a free replacement! I’m not home and so don’t have the numbers here, but have them written in my shop so I don’t make the same mistake again.

 

[Ron Solfest]

Duplicate

 

[Tom De Winter]

I don't find "Low VOC" anyplace. A sticker does say MAX VOC 450 G/L.
No idea what low vs std is.

Seems like I read on here about that before and checked my can at the time.

 

[Bill Boehme]

By the way Miniwax (and Formby's) Tung Oil varnish contains very little actual Tung Oil,

Actually, they contain no tung oil.

 

[Tom Lucas]

Actually, they contain no tung oil.

How do you know this? There are no ingredients on the label.

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

You will see in the technical information that there is no mention of needing any follow-up coats.

That is the current information from Rust oleum owned Watco, however, although I can not document it, the original specs on the cans did detail a multi coat process as I explained previously.

 

[Brian Gustin]

How do you know this? There are no ingredients on the label.

Material Safety Data Sheets - available from any manufacturer (by law they must provide them, as well as their distributors, vendors, dealers to anyone requesting them) these will list common ingredients and percentages (though some may be called some obscure chemical name, and some select items may be listed as "Trade Secret") last I looked back when I first got a can of formby's I went and looked at the MSDS at the time, and saw no mention of Tung Oil, so I assumed that since they called it "Tung Oil" they must have some small amount of it listed under some "high-falutin'" chemical name (like C3HS4N2 or whatever) I never dug too deep...

 

[Odie]

That is the current information from Rust oleum owned Watco, however, although I can not document it, the original specs on the cans did detail a multi coat process as I explained previously.

Interesting, Don.....

I don't recall ever seeing that, and I've been using Watco DO for a very long time now......I'm not saying your information isn't correct, but if it is correct, then I wonder if the formula may have changed over the years, and thereby creating a need to change the method of application.....?

Question for you, Don: As you see it, what benefit is there for applying multiple coats of DO?

As I see it, the finished surface does not become "richer", or benefits from additional coats of DO. Additionally, since the DO actually hardens to create a sealed barrier, then additional coats shouldn't be able to penetrate that barrier...or so I'd speculate.

-----odie-----

 

[Tom Lucas]

Material Safety Data Sheets - available from any manufacturer (by law they must provide them, as well as their distributors, vendors, dealers to anyone requesting them) these will list common ingredients and percentages (though some may be called some obscure chemical name, and some select items may be listed as "Trade Secret") last I looked back when I first got a can of formby's I went and looked at the MSDS at the time, and saw no mention of Tung Oil, so I assumed that since they called it "Tung Oil" they must have some small amount of it listed under some "high-falutin'" chemical name (like C3HS4N2 or whatever) I never dug too deep...

Uhhh. So does anyone KNOW that it doesn't contain Tung Oil? MSDS never tells the whole story. They only have to divulge harmful/volatile characteristics related to known safety issues, and the related "active ingredients". They do not have to list every ingredient. My point is, if you know, by making a statement, how do you know when it's not printed on the can? I just looked at MWTOF MSDS. They only list 65.2% of ingredients (mostly mineral spirits or similar solvent). There's no mention of what composes the other 34.8%. Further, do we really KNOW that Formby's and MW are identical formulas? Or are we assuming so because one owns the other? For me, w.r.t. MWTOF, it doesn't really matter what they call it. I like it; having been using it for several years; think it's a good product; will continue to use it when I want a renewable, yet durable finish, at least until someone convinces me it's harmful.

 

[Bill Boehme]

How do you know this? There are no ingredients on the label.

Many Years ago (before the Internet) the woodworking magazines had columns by finishing experts such as Michael Dresdner who wrote the "Just Finishing" column for American Woodworker; Bob Flexner who wrote for several magazines including Woodwork, Workbench, and American Woodworker; and Jeff Jewitt who wrote for Fine Woodworking. I think that all of them, at one time or another, had said that the term "tung oil finish" had become something of an industry-standard marketing myth for wipe on finishes which actually meant that the finish was an oil varnish blend where the oil was usually linseed oil because it dried faster and harder than tung oil. On page 65 of Flexner's book, "Understanding Wood Finishing", without naming names, there is a sidebar which says:

MYTH​

The term "tung oil" in the name of a finish means that the finish contains tung oil somewhere in the formula.​

​

FACT​

This is not necessarily the case. "Tung oil" has come to mean any finish that you wipe on the wood. This causes great confusion. If someone tells you that he or she used tung oil on a project, you have no idea what was really used. It could have been any of the four types of "oil".​

I will add that "Formby's Tung Oil Finish" is a trademarked name for the product and not a legal description of what the product contains. They could have just as well added the words "Pure Gold" to the trademarked name because it's just a product name and nothing more.

Any finish that is a blend of any polymerizing oil and varnish will be softer than a pure varnish finish. That might be fine where the finish doesn't have to be as durable as a pure varnish finish or flexibility is desirable such as in exterior spar varnish. I think that a better solution for woodturning where you like the "depth" that oil adds and the durability of varnish would be to first wipe on a thin coat of oil and let it cure for a couple of weeks followed by a varnish topcoat. Looking at the SDS for answers is a futile exercise because every manufacturer uses "trade secret" as an escape clause. In actuality, they really aren't keeping secrets from their competitors as much as they are keeping the consumer in the dark.

 

[Doug Freeman]

Any finish that is a blend of any polymerizing oil and varnish will be softer than a pure varnish finish. That might be fine where the finish doesn't have to be as durable as a pure varnish finish or flexibility is desirable such as in exterior spar varnish. I think that a better solution for woodturning where you like the "depth" that oil adds and the durability of varnish would be to first wipe on a thin coat of oil and let it cure for a couple of weeks followed by a varnish topcoat.

Even a “pure varnish” has a polymerizing oil in it. The amount of oil vs hardening resins, as well as the resin type, determines the cured varnish properties - hardness, flexibility, abrasion resistance, etc. “Depth” is a function of chatoyance and gloss. The standard solvent finishes - shellac, varnish, lacquer - all provide chatoyance. Water based finishes do not (that I am aware of - I haven’t tested all of thedifferent types) and can never provide the depth of solvent finishes. Regular poly varnish does provide the same chatoyance as an “oil” finish. People think of it as a surface film finish, not realizing it can be used the same as danish oil or other “oil” finishes (thin 1:1 and apply thhe same way - flood on, soak in, wipe off). It provides the same look but dries faster, and is cheaper. Many of the DO brands have urethane in them, though I dont know the %. I use poly varnish because all of the non-poly varnishes have been discontinued.

 

[Brian Gustin]

all provide chatoyance. Water based finishes do not (that I am aware of -

Yes, water based polyurethane does provide a beautiful gloss (and like oil based, comes in semi-gloss and matte - which are basically gloss with flatteners added to reduce chatoyance) I have used it often on larger size projects (such as end tables and other furniture-type flatwork with lot of surface area that is not expected to see a lot of traffic/scuffing)