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Compressor problems

Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
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Location
N.W. Alabama
I need a little help. Last night, my Porter Cable 6hp 25 gal compressor suddenly got extremely loud and continues to be that loud. The sound is similar to a baffle being gone or a muffler, may even sound as if there is not much back pressure as it fills but no air is being lost. I put on ear protection and plugged it back in and I think it is filling very slow. I didn't let it run long enough to see if it will kick off. Does anyone have any ideas. It doesn't have a lot of use, mostly sanding dust and some air nailing. Thanks for any help. (If i can repair it, that beats a new one.
Thanks,
Mike
 
Make sure the oil level is high enough. Mine does that when the oil is low or if I haven't run it in a few days.
 
you may have some trash under one of the valve seats, causing the problem.(you know how wood chips are they get ever where even where you don't expect them)
 
OK, Gordon. What is that???? I guess I was using the term loosely. Any suggestions on what's going on? I checked the schematis on the valve(s), it doen't "look" too difficult to get to not considering the torque requirements printed on the sheet.
Thanks
Mike
 
Usually oil less compressor are smaller hp. For 6 hp, most likely it is oil-lube.

Since Porter Cable doesn't make a 6 hp compressor, it is most likely the PC Model C6110 which is a 25 gal. oil-free 120v compressor and is actually 1.7 hp max when running.

Since Mike comments on slow pressure build and lots of noise, it sounds like a bent valve, probably on the intake side.

Mike, you can take it to a service guy for a more informed opinion. If it is a valve and not the cam, valve guide, or seat, you might get away with a fix. More than that and it'll usually be cheaper to start over.

What they don't tell you is these oil free units don't have near the life span of oil-lubed compressors.🙁


Good luck.

Correction: PC does make/market a 6hp compressor. It is also 30 amp, 240v, 80 gal., and 2-stage. Not anything like what Mike describes.
 
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Since Porter Cable doesn't make a 6 hp compressor, it is most likely the PC Model C6110 which is a 25 gal. oil-free 120v compressor and is actually 1.7 hp max when running.


Correction: PC does make/market a 6hp compressor. It is also 30 amp, 240v, 80 gal., and 2-stage. Not anything like what Mike describes.

Mark,
Google Model cpf6025vp. It's a Porter Cable, 6hp, 120v, 25 gal., oiless. It is a 6/2 hp at peak/load i believe. I had to double check.
Thanks for the info. I wondered not only what may be wrong but at what point is it a lost cause.
Thanks,
Mike
 
Mark,
Google Model cpf6025vp. It's a Porter Cable, 6hp, 120v, 25 gal., oiless. It is a 6/2 hp at peak/load i believe. I had to double check.
Thanks for the info. I wondered not only what may be wrong but at what point is it a lost cause.
Thanks,
Mike

Mike,

Just so you understand. There is no such thing as a 6 horsepower motor running on a 120 volt circuit. That rating has to do with the microsecond before the motor explodes into a pile of slag, and is used to market stuff to consumers who don't know any better. It actually has no worthwhile relationship to how well the tool will perform.

If/when you go shopping for a new compressor, ignore the BS "hp" ratings and compare units based upon the CFM (more accurately, the "SCFM") output of the pump as a function of how many amps the unit pulls. Pressure ratings have a bearing on how much air can be stored in the tank at a given time, but it's the volume of air the pump moves that does the work. Some of the better oil-free units like the Thomas compressors will run on a 15amp circuit and put out close to 5 cfm, but don't expect much more than 5 CFM on any machine running on 120v. My main compressor is an Ingersol-Rand, real 3 hp, 60 gal. unit that runs on a 240v 30amp circuit, and puts out 12 CFM. It lives in the garage rather than in my shop. 😉
 
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http://www.indiacatalog.com/tools7/B00004Z06E.html

How's this for hype:

this 25-gallon vertical air compressor, allows more usable air to be stored in the tank. The high-pressure design allows for longer run time between refills - it's like being able to fit 32 gallons of air in a 25-gallon tank - so you'll get more done.

Sorry Mike, I really can't answer your question, but you made me curious when you mentioned to do a google search.

BTW, it's really a 2HP compressor, and I even wonder about that.
 
Yep.... Learned something again from my fellow wood slayers. I guess I'll can this one and switch to the other. I think it was Steve Worcester that sent me a photo a good setup for my supply lines. Out of curiosity I'll check the rating on the one outside. I had to get it to have enough CFM to run a sandblast cabinet. Oh, since the ad "says" 6hp can I get partial credit?
Thanks fellows,
Mike
 
BTW, it's really a 2HP compressor, and I even wonder about that.

Says it pulls 15 amp at 115v. Aside from probably tripping many a 15amp breaker, the formula states it's a 1.85 hp motor.

115 (volts) x 15(amps) x .8(power factor) divided by 746 (watts per hp) = 1.85

m
 
Gee, attaching the photo was more work than taking it apart. If you don't mind take a look. Looks like the ring cap or something similar is bent. In you guys estimation is this fixable or is there something else that may have caused it and I may be throwing good money after bad?
It's only $38 for the kit but maybe there's a reason for the the mess up.
Mike
 

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Gee, attaching the photo was more work than taking it apart. If you don't mind take a look. Looks like the ring cap or something similar is bent. In you guys estimation is this fixable or is there something else that may have caused it and I may be throwing good money after bad?
It's only $38 for the kit but maybe there's a reason for the the mess up.
Mike

Sorry, Mike.

I'm not qualified to answer. Why don't you try sending the pic to PC tech service and ask them? Is that the only damage you found? How about scoring on any mating surfaces?
 
Hey Mark,
It's the only visible damage. The cylinder is light aluminum and I guess it did have some scoring although not deep (my only comparison would be brake rotors). I believe the kit comes with the rod and all of the pieces pictured. It will probably be worth the money to see if it works. I'm not much of a mechanic but I'm guessing the loudness comes from the additonal air passage by the valve in the cylinder.
Thanks,
Mike
 
If the cylinder is scored, you're going to have a tough time getting a seal and any real CFM out of that pump. I think you should call PC and ask before you buy any parts. Also ask if you can use a cylinder hone to reduce the scoring yet still maintain a sufficient piston seal for worthwhile operation.

mm
 
Mike - I had this same problem with a Campbell Hausfield portable compressor. The piston and pump were the oiless type. Thought about repairing and found that the parts were not made anymore. Bought a new IR portable from Northern Tool which is a dual piston belt driven type. Works fantastic and soooo much quieter. Kept the CH and will use the motor for something else but am going to connect the two tanks which are compatible and run them from the IR. You might consider doing the same. May not be worth the cost of repair at this point. Just a thought here!

Bill
 
FWIW http://www.aircompressorsreview.com/the-porter-cable-brand/ gives the rationale behind all the hype. The picture looks like the oilless equivalent of a blown ring, and the cylinder is probably scored beyond possible reuse with such damage.

I'd kiss it off and get a new one which at least slightly exceeds my expected requirements. Might even read some of the "reviews" on possibles.
 
Thanks for the input. I checked and the kit comes with the cylinder sleeve, rod, o-ring, compression ring and cap for approximately $38.00 That's not too bad considering the replacement cost of the compressor. My only concern now is what caused it (may never know) and is there an underlying problem that needs repair also. I emailed PC and I am waiting on a reply.
Thanks,
Mike
 
I'd look at it this way.

Lets say the repair last for a year, is it worth $38 to you?

If so, I'd do it.
 
Thanks for the input. I checked and the kit comes with the cylinder sleeve, rod, o-ring, compression ring and cap for approximately $38.00 That's not too bad considering the replacement cost of the compressor. My only concern now is what caused it (may never know) and is there an underlying problem that needs repair also. I emailed PC and I am waiting on a reply.

Damage and direction suggest it blew back under pressure. Wouldn't hurt to put a few less pounds of air in the tank to work against, though it may never happen again. The extra noise and slow filling were, of course the result of that piston losing air.
 
If it works a bit longer it's certainly worth the $38. As far as the damage mm I suspected the lack of a seal may have been the culprit. I haven't heard from PC and may not. I'll probabaly order the part and see what happens. Thanks for everyones input.
Mike
 
Says it pulls 15 amp at 115v. Aside from probably tripping many a 15amp breaker, the formula states it's a 1.85 hp motor.

115 (volts) x 15(amps) x .8(power factor) divided by 746 (watts per hp) = 1.85

m

While your math is fine, it starts off with an erroneous assumption. The 15 Amps refers to the required breaker size since compressor makers are too embarrassed to actually put the true motor HP rating onto the nameplate. All this still goes on despite a class action lawsuit several years ago in which the manufacturers got a mild slap on the wrist and the plaintiffs got a few cheesy trinkets and an empty promise.

I can assure you that if the motor can start and run on a 15 A circuit that it is no larger than one horsepower. The peak value of the initial starting current on this type induction motor typically runs 4 to 6 times the steady-state running current. The breaker can handle a momentary overload so it is able to absorb some of this initial surge, but NEC rules would limit the FLC to less than 12 Amps at any rate. Practical considerations necessitate that it be even less than that in order to minimize nuisance trips of the breaker.

You also used a power factor term which is not correct. The proper factor to use here is efficiency which is not related to PF. For this type motor, the efficiency is nominally 60 to 65 percent, so to be safe, plug 0.6 into your equation. Efficiency is the ratio of how much mechanical power is produced to how much electrical power is consumed. The difference between the two is how much of the power that gets converted into heat. If you put your hand on a compressor motor, you will know "right quick like" how really inefficient it is.

Gee, attaching the photo was more work than taking it apart. If you don't mind take a look. Looks like the ring cap or something similar is bent. In you guys estimation is this fixable or is there something else that may have caused it and I may be throwing good money after bad?
It's only $38 for the kit but maybe there's a reason for the the mess up.
Mike

Hey Mark,
It's the only visible damage. The cylinder is light aluminum and I guess it did have some scoring although not deep (my only comparison would be brake rotors). I believe the kit comes with the rod and all of the pieces pictured. It will probably be worth the money to see if it works. I'm not much of a mechanic but I'm guessing the loudness comes from the additonal air passage by the valve in the cylinder.
Thanks,
Mike

These oilless compressors are really simple little machines and doing an overhaul is easy. There is no scoring of cylinder walls to even worry about because the rebuild kit comes with new reed valves, piston, and kevlar cylinder wall. You will see that the aluminum block is just a mounting fixture for the parts and is unlikely to have any problems. The most likely cause of the sudden change in loudness is almost certainly due to a fatigue crack in the intake reed valve. If you wait long enough, it will break off and be ingested into the cylinder at which point there will be another sound change. Just don't ask me how I happen to know this. Anyway, the piston, cylinder wall, and valves were all toast in my compressor -- I installed the kit and it took less than an hour and I was back in business. Your next compressor needs to be oil type with real pistons and steel sleeve cylinders in a cast iron or aluminum block. Your ears will thank you and in the long run it will cost less.

If the cylinder is scored, you're going to have a tough time getting a seal and any real CFM out of that pump. I think you should call PC and ask before you buy any parts. Also ask if you can use a cylinder hone to reduce the scoring yet still maintain a sufficient piston seal for worthwhile operation.

mm

See above. It is not a problem.

Thanks for the input. I checked and the kit comes with the cylinder sleeve, rod, o-ring, compression ring and cap for approximately $38.00 That's not too bad considering the replacement cost of the compressor. My only concern now is what caused it (may never know) and is there an underlying problem that needs repair also. I emailed PC and I am waiting on a reply.
Thanks,
Mike

Yep, that sounds like the kit that I got.
 
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Your next compressor needs to be oil type with real pistons and steel sleeve cylinders in a cast iron or aluminum block. Your ears will thank you and in the long run it will cost less.



Thanks a lot. I'll feel better about it. PC has left me a couple of messages but no number so far. I do have an oilless behind my shop, it just wasn't in a permanent spot so I've never piped it in. Thanks again.
Mike
 
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