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CV glue questions

underdog

underdog

Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
451
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48
Location
North Georgia
As I was sanding and sanding and sanding and sanding last night... I began to realize a couple of things.. (one of which was that I need to get some sandpaper in more grits than 220 and 320 😛 )

I'd like to know a bit more about what kind of CV glue to use for different applications.

I know pen turners and bowl turners that use it for the finish...

What kind would you use for this purpose?

I also have heard of using it for gluing up stock for turning (like Jim Mcphail).

What would you use for this purpose?

I've also heard of using it with woodshavings, or sawdust, or even instant coffee (I gotta try that sometime!), to fill holes, inclusions etc...

What would you get for this purpose?

And can I buy a decent quality of CA glue at Walmart or Lowes?

And what quantity would I buy?

Ok.. nuff questions... I'll shut up now...
 
Hi Jim,

Ya gotta have a pretty good range of sandpaper. I have 100-600 and start with whatever is warranted with the piece. Don't skip grits. Will waste lots of time and effort. Work your way up from rough to fine.

As for CA, you're gonna pay an arm and a leg if you get it anywhere but through your local turning club or online wholesaler. We sell it through out club and pay $4 for 2 oz. I'd be careful using it for finish on anything but pens, and would get some instruction on this to start. Bowls, no way. Too large to get a clean application. Past that, CA is truly versatile so be creative. Don't forget to pick up some spray accelerant and different thicknesses of glue.

Dietrich

P.S.(something important to remember: Never glue yourself to something to large to lift. Keep the solvent in easy arm's reach. Both arms. From either direction. Trust me on that.)
 
..and the rest of the story is??

dkulze said:
....

P.S.(something important to remember: Never glue yourself to something to large to lift. Keep the solvent in easy arm's reach. Both arms. From either direction. Trust me on that.)
Click to expand...

I just gota ask

Ralph
 
I've actually only solidly glued myself to the chuck a few times and, luckilly, the allen key for the set screws was handy and the lathe has a reverse switch. But it took some contortions, hence the "either hand, both ways".

The quote of "never glue yourself to something you can't lift" was pirated from an article where the writer discussed glueing himself to his lathe and having to use a dowel between hand and lathe to roll his skin loose cause the solvent was about 4 feet out of reach.

Ow.

Now glued to wood blanks, tissue paper, sawdust, the bottle, myself, the wall (very briefly), toys, ceramics, tools. Those I've done. I've developed quite the reflex for jerking my hand away as I feel the glue hit it. This usually works to prevent attachment.

Oh yeah, and my coffee cup. Several times. Not a prob unless it's hot.

Dietrich
 
Well...

I've been having a laugh at your expense..... but it's really not that funny when you're in that situation. It's only something to look back at and laugh at... I've certainly had my share of similar scrapes. I'll be sure to get, and keep the acetone handy. And certainly my cell phone...

Reason I was wanting the super glue for finishing is, yes, for pens, but Jim McPhail is also using it on his layered bowls. (Man those things are dinky!) While I was thinking about patching some small holes in the wood, I thought I might as well finish these small bowls this way also..

Why would you not finish with CA glue? Is it just too risky?

And now another question (and idea) comes to mind. What kind of plastic is it that doesn't stick to CA glue very readily? Antifreeze jug and oil jug material come to mind...

Could you not have some gloves made of this material? I'd rather have my glove stuck to the lathe, than my hand, anyway.

And back to one of my original questions.. What weights of super glue do you use for different applications?

Is there an online reference somewhere that explains CA glue uses? Hmmmm time to do a Google search...
 
Take a look at the sites for Starbond and for Stick Fast. Both have information that may be of use to you.

The glue degrades over time so order only what you think you might use in six months or so. I purchase 16 oz. of the thinner glues at a time and store the excess in the refrigerator or freezer.
 
I got a chuckle out of it too! Thanks for posting the CA stories Dietrich!

Probably the only reason I don't have similar stories is that I don't use CA very much. But I never pass up an opportunity to stress safety. Make sure you have a faceshield to keep any uncured CA from flinging into your face when you turn on the lathe. Fortunately this recommendation is not from experiencing a problem 🙂
 
Hey Jim.

Glad everyone seems glued to my stories about CA misshaps. Did I forget to mention the countless little hard spots on my jeans, t-shirts, fleeces, etc? Gotta let it dry before turning the lathe on.

Medium CA is my favorite for filling gaps and glueing segments together. Thin is my favorite for wicking in to thin cracks and stabilizing punky wood or bark.

The reason I would tend not to use CA to finish bowls is that you're gonna be pretty pressed to get a consistant coat on before it's hardening. Chances are you'd end up with an irregular mess as some soaks in, some builds up, and other spots run the freeze. That's not to mention foamup where a large amount pools then boils. It works for pens because they have such small surface area and you can get an even coat on before it solidifies (with practice).

As for sticking to hands, those nice, purple vinyl surgical gloves you can by by the hundreds work just fine.


Dietrich
 
I hear that the CA goes right through the latex gloves.

I was perusing the web for information on CA glue. The Permabond website gave certain surfaces that CA wouldn't adhere to.

http://www.permabond.com/tips022104.html


I was told by a pen turner that CA gives the best finish on the pens, and the way to apply it was with a piece of plastic.

It would be worth it to see how Jim applies his glue to his bowls.
 
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Think you got glue problems?

Back in the 70's I was running a model RR specialty shop, and CA was relatively new. I had a customer who arrived with his finger in his mouth. It seemed that he had been using a #11 X-Acto knife to stick small detail parts onto a scale building. Somehow he managed to jab the end of his index finger just after he got CA on the part. What's the immediate reaction to punctured finger? Insert in mouth! Result - finger stuck to tongue! He didn't know what to use as a solvent and just drove over to find out. I told him Acetone, as in nail polish remover. After he visited the drug store next door, he informed us that nail polish remover tastes like @#$%.

True story!


JimQ
 
Michael Mode uses CA to finish some of his pieces and applies it in the same manner as one applies shellac to obtain a "french polish" with the piece on the lathe- if I remember correctly. Consider emailing Michael for more details of his method. I has been a while since I saw his demo and can't lay hands on my notes. Most of Michael's work does not fall in the functional category.

A thick layer of thick CA will remain liquid under the dried surface skin even using an accelerant. Allow extra time for drying 20 minutes or more.
 
Man Jim,

You had me laughing out loud... And yeah as bad as Acetone smells, I imagine the taste is even worse!

After doing a search on this forum for CA glue, I found that you should be aware that CA glue doesn't always cure "instantly". I think it was -E- that noted it can explode in a liquid cloud if you hit an uncured pocket while turning. 😱

It would be really wise if you had your face shield on at this point...

What brands do you all use?

A friend of mine who finishes pens with CA glue likes:
Thin USA Gold brand

I also uncovered these links while doing an internet search:

CA Glue

WoodWebs summary of several posts on the subject:
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Cyanoacrylate_adhesive.html

Documents available on the "HotStuff" brand:
http://www.woodfinishsupply.com/HOT.html
http://www.woodfinishsupply.com/WhereToUseHotStuff.html
http://www.woodfinishsupply.com/SolvingCloggedSpouts.html

Permabond brand tips:
http://www.permabond.com/tips022104.html

Stickfast brand basic guidelines:
http://stickfast.net/basic_guidelines.htm#What is it?

Medical uses:
http://www.devicelink.com/rc/adhesives/articles.html

Don't mess with this worthless link:
http://www.adhesivesguide.com/

Good for lots of finishing questions:
http://www.woodfinishsupply.com/articles.html
 
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CA glue

A word of caution. It took me 4 months ( 4-5 years ago) to figure out why on weekends I would get so stuffed up nasally that no air passed, taking 3 applications of nose drops to get any air through -and a burning in my chest 6-8 hours after using CA. :mad: So I am very careful to hold my breath, and if I get a good whiff of it, I try to remember to take an antihistamine, decongestant. A pen turner I have recently befriended has the same reaction.
That being said, it is great (esp thick stuff) for painful finger cracks. I also glued up my son's chin at half time during a high school football game. It worked great. 2 weeks later he split the chin again, but 1/4 inch away from the previous bond!!! I used sutures this time so he could show them off at school 😀 Gretch
 
CA Glue

I just started turning pens, I had one with a split I wanted to fill with some malachite I crushed it mixed it with the Thick CA, fast and attempted to spread it into the crack I was hard and clicked on the wood when it got there. I think the hole mix and spread process took about 15 seconds. If I just pour the CA onto the wood and sprinkle the malachite it took about 10 minutes to harden. The vapors from CA are used to lift finger prints on almost any surface and I guess they will adhere to your nose and lungs as well. I think I will start holding my breath too.
 
I was patching up a spalted area in a small bowl last night, and finally experienced some of these symptoms. It was actually hurting my eyes... Whew! Time to get an exhaust fan for this stuff!

And I also ran out of glue. I need to find a cheap source...
 
I think a fair number of clubs buy in bulk and sell at meetings. At our club, accellerant is $3 and glue is $4 for 2 oz. Not half bad, considering that the Woodcraft who hosts us (and is good with us doing this) sells 2oz. for $10.

Dietrich

P.S.(careful if you're wearing a face mask when you're glueing. It concentrates those vapors just fine if they get up under it.)
 
Forgive me if someone already mentioned this, but for folks who only need a little CA, the dollar stores and some W-marts have the thin glue in packages of 4 small tubes for a buck, total of .47 ounces, so still just a little more than 2 bucks an ounce. I only use a little from time to time, and have stored the rest in sealed plastic bag in refrigerator (not the one where we keep the food). Someone has written that it will keep up to 6 months this way.
 
Applying, Cure Time, & Finishing Clues

I occasionally use CA for finishing pen barrels but it isn’t my preferred finish. I use it primarily for soft absorbent woods like buckeye, hardening cross-grain blanks, or punky and spalted woods. It hardens the wood so that you can get a cleanly polished surface. It is necessary to get even absorption in order to avoid a blotchy appearance. Depending on the material, this can be tricky to achieve. Don’t over sand the surface either. You want to be sure you are at your finished dimensions before applying the CA.

When cured, CA is basically a polycarbonate plastic; in other words acrylic. I believe that it is seen on the molecular level as being composed of long chain carbon molecules. The reason it binds so well is that these long chains wrap around other molecules as long as the CA can penetrate at the molecular surface of the joining materials.

When dry, it doesn’t matter what brand, they are all the same. The difference is in the liquid state. Different companies use different types of alcohols in their formulations. The wet CA is stabilized through PH balancing of the chemical contents. Latent moisture on the surfaces being glue causes a PH change in the CA solution. This change frees the alcohol element to evaporate, consequently freeing the other components to catalyze with each other and harden into a solid plastic. The catalyzing reaction creates heat which in turn boils off more of the alcohol forcing the cure to accelerate.

It is my experience that alkaline surfaces produce a faster cure than acid surfaces. This may simply be the nature of the particular brand I’m using (USA Gold). Heat obviously also contributes to the “flash†factor too. One tip if you want to slow the cure and have a little more working time – chill the surface you are applying the glue to. With pen blanks I’ll stick them in the freezer for about 5 minutes before I glue them. This adds several seconds to the cure time.

I use packing foam as a glue spreader. This is the flexible closed cell wrapping material 1/8†– ¼†thick. I grab a piece from a dumpsters behind the local mall once in a while; be sure it’s clean though. Cut it into a small square; about 2†works great. This material won’t cause the CA to flash and seems to resist wanting to stick to it. After using you can discard it or snip the edge off with scissors to use it again.
 
Dude!

Thanks seriously for the more detailed description of how CA hardens. I was aware it was a state change but was not aware solvents were involved. This is actually helpful in planning how to use it (or missuse it, as the case may be). And, yup. Alkaline tends to accellerate it. Mixing a bit of baking soda into sawdust as a filler can help avoid wet spots that linger.

Thanks,
dietrich
 
😛

That's funny, but no, that's not what I was thinking.

I was just wondering if adding alcohol (of what type?) to the CA glue might prolong the curing process in some fashion. Who knows?

From the desription it would not reverse the cure, or thin the glue, in the case of old stuff that had gotten a bit thick... or would it?

Perhaps we've just 'swerved' into something here. Could thicker glues be thinned with alcohol?

Just wondering...
 
Jim, my guess is that what Bill was referring to was that the alcohols used as solvents for CA aren't in the typical classes we're familiar with, such as ethanol and methanol.

Though, come to think of it, having ethanol around can help keep you kinda loose until someone else gets home to hand you the solvent you left out of reach, thus "curing" you in a sense.

Dietrich
 
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underdog said:
Wow... thanks for the extra info.

Does this mean we could use alcohol to inhibit the curing process?
Click to expand...

I hadn’t thought about it before. It might be worth a test. As has been stated, these alcohols aren’t the typical drugstore type though.
 
CA glues

I've always bought my CA products from Hobbytown, USA. They are a national chain, and their glues and accelerators are very good. They also offer them in larger refill-size bottles, at quite a savings.
Cheers,
John
 
CA Glue

CA seems to be so much cheaper in the States than here in the UK! I think I'll look into having some shipped over...

I turn a lot of English Yew, some of which was felled in 1968!, and consequently use a good deal of it for crack filling/support/brass and copper infil, and such like.

Not long after I began turning I was in the small shed I then used turning a bowl in Oak. There were some nasty cracks in it, and, remembering a tip one of our club members had given me, got to work with sawdust and CA glue. Without thinking I turned the lathe on almost immediatley. Well, you can guess...the glue sprayed out over my (unprotected) face. Some went into, or on, my eye...immediate reaction? To rub it with my finger...

So there I am, at about 10.00p.m. standing in the shed with my finger stuck to my eye lid thinking..."If I go in and ask her to help me she'll never let me out here again!"

I eventually managed to part the parts that should not be attached by using a pencil and wincing a lot. You don't forget that in a hurry!

Since then I've had no other major accidents but do find I often have brass or copper covered finger tips! It somes off in time 🙂
 
Problems to avoid when using CA glue

I know an excellent turner and teacher in the Annapolis, Maryland, area who was gluing a waste block on a bowl blank in front of a new class. He told me that he spread the glue on the waste block, placed it on the blank and leaned over and pushed down hard on the block. When he released it and backed up he discovered that he had glued the blank and the block to his pants. They had no solvent there and I think he had to cut holes in his blue jeans in order to detach the blank and continue the class.

Many people use face shields when applying CA glue. I urge you to REMOVE your shield and dust mask before you apply the glue. Otherwise you will get a concentrated dose of fumes from the glue and accelerant that is trapped by these devices and you breathe more of it than you would otherwise. Put them back on before you turn the lathe on lest uncured droplets may hit your face. If you use a Racal or other face shield with a little fan this advice is REALLY important. DAMHIKT. You get a really concentrated dose of fumes with such a shield.
 
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Jeff Jilg said:
I got a chuckle out of it too! Thanks for posting the CA stories Dietrich!

Probably the only reason I don't have similar stories is that I don't use CA very much. But I never pass up an opportunity to stress safety. Make sure you have a faceshield to keep any uncured CA from flinging into your face when you turn on the lathe. Fortunately this recommendation is not from experiencing a problem 🙂
Click to expand...


Too add to this suggestion if you don't want CA on your expensive face shield wait and watch Hf ever few weeks they have their cheapy one on sale for 1.99. It is by no means one i would want to turn with while wearing but for finishing and glueing it is a cheap disposable source of protection.
 
CA glue

F.Y.I......I like to use the stuff (medium thickness) and used DRY coffee grounds to fill voids. Simply tamp the void full of coffee, then squirt in some C.A., then shoot with accelerator. Repeat as needed. Let set about 10 minutes or so, then sand and finish. I love this technique. Kinda looks like a bark inclusion......
 
Mr. Don said:
F.Y.I......I like to use the stuff (medium thickness) and used DRY coffee grounds to fill voids. Simply tamp the void full of coffee, then squirt in some C.A., then shoot with accelerator. Repeat as needed. Let set about 10 minutes or so, then sand and finish. I love this technique. Kinda looks like a bark inclusion......
Click to expand...

Why not bark? The same mill that grinds your coffee can grind bark, too. Burr mill type the best, to my way of thinking. I keep bark of different types available for splitting and stuffing in larger spots, smashing and packing in smaller. Kinda looks like a coffee inclusion.

NB : Put a tape dam on the outside of an inside fill and give the CA some extra time to solidify or you'll find the most interesting patterns to be sanded off after turning on the lathe.
 
CA glue questions

When Sanding I place a piece of paper below the turning to catch the dust. I save the various dusts and use them to fill voids and cracks with either matching or contrasting colors of dust. The method that works best for me is to do the first sanding then fill the cracks with dry dust then saturate with thin CA glue and finally work a bit more sanding dust on top of the wet glue leaving a slight build up which is easily sanded smooth. I also crush turquoise into a very fine powder and use the same process. If the void goes all the way through just put a piece of masking tape on the backside and finish both sides.
One creveat: Don't do this if you are going to use an oil finish. The oil won't penetrate the area sealed by the glue and leave a nasty splotch.
 
CA glue and oil finish

Thanks for the suggestion Gretch. I'll try it. I would have guessed that the oil would have interferred with a good bond but perhaps not.
 
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