CNC details

[David D Olson]

I’ve a question for you. I happen to have a CNC with a lathe in addition to my VL 300. The photo is of the urn I did for my parents, with the engraving and carving done on the CNC.

I see some of fine work on this site with textures and embellishments of a variety of styles and wonder about using the CNC. But—

That seems to destroy the value of a hand turned piece.
What is your take?

 

[Brian Gustin]

Nothing wrong with using CNC - my only issue is/was with those who'd try to call CNC made items "woodturnings" but I see nothing wrong really with embellishing or augmenting turned pieces with CNC work. Your Urn looks really nice, and it's fairly obviously a segmented turned box/urn. Whether the lid embellishments were done by CNC or Hand carved or router (or Rose engine lathe, for that matter) they're still quite nice. Only thing that irks me (Gets my knickers in a twist) is when a piece of work is presented as woodturned, but done on a CNC (or incorporating very little, if any actual turned pieces) - They're art, sure... they look pretty , yes.... but to put them out there to compare to a piece turned on a lathe (by an actual person hand controlling the tools by their own skill, instead of by machinery) just rubs me the wrong way.

If you can do your embellishments or texturing of a turned piece with a CNC, Router, Laser, Rose Engine, Dremel, what have you, if it adds to the appeal of the piece (bearing in mind one person's appeal may be another person's idea of ugly!) then I see nothing wrong with it at all.

 

[David D Olson]

Nothing wrong with using CNC - my only issue is/was with those who'd try to call CNC made items "woodturnings" but I see nothing wrong really with embellishing or augmenting turned pieces with CNC work. Your Urn looks really nice, and it's fairly obviously a segmented turned box/urn. Whether the lid embellishments were done by CNC or Hand carved or router (or Rose engine lathe, for that matter) they're still quite nice. Only thing that irks me (Gets my knickers in a twist) is when a piece of work is presented as woodturned, but done on a CNC (or incorporating very little, if any actual turned pieces) - They're art, sure... they look pretty , yes.... but to put them out there to compare to a piece turned on a lathe (by an actual person hand controlling the tools by their own skill, instead of by machinery) just rubs me the wrong way.

If you can do your embellishments or texturing of a turned piece with a CNC, Router, Laser, Rose Engine, Dremel, what have you, if it adds to the appeal of the piece (bearing in mind one person's appeal may be another person's idea of ugly!) then I see nothing wrong with it at all.

My experience with the CNC is there are real restrictions. And, with a little practice, one could probably hand carve, engrave, texture, faster than programming a CNC to do it. Now, if you had hundreds to do, that’s another story.

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

My experience with the CNC is there are real restrictions. And, with a little practice, one could probably hand carve, engrave, texture, faster than programming a CNC to do it. Now, if you had hundreds to do, that’s another story.

I would guess that that is because the CNC's you are familiar with really aren't designed for embellishing turned pieces. In making the LatheEngraver, my goal was to convert the lathe itself into the CNC machine and removing those restrictions. It has been complicated (mostly from the software side), but it has developed far enough that I would say it is significantly faster to "program" (create a design in CAM software) than it would ever be to do by hand. @Jeff Struewing has been helping me with project, and he can make new designs for the lanterns he makes in minutes.

 

[David D Olson]

I would guess that that is because the CNC's you are familiar with really aren't designed for embellishing turned pieces. In making the LatheEngraver, my goal was to convert the lathe itself into the CNC machine and removing those restrictions. It has been complicated (mostly from the software side), but it has developed far enough that I would say it is significantly faster to "program" (create a design in CAM software) than it would ever be to do by hand. @Jeff Struewing has been helping me with project, and he can make new designs for the lanterns he makes in minutes.

Yes, the problem with my CNC program is that you are restricted to wrapping around a cylindrical shape, and at least I am not aware that it is possible to do what you are doing.

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

the other thing that has been an important motivation for me personally is the difficulty I have with hand-carving. @Rusty Nesmith has me beat, because I only have C5-C7 fused in my neck, but the motions associated with hand-carving really aggravates the already damaged nerves, though it was worse before the fusion. I don't get any of that same strain designing something on the computer.

 

[David D Olson]

I totally get that. And that is a skill too.

 

[hockenbery]

That seems to destroy the value of a hand turned piece.

Do you mean value of the piece or value of the making.

Regarding the piece - it is what it is - maker knows the process used to make it.
Pieces stand on their own.

The making - thats a decision for the maker.

I enjoy locking in the bevel and shooting streams of shavings off the tool. I wouldn’t get that feeling watching a machine work.

There is also skill and enjoyment to be had in making a CNC do something no one else has done.

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

I look at the urn and I can't be 100% sure whether it was hand turned or CNC'd. But I look at the engraved name and it seems obvious it was not done by hand carving. It's not a font style a typical carver would use. And it's too perfect.

If you wanted to make the name look hand carved a stick font might be a better choice. You could hand draw the name, load that image into your CAM software to cut and make it look hand carved.

 

[Gregory Hickman]

As someone that designed injection molding tooling and then actual products I'll offer a few points to consider.

1. CNC is nothing more than cutter control. Yes it is automated, but there is an art to cutter selection, cut parameters and setup (the last being the easiest to learn).

2. Designing the shape of objects gets easier with time. I taught CAD design to mechanical engineering students in college. Given a little time any shape that can be imagined can be designed in a computer. It's a thought process in how to get the art in your head into the computer. Much like doing the same at the lathe by hand. In fact that is one method of modeling i would use to teach a turner to build their models at first. Take block A, derive shape B to spin and cut out next shape.

3. With practice modeling can be quicker than you think. The biggest trick to it all, for embellishments, will be to get your hand turned design into the computer. If you have digitizing equipment this because slightly more trivial.

4. By introducing imperfections into a CAD model, it could be made to be indistinguishable from hand work.

With all that said. The tools you use to create your art doesn't dictate if it's art or not. I struggled with this a lot in my mind. When someone would say what you've done is art I would say how it's all mathematics, it's defining shapes for a purpose, a function, with what it looks like last. But what is a bowl, a box, anything that is turned (for the most part) no different than objects i designed (although a lot simpler in geometry).

So feel free to say you have CNC Embellished hand turned pieces. Use your process as part of your story. The art is getting what you intended to emerge from raw materials nature had given us.

Gregory

Ps. You made a beautiful urn for your parents.