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compressed air system

Joined
May 6, 2004
Messages
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Location
Sonoma, CA
I have a new problem for all of you. Not quite woodturning - but related. I want to set up a compressed air system in my shop. I have the compressor but am tired of the hose coming from one end of the shop to the other end. The idea here is to place the compressor in a corner of the shop and build a sound reducing box around it - and have air outlets around the shop to put a short hose into. Thus no tripping on air hose all the time.

What I have seen in shops uses copper pipe. Do you solder the copper pipe like one does for plumbing? What about diameter of the pipe? If I run the pipe from the compressor to the ceiling and along the ceiling and then down the walls - do I need a drain on each one dropping down? What do I use for a drain? What about filters. I have an oil less compressor. Does anyone know of a good place to purchase cheap parts to build this system (like the connection joints for the hose, filters, drains)? Any other suggestions?
Thanks.
Hugh
 
To solder or not to solder

The safest way to do your system is with copper pipe and solder joints. However, you can also use heavy wall pvc and glued joints. Just make sure the you check the PSI rating of the PVC pipe. You can use either elbows or swept bends for corners. PVC also costs less.
 
Hi Hugh

I put copper piping in my shop just about a year ago. I used 1 1/4" pipe for the main run and 1" pipe for the drops. Each drop has a short rise in it, making a U turn from the top of the main run to keep some of the condensation from running down the drops. The whole thing is tilted slightly back towards the compressor, although I forgot to put a drain in. I need to do that, but for now I just hook up the blower on the end of the hose and give it a few seconds blast to clear out any condensation.

I soldered all the joints - 40 of them if I counted them accurately. For filters, I have a moisture trap I use when spraying finish, and I have an oil filter which has yet to be installed. I have four drops which will reach anywhere easily in my 600 sq ft shop. The drops are all just slightly above my head so they are not in the way.

I bought all my parts at Home Depot, and used the large pipe on the advice of Jeff Jewitt of finishing fame, who recommended using the largest pipe possible. It keeps the volume of air up, and also provides some extra storage. I would stay away from PVC. I have never seen it happen, but from what I have read, PVC will shatter in a very dramatic way if it is weakened in any way - for example, bumping it with a board, tool, or something similar.

Good luck with it, and if you have any more questions, I would be glad to try and answer them. It is a real luxury not having to drag the compressor all over the place any more, and I think you will really enjoy it once you get it done.

Bill
 
I have vague and potentially altered memories of a device much like a spring loaded extension cord holder that lets you draw out an air hose and, when done, draws it right back in. This, mounted at center of ceiling, might do the trick. It's what I plan to use (if it exists) in my shop.

Dietrich
 
Thanks for the info everyone. If anyone else has anything - feel free to add your two bits worth. I figure the more info the better. Then hopefully I will make the right decission. Bill - does Home Depot sell the female connector parts of the air system?
Hugh
 
Air

Hugh,

Need some more information as to your compressor before giving advice on set-up. What unit do you have? What is its labeled CFM output? What size is its storage tank?

All these things make a huge difference.

ps PVC pipe is prohibited for compressed air under OSHA regs, UNLESS it is wrapped in a steel sheath, because when it fails, it shatters sending schrapnel at high velosity right at you. Your shop may not be subject to OSHA regs, but watch (from the cloud) as the life insurance company denies your spouse's claim through one of several loopholes in your policy, or your homeowners policy doesn't help you cause your neighbor, visiting your shop, got killed.

Mark Mandell
 
Hugh said:
Bill - does Home Depot sell the female connector parts of the air system? Hugh

I was able to get everything I needed at HD, but it involved quite a few trips between aisles in the plumbing dept and the tool corral as I cobbled together all the copper and brass parts I needed to complete the ends.

Bill
 
Sorry I have not gotten back to this sooner. Have to spend some time turning wood you know.

It seems that I have not included enough information about my compressor and shop. So, if this helps - My shop is 24 x 40. I want to put the compressor at one end and build a insulated cover for it to deaden the sound. The compressor is a Porter-Cable medium size - 25 - 30 gal. tank - 110 volt - 130 - 140 psi max. I usually run it with 100 PSI to the hose. I do not run air equipment off it really. Mostly I use it to clean the chips out of hollow vessels and to clean off the lathe, etc. No spray equipment, or sandblasting. I am not going to use PVC pipe which might work - but I think copper is better (should get a nice patina over time also). The layout plan was to run a pipe from the compressor up to the ceiling and then along the length of the shop with 3 or 4 arms going to where I need them. On the arms that I am bringing down the wall - I thought I could put a "ball valve" at the bottom to bleed off any water, with a air fitting just above that to run the hose. Since I am using an oil less compressor I did not think I needed a filter inline. I could always add one at an outlet if I needed one later. I hope this is enough info this time. I will try to check the forum more often to keep this going up to speed. Thanks to all who have ideas. The more info the better I think. Have to run to the shop and start the chips flying.
Hugh
 
Just a thought

Don't forget your noiseless box covering your compresser must not be a airless or heat removing-less box. I would vent to the outside if your able to then the inside could be sound proof. Aim it at the bad neighbor next door. lol The retractable hoses have been used in mechanic shops for years and would be alittle cheaper I would guess. Then you only need one hose up to the device. In my shop it's just the regular flexible one and a quik coupling so I can take the compresor out to a flat if need be. I have a little compressor. Again just a thought. Joel
 
I used PVC for my air system. I use it for just supplying air like you mentioned to blow off stuff, spray guns for finishing, and for several air nailers and other tools. I also have one of the ceiling mounted hose reels (like old-fashioned gas stations) that I got from Home Depot on sale. I originally intended to do the right thing and use galvanized pipe, but in a need to get the job done I switched to PVC "temporarily". It has been there for years, so far I have been lucky and had no problems. I did hit one drop line with a board and it cracked. Obviously it blew out a lot of air before I could turn off the line but it really was not a big deal. I have heard horror stories but have not witnessed any.

I would like to convert to steel or copper some day when I have time.

Ray
 
Shop Air

Hugh,

From the information you have supplied I would make the following observations and suggestions.

You oil-free compressor was primarily designed for intermittant use such as with air nailers. That is Porter Cable's primary target, and the unit you bought is at the upper end of their 115v line with CFM output in the 5-7 range at 90 psi. I bring this up because this is not a compressor that will last if it is forced into a duty cycle of much more than 50%, meaning that the unit is asked to be actually running more than half of the time it's in use. That does just fine for nailers and even light use of such things as die grinders, impact wrenches and air ratchets. It will also do for light spray painting provided that your volume of stored air is sufficient to smooth out the compressor's pulsations as it loads and unloads and you don't push the compressor beyond the 50% run line.

A 25 gallon storage tank is fine for running air tools, but it will not be enough to hide the compressor pulse if you're going to be spray finishing where an even flo is very important. If you are not going to be spray painting, 1/2" type "L" copper will serve your needs nicely for a distribution system and it's much cheaper and easier to solder properly than large diameter pipe. Smaller piping will also minimize condensation of water vapor in your lines. If you find that you need/want more stored volume later, you can also hook an extra 10 or 20 gallon tank into your system without much expense. Just make sure that its pressure rating exceeds your system's max pressure output.

Once you have decided on a location for your compressor, plan out your distribution "tree". You must not, however, connect your piping directly to the compressor; do that with a jumper hose of about 3-4 feet in length. The jumper isolates your piping from the vibration of the running compressor which gives benefits. First, it protects your piping joints from vibration and stress breaking if the compressor gets bumped or moved a bit, and Second it keeps the compressor noise from be transmitted and amplified through the pipe system!

While your compressor came with an outflow regulator, it doesn't have any filter other than the joke they might have put on the intake valve (framing nailers with their huge ports and valving aren't fussy about a little dust). I strongly suggest that you install a filter/regulator unit on your primary line drop where you'll connect your hose and use air-powered tools (not needed for a blow-gun line). Filtered clean air is vital to airtools as even small dust particles, and especially rust flakes from the compressor tank, can block their ports and essentially disable them until disassembled and cleaned. A straight filter/regulator (not with a lubricator) is not expensive ($18-24), and it will save you much hassel. It also allows you to vary the air pressure you use without running back and forth to the compressor. With this set-up, crank the compressor's regulator up to the max for the most airflow out of your tank.

With your compressor stationary, you can leave the system pressurized all the time, but you must remember to drain the water that will condense and collect in your tank (usually once every 2 days depending on atmospheric humidity). McMaster-Carr sells a nifty Wilkerson auto-drain valve ($55) that replaces your tank's junk drain valve, and triggered by the compressor's cycling, opens and closes the bottom drain to keep the storage tank as dry as possible.

When you set up your distribution piping, plan on a drain valve at the bottom of each drop. I use 1/4" ball valves and they work just fine for both condensate in the line as well as any small rust flakes that may form and then break loose in the compressor's storage tank to move along with the air flow in the lines.

When piping your drops, the classic way is to put a "T" in the line pointing up, then use two 90* elbows to form a half-loop. The design is used to minimize any line condensation that might otherwise get pushed down and out through your tool; even a little water will wreck a spray finish, and rust will kill a die grinder's bearings and turbine in short order. The other way to pipe a drop is to come straight down from the high line to that drain valve, and then "T" off that drop line somewhere in the middle. That way the condensed moisture goes to the drain and the dry air gets pulled off to your outlet. This also eliminates the need to pitch your main line back towards your compressor to get the water to drain into the tank. I'm attaching a photo of one of my shop air stations. In it you'll see the drop going down the left side to the small drain, then the "T" and loop up and over to the filter/regulator plus the jumper hose from the regulator to the hose reel. Note that the filter also has a drain as well.

Do hope this helps

Mark Mandell
 

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Mark - Thanks for the info - It is pretty close to what I expected I would have to do. Would it hurt to run 3/4" copper pipe? I always seem to want to over build things it seems. Is "L" copper pipe the thicker walled pipe? Hopefully this summer I will get this put together. I realize that the compressor is not the best and biggest - but I use it mostly to clean out the shavings from small opening vessels and cleaning up the shavings/dust from my tools. I think it will work for now. The compressor does not even come on everytime I run the air.

Thanks everyone for the info. This is going to protect my hearing and my sanity.
Hugh
 
3/4" Pipe

Hugh,

"Couldn't hoit" as my grandfather used to say. Just remember that your air fittings (hoses, tools and such) are all configured for 1/4" NPT [national pipe thread] so you should plan on reducer fittings as part of your connections and joints.

Compressor doesn't have to be "The Best" [that's actually a pretty good one you have], just don't ask more of it than it's designed to give and it'll last you a good long time.

Copper pipe comes in 3 weights, "M", "L", and "K" referred to as "types." Type M was originally designed for hot water baseboard heating systems that operate under 35 PSI. Big-Box stores love to sell Type M to homeowner DIYers who don't know any better. Type L is best for general plumbing and higher operating pressures. Type K is heavier yet, and is used primarily for underground installations and in low pH water situations. Above those, of course, are the true "pipe" grades in copper, brass, and steel/iron that are not soldered but rather joined with threaded fittings for much higher pressures. You may have to go to a plumbing supply to get Type L. Some State codes, New Jersey is one, allow Type M to be used for residential plumbing. Residents are really pleased at the reduced cost (pennies less), until the thin stuff pin-holes and has to be ripped out and replaced. Use Type L for shop air for its increased durability and resistence to abrasion. Each length of pipe is printed along a line which includes its type designation so you can make sure that you're getting the weight you're paying for.

By the way, that filter regulator in the picture comes from Harbor Freight, and, priced at $40, is often on sale for $19. You can get a jumper hose made up for a few bucks at most any welding or industrial supply who may also have them in stock.

Mark
 
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Thanks for all the advise everyone!!!!!!!
I knew that I would get good info. I am going to start drawing up a plan and measuring things. Then the hunt for all the parts. Thanks for the help.
Hugh
 
About a year ago I was able to pick up a 60 gallon, 5 HP compressor which finally gave me the capability to run air tools (the air driven random orbit sander is a real air hog). Like everybody else I wanted several outlets around the shop for this new (to me) system. I chose to run 1" ID airhose across the shop ceiling more or less diagonally with for 4 outlets along the way. I installed an air/oil filter/sump at the outlet of the compressor and another at the outlet which is a potential spray paint outlet. All of the components were purchased at my local Ace Hardware. Before buying I comparison shopped Ace and HD. Ace won by about 2% and they have people who will actually talk to you knowledgeably. What a concept in this day and age. I didn't have to build soundproofing around the compressor. I simply put it in SWMBO's laundry room which is on the other side of a block wall from our shop. Yes. She's a turner too. Makes life HUGELY simpler.

Whit
 
Compressed Air System w/copper - Cold vs Warm rooms

Hi All,

Just found this forum today so this will be my first of many many questions. Hopefully I can help someone along the way too....

Instead of woodturning, my first question is regarding this thread about Air Compressor plumbing.

I have a Husky (Home Depot) 5hp 26 gal oil lube compressor rated for 100% duty cycle. I'm thinking about running an air system. My shop is in an area in an old barn but my compressor will be located in another part of the barn, approx 50-60 feet away. I have built a small room that I will be using for spray finishing. My shop (60 feet away) is insulated and well heated from an oil furnace. My spray room where the compressor will be, is insulated, and the rest of the barn is uninsulated/unheated.

My concern lies where the lines will go from warm-to-cold-to-warm areas. Will this cause any problems with the compressor in terms of condensation? Will the compressor be able to 'keep-up' with this much extra capacity in the lines?

Do I also need to be concerned with the length of the air lines? Could be up to 50-60 feet from the compressor. I'd also like to add a small line that goes outside, for outside spraying and inflating tires.

What else could I be missing? Where should I put drain valves and how many?

SO MANY QUESTIONS!!! I've tried to attach a small picture of the layout.

Thanks for any and all replies.

Rob
 

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Rob,

First, your compressor is NOT 5 hp; that is the "BS rating" they put on it when they determine how many watts it will take to burn up the motor (1 hp = 746 watts). In what I regard as consumer fraud, marketers (started by Sears BTW) list this useless information as "peak horsepower" to make people think they're buying more than they actually are. "FIVE HORSEPOWER" sounds like big-time power to those who don't understand the difference. Many manufacturers have now been forced to also list the real hp number as "run horsepower". Your 25 gal. Husky unit puts out 5.8 CFM at 90 PSI and runs on 115 volt, 15 amp circuit, so it might be 1.8 hp actually. If you'd like to know what you actually have, look at the amp-rating on the label of your machine's motor and apply the following formula: (Voltage) times (Amp-draw) times (Power-factor [.8 for 80% efficiency]) divided by 746. Example: 115v x 15amps x .8 ./. 746 = 1.85 hp.

BTW, most people would have trouble even lifting a real 5 hp electric motor.

Okay, "Rant Off."

At 5.8 cfm, your compressor will do just fine for inflations, blow-off air, nailers, a small die grinder, an impact wrench, and light (1/4 or 3/8") air-drive drills. You will have trouble with most sanders as they usually call for air volume (CFM-cubic feet per minute) well above what your unit will put out. If you're going to be spray finishing, you're about at the minimum point for CFM's required for a good HVLP conversion gun set-up, but you would do well to increase your storage capacity to smooth out "compressor pulse" in the airflow if you're spraying product while the compressor is actually running. There are two ways to do this. First, you can convert your piping system to storage by using larger diameter pipe (copper or steel only - see above thread). However, going from say 1/2" or 3/4" pipe to 1"or 1-1/4" pipe doesn't give you very much in the way of increased 'gallonage.' It will, however, increase your pipe and fitting cost substantially, and it's harder to solder properly for good joint seals. I find it much more cost efficient to install a supplementary tank in the system. They are easily available and a 20 gal tank rated at 125psi is not too pricey. Since you only need it for spray finishing, you can place the tank in your spray room (put the compressor outside the room for noise damping) and only pressurize the extra tank to 90psi (way more than enough for spraying) through a regulator when you are using the sprayer; the extra storage is not needed for either your shop or the garage. If, on the other hand, you want to make it integral for the whole system, you really should have a ASME rated tank that matches or exceeds your compressor's rating. That gets pricey, however, as a 20 gal tank that's ASME-rated at 140psi is likely to cost you about $250-300 which is almost what your compressor cost.

Based on your drawing, I'd suggest 2 distribution pipe sizes. From your compressor location on the shorter runs to the garage, the outside spud, and into the finish room, 1/2" type "L" copper should do fine (Don't forget your flexible jumper hose from the unit to the fixed piping). For the long run to the shop, you'll be happier with 3/4" type "L" copper, but you will have to be careful to pitch your piping so that the increased condensate you'll get in the larger diameter will drain properly. You won't enjoy the result if, when using your air, you wind up spraying oily water on whatever you're doing. The different area temperatures you mention will effect condensation in your lines, but the drains you install at the end of each run will handle that so long as you actually use them. Takes 2 seconds to open and close a ball valve to empty the collected water. Real easy.

Note on compressor oil. I strongly recommend that you use only 100% synthetic compressor oil, and change it once a year. You should be able to find it at Home Depot in the compressor section, and many compressor warrantees actually require it. The only down-side to it is that many filter/regulator units (you will need one in the spray room and the shop, optional but good in the garage), have polycarbonate collection bowls that will degrade from contact with any synthetic oil mist/condensate. You should therefore look for filter/regulator units with metal or glass bowls.

Hope this helps. If you have further questions, feel free to e-mail me or drop a PM through the board

Mark

PS: Since your compressor is on wheels, you need to do something to lock it in place. If you take the wheels off and mount it on a frame fixed to the floor, you won't have to worry about it being bumped or "walking" from vibration.

M
 
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Hi there Everyone. I just needed to tell someone - and you are it - since I got so much help from "The Forum". I finally got things going on the compressed air system. I used "L" copper pipe, but did not get quite as fancy as Mark did on his system with the filters, etc. I may add one later. But I got it all soldered up and so far no leaks. I have not put any cover over the compressor, but have it in another room where I can shut the door. So much quieter. Anyway, thanks for all the help. It only took me three trips to the hardware store to get all the different parts. Anyway - IT WORKS!.
Hugh
 
Congrats

Good News, Hugh!

Enjoy.

Remember to keep your system drained to minimize the water vapor in the airstream.

Mark
 
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