cremation urns

[Gary Chapman]

Anyone,
I have a local mortuary who wants me to due their cremation urns but this is new to me.
Does anyone have any experience in this area?
Since pre-planning would be a problem and drying time is the next problem,how can I approach them with a plan?
Making up a collection of urns seems to be too much up to chance and having a special order style would take too long since drying takes 6 to 8 months.
I need some advise to approach them and give them some options.
HELP- Gary

 

[Mark Mandell]

Hi Gary,

I've done a number of urns, both keepsake and full size, for human and pet cremains.

I usually prefer the basic ginger jar form with snap-rim caps.

Mine have all be done end-grain and, if turned wet, drying is not a problem as they are mostly "spin" dried during the process, and need to be bagged for only about 2 weeks at most to let them equalize.

I consult with the family members for various options such as size, wood species and color, form, and finish. I'd therefore suggest you work up a number of samples and loan them or a good photo portfolio to the mortuary.

Urns need to be sized to accept given amounts of cremains based upon the formula of 1 cubic inch per pound of live weight at the time of death. Cremains must be sealed to prevent water vapor from infusing the mass because otherwise the powder will become like a rock. The mortuary will put the ashes in a dense plastic bag the gets heat-sealed, so your urn's volume needs to be increased to accept the bag and the opening will need to be large enough to allow insertion. I have done several, however, where the interior was triple-coated with epoxy and then the cap epoxied in place instead of the bag, and one where the bag was put into the jar first, the ashes poured in, and the fill spout sealed and pushed into the jar last.

A note on caps/lids: Plan on either a snap-rim configuration or use inserted thread-sets. I've seen several done with PVC threaded sections like plumbing fittings.

Hope this helps

 

[Chris Neilan]

Hi Gary,

I've done a number of urns, both keepsake and full size, for human and pet cremains.

I usually prefer the basic ginger jar form with snap-rim caps.

Mine have all be done end-grain and, if turned wet, drying is not a problem as they are mostly "spin" dried during the process, and need to be bagged for only about 2 weeks at most to let them equalize.

I consult with the family members for various options such as size, wood species and color, form, and finish. I'd therefore suggest you work up a number of samples and loan them or a good photo portfolio to the mortuary.

Urns need to be sized to accept given amounts of cremains based upon the formula of 1 cubic inch per pound of live weight at the time of death. Cremains must be sealed to prevent water vapor from infusing the mass because otherwise the powder will become like a rock. The mortuary will put the ashes in a dense plastic bag the gets heat-sealed, so your urn's volume needs to be increased to accept the bag and the opening will need to be large enough to allow insertion. I have done several, however, where the interior was triple-coated with epoxy and then the cap epoxied in place instead of the bag, and one where the bag was put into the jar first, the ashes poured in, and the fill spout sealed and pushed into the jar last.

A note on caps/lids: Plan on either a snap-rim configuration or use inserted thread-sets. I've seen several done with PVC threaded sections like plumbing fittings.

Hope this helps

First of all I'd like to start by saying I am a third generation funeral director so I think I have a feel of what goes on. Turning urns on an as needed bases will not work. People generally don't want to wait and then re-visit what is usually a traumatic time in their lives. Have an assortment ready, possibly leaving the tenon on in case you have to customize.
The formula for sizing the urn is totally false. The ashes have relatively little if anything to do with body weight. The cremated remains are made up of skeletal matter only. I'm not big boned, I'm fat. (Sorry) my ashes will fit in the same size urn that a similarly sized but thin persons will.
I have yet to see a heat sealed bag containing ashes. It's a cable tie. If the ashes are to be put into an urn, a new bag is placed into the urn, and the ashes are transferred into that bag, closed with a tie, and the urn sealed. Very simple and tastefully done. Snap caps are good, threaded inserts even better. You can get the at Lee Valley Tools, PVC also works.
In regards to marketing them to funeral homes, bear in mind that the average urn retails for under $400, and we can buy wholesale from the national suppliers for well under that. My point is, stick to domestic woods or you price yourself out of the market.
I think that a hand turned urn can fill a need. Good luck and post pictures.

Chris

p.s. I have never tried to turn an urn for my business. It's too time consuming. However, Mini keepsake urns (think boxes) would be great.

 

[Mark Mandell]

The formula for sizing the urn is totally false. The ashes have relatively little if anything to do with body weight. The cremated remains are made up of skeletal matter only.

I have been told just the opposite by at least 3 funeral directors and have seen the formula published widely such as here
http://www.mainelyurns.com/what-size-cremation-urn.html

I have yet to see a heat sealed bag containing ashes.

My uncle's, my mother's and sister's ashes were all put in heat sealed plastic which we had to cut when their cremains were scattered per their wishes. This was explained to me as required because ashes are very hydroscopic and can solidify into a lump unless tightly sealed. Not meaning to argue, but your post contradicts what I've been consistently told and have passed along to others.

 

[cwearing]

some of this is covered on one of Mike Mahoney's DVD

 

[Mark Mandell]

An Update

Since what Chris posted was in conflict with what I've been told by others, I contacted the Cremation Association of North America to ask questions. They referred me to the Illinois Cremation Society, a large operation whose President, Jerry Sullivan, was very helpful. On the two points discussed his info was as follows:

Size: The formula (1 cu. in. to each lb. of live weight) appears reasonable when you need special-sized urns. Industry standard is 200 cubic inches, but he readily acknowledged that a large person's cremains would not fit, and such a size would be far too large for a pet's remains, so any system to reduce or enlarge the container should be fine.

Sealing: He had not heard about problems with moisture-caking of cremains in a closed urn and couldn't say that heat sealing the plastic bag would be much of a benefit over a twist-tie. Such sealing might just be a matter of the particular crematory's standard procedure.

So, as long as you're doing a single container, it's a safe bet to just figure on the 200 cu.in. inside volume dimension.

If, however, you're doing a multi-part piece for cremains to be held by two or more family members that formula will come in very handy. I recently did the 3-part interlocking box urn pictured so I had to be careful to provide sufficient volume in each section.

 

[gary rock]

Mark-

Great looking boxes for urns and a fantastic idea that you came up with to join the three together. Thanks for the info.

Gary

 

[Mark Mandell]

Hi Gary,

The design was a sort of a collaboration with the family members who expressed the wish that the individual urns "somehow fit together" as a whole since they will be rejoined in the future as the holders pass on themselves. Hence the "puzzle-box" idea. The boxes interlock in a specified order and when the lids are secured, can't be separated. It was fun and time figuring that one out.😉

 

[Gary Chapman]

Here are two children urns made for our local funeral parlor. My reception for making their urns was terrific. They want to make some very small pieces ( 3" tall ) for dividing up remains for different family members. I had never heard of that. Gary.

 

[Mark Mandell]

Very nice, Gary. Keep in mind that you can also offer laser engraving of the name and dates on the flat bottom of each item. You'll find laser engravers (usually trophy guys) in your phone book and it should cost under $20 to do.

PS: For the engraver, you'll need to check to make sure that your piece will fit on the CNC table under the laser. Some have 6" limits while others can take up to 12"

 

[Gary Chapman]

Very nice, Gary. Keep in mind that you can also offer laser engraving of the name and dates on the flat bottom of each item. You'll find laser engravers (usually trophy guys) in your phone book and it should cost under $20 to do.

PS: For the engraver, you'll need to check to make sure that your piece will fit on the CNC table under the laser. Some have 6" limits while others can take up to 12"

Mark,
Thanks a lot, you have been very helpful.. This urn venture is something very new to me. I usually turn mostly bowls and jars. Gary