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Cosmic Cloud

Jerry Maske

Jerry Maske

Joined
Nov 8, 2013
Messages
41
Likes
56
Location
Sullivan, Maine
I've been enamored by Tim Yoder's Cosmic Cloud pieces and used his video to learn the process; thank's Tim. It's answered most of my questions. Now, I've begun the experimentation process where I'm trying different kinds of wood and run into an "issue." To be sure, we all know that different woods work up differently. Well, in this process, not only is all that true, but I've found that different woods suck up the finish and paint differently too!

So far I've tried Maple I harvested off the back of my property in Maine, and it worked well. Sanded smooth, took the finish well and created a mirror smooth finish for the black. Next I tried African Mahogany. It worked well too but no matter what I did in the sanding or seal process, the grain seemed to stand out. Not objectionable, but I'd have preferred a mirror smooth finish. And seeing the grain even through the black surprised me. Finally, I tried Purple Heart. Worked up like the raging monster Purple Heart is. After I pulled out the splinters, and started the sanding and seal process, I could not get it as smooth as I wanted. Grain kept rising, I'd sand it down, apply a seal coat only to have the grain rise up again. After several repetitions, I called it "good" and put on the black.

The next step includes cutting pattern definition rings. I did that okay, took my air compressor to blow away some of the debris and watched in horror as some of the black paint BLEW OFF! Got all that corrected and finished the piece without much more adventure.

So, my question is; have any of you had these sorts of problems applying finishes and paint on your piece? I know a lot of wood turners cringe at the idea of painting wood, but this process is exciting. I like the way the Mahogany worked, and I've got plenty of Maple, so I'm not without working supply. But I wondered if any of you had recommendations of what types of wood may work better for me.

Thanks,
JerryDSC_0057.jpg
 
short answer yes. I'm still trying to figure out what to seal the wood with so that I don't have to apply many coats of paint. I assume your talking about the black background color. I have been using india ink for my irrediscent paint pieces and air brush pieces. I did find on maple mirrors I can spray with a flat black paint. Maybe 2 coats works well. On porous woods like Walnut or Mahagony the grain still shows through but I kind of like that. I did a bunch of mushrooms a while back for an article and had a very hard time getting a glossy color. I tried several different sealers and still when you used spray piant it would take 5 to 10 coats to get an even finish. The wood would just keep soaking it up in a few sections. This was with a lot of species.
 
John,
We're having the same problems. Tim's process is to sand to 325 and apply spray wood seal; there's a bunch of those from which to choose. Then comes the black, cutting the rings and turning the bowl center. And it sounds like you're having the same troubles, or experiences I'm having. I didn't mind the way the grain showed through on the African Mahogany, but I'd like the choice as to whether or not it should be there. The mirror smooth finish I got on the one pictured here, Maple, is more what I'm after. I found that when I applied several coats of black, the turning process got mucked up. So two coats of black is as much as I want to apply. Guess I'll stay with Maple.

Tim advised using Ash. As it turned out, I had some from a friend, tried it and the way the grain laid out, it sucked up the finish worse than anything else I've tried. So I'll not bother with Ash for this process. That was a royal mess.

Thanks for letting me know I'm not the only one suffering with these problems. I think a large part of any craft is Problem Solving. So, I'm off to solve some problems. Currently working on a segmented bowl with some lamination tricks for the feature ring. However, the rest of the bowl is giving me fits. For now, I'll call it a "Learning Curve" rather than using my Navy vocabulary.

Jerry
 
I like Bradford pear.....after turning put in drawer leave 5 days + or - 5 days til completely dry.....sand to 220 grit....2 coats of gesso white or your choice.....then add color in your idea
 
There are ways to fill the grain and then paint but that just adds time and expense. I would stick with maple, cherry, and other woods that don't have large pores.
 
Just my opinion but if you sand to a high grit it leave less 'tooth' for the paint and finishes to stick too. I have had no problems with painting any of my wood. My only issue is if I use a enamel, apply the paint and Jo-sonia and then use a spray can of Lacquer to finish the enamel cracks. Gotta remember to stay with lacquer on lacquer or a different finish on enamel. I sand to 220, spray on sanding sealer, sand (220), another coat of sealer sand 220 or 400) then spray the black or white and then the highlights and finish with clear gloss or matt lacquer.I do beg to differ on one item, people continue to credit Mr. Yoder but actually Gary Lowe is who I think started this process and is whom Mr. Yoder modelled his work after.
 
Pete,
In fact, Tim mentions Gary in his video and does give him credit. I don't know who came up with this idea to begin with, but the two of them are pretty good at it. I'd never heard about using Enamel over Lacquer and having cracks show up. Frankly, I'm using whatever Tim used in his video, but I am running short so I'll keep your guidance in mind when I replenish my supply.

Also, you mentioned using WHITE as the background? Never even thought of that. Do you have a picture of how that came out? Black does pop the Jo-sania colors but I never considered white. Been terribly busy with other projects of late, but I had started an experiment with black that I plan to sand down and use leather dyes, like deep green, and see if that would work. Of course, the green color paint would need to be used cautiously.

Anyway, thanks for the comments. I've looked at Gary Lowe's work too and see that he uses a totally different artistic approach. Not gooder or badder; just different.
 
If you use lighter background colors the irredescent colors aren't as strong. You have to put them on much thicker, possibly without mixing in the Flow extender which tends to dilute the colors. I painted a board with black, gray and white and then ran the colors on it to see how they looked. I also played with different dilutions of the flow extender. About 50/50 flow extender to paint works as good as any other dilution.
 
Okay, more good ideas. Never thought about the fireplace black spray. As well as that works on iron stoves, I bet it DOES work well as a background coat. I use a spray on sanding seal as Tim recommends. Usually two coats with a light sanding in between. John, I think I understand how the white would dilute the colors. Some of them aren't too powerful visually anyway and need the black to Pop them. But your idea of painting a board with several background colors and trying them is a good one; thank you. Now it looks like I need a trip to Home Depot for a variety of things.

Thanks guys.
 
Jerry Maske said:
Okay, more good ideas. Never thought about the fireplace black spray. As well as that works on iron stoves, I bet it DOES work well as a background coat. I use a spray on sanding seal as Tim recommends. Usually two coats with a light sanding in between. John, I think I understand how the white would dilute the colors. Some of them aren't too powerful visually anyway and need the black to Pop them. But your idea of painting a board with several background colors and trying them is a good one; thank you. Now it looks like I need a trip to Home Depot for a variety of things.

Thanks guys.
Click to expand...
I like the fireplace black because it's super flat paint, does not take away from paints at all , and makes colors pop, and you can add whatever gloss you want for finish. That was a mistake as only had that paint in shop when did my first one and it sticks to anything, and I've never had a problem with lacquer or water poly on top of it.
 
Glen,
I don't have an appropriate piece to try the Stove Black with just now but that can be solved as soon as the weather breaks. Last summer I took down some Maples that were showing signs of rot and probably wouldn't last much longer anyway. I've got some nice pieces out of that but they are still wet. They are in half log cuts but need to go the next step, and they will in the next week. Then wait for them to dry and I'll see what I can do with them. In the mean time, I do have some scrap pieces around that I can get some Stove Black and try. Sounds like a great idea and I appreciate you sharing. As it works, or doesn't, I'll pass along whatever I learn.
 
Jerry, you are quite right Tim does in fact credit Gary, I just wanted to point out that Tim got the idea from Gary's videos. As far as using the Jo Sponia Iridescent paints on white they do not show up very well. Having said that the idea does I think have some merit because when a piece is viewed from an angle the colors show. It is a nice little surprise to anyone who picks up a piece.I have I hope attached two photos. The white one has Black paint and Violet and gold Jo Sonia. Sorry iPhone photo's I haven't taken the time to do a better job yet. Oh, by the way I used White Plasticoat Lacquer on the white one and it cracked under my usual lacquer finish so I stripped it off and am presently doing a black one instead. IMG_6092.jpg 1385E392-92EE-4621-AA7A-531A78F2C7A1.jpg (in this photo the Jo Sonia paint can only really be seen when it is magnified) while the green piece was dyed the usual way and then gold jo sonia was applied.
 
I use a black background on many of my pieces that I have decorated with no problems at all I generally sand to 600grit then apply my sander sealer and then another very light sand with the 600 before applying a spray ebonising black I have had no problems with it lifting off. Iff the grain is quite prominant then I apply the sander sealer, light sand to the last git I used and mask as usual and fill the grain then another light sanding This leaves a surface good enough to apply my ebonising spray. Osing these methods I get a nice smooth surface to apply any decoration that I require.
 
Appreciate all the guidance, folks. It tells me there's a lot of room to experiment here, and I'm good at that.

Pete, how did you get those straight lines out from the center of the green piece? That's a pretty neat way to deal with it. And I can see the colors on the white one without too much trouble, so a lighter background may have merit. Actually, I've got a Gold piece ready to paint even as we speak; may get to that today. Got some other things in line ahead of that, but spraying the paint is fun and I can do that in the afternoons when my mind turns to mush.

The picture is of the African Mahogany piece I did. I like the color of the Mahogany against all the others pretty well. I've included it here because at the bottom you CAN see some of the surface distortion I was talking about. The wood simply would not sand smooth and stay that way. Regardless of how many coast of sanding seal I applied, the grain raised up right through it. I still like the piece, but that was where my initial question came from

Thanks again for all the guidance and ideas.Flowers.jpg
 
Jerry Maske said:
Appreciate all the guidance, folks. It tells me there's a lot of room to experiment here, and I'm good at that.

Pete, how did you get those straight lines out from the center of the green piece? That's a pretty neat way to deal with it. And I can see the colors on the white one without too much trouble, so a lighter background may have merit. Actually, I've got a Gold piece ready to paint even as we speak; may get to that today. Got some other things in line ahead of that, but spraying the paint is fun and I can do that in the afternoons when my mind turns to mush.

The picture is of the African Mahogany piece I did. I like the color of the Mahogany against all the others pretty well. I've included it here because at the bottom you CAN see some of the surface distortion I was talking about. The wood simply would not sand smooth and stay that way. Regardless of how many coast of sanding seal I applied, the grain raised up right through it. I still like the piece, but that was where my initial question came from

Thanks again for all the guidance and ideas.View attachment 24678
Click to expand...
Very nice piece Jerry, indeed!
 
Jerry Maske said:
Appreciate all the guidance, folks. It tells me there's a lot of room to experiment here, and I'm good at that.

Pete, how did you get those straight lines out from the center of the green piece? That's a pretty neat way to deal with it. And I can see the colors on the white one without too much trouble, so a lighter background may have merit. Actually, I've got a Gold piece ready to paint even as we speak; may get to that today. Got some other things in line ahead of that, but spraying the paint is fun and I can do that in the afternoons when my mind turns to mush.

The picture is of the African Mahogany piece I did. I like the color of the Mahogany against all the others pretty well. I've included it here because at the bottom you CAN see some of the surface distortion I was talking about. The wood simply would not sand smooth and stay that way. Regardless of how many coast of sanding seal I applied, the grain raised up right through it. I still like the piece, but that was where my initial question came from

Thanks again for all the guidance and ideas.View attachment 24678
Click to expand...
Greetings again Jerry. Nice piece, on my laptop I am unable to see the problem with paint adherence.I really like to experiment that is why the white piece. In the end though I removed the white and made this
IMG_6122.jpg
Don't get ,e wrong I am all about trying things that seem at first blush to be out of the ordinary so I am sure I will return to light/white backgrounds. I get the lines in a controlled manner by using my horizontal spinner. You can see more details on my blog if you are interested.
https://woodbowlsandthings.wordpress.com/2018/02/06/horizontal-spinner-for-wood-art/
Keep up the great work!
 
So, to be clear, you're using centrifugal force to move the paint out from the middle? That's actually a fascinating idea, but I wouldn't have thought 1000 RPM would be enough. Are you using a thinner or just what you can buy off the shelf at Home Depot? Nice work, great idea.

Now, you live on Kauai? Where? I've got a couple friends out there and had some contact with the Barking Sands area when I was in the Navy. I was stationed at Fleet Training Group and we used the telemetering range at Barking Sands to qualify ships to go the Western Pacific waters. Anyway, that's a long time ago. I have a friend on Kauai that occasionally will find some wood to send me as long as I pay her a reasonable dollar amount. Works well. She actually got me some Koa a while back. Hard to find if you're an "Off Islander."
 
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