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club video system

J

j.keller

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Our club is looking for a video system for our turning demo's at meetings. Does anyone have a suggestion regarding camera, audio, and TV system that works for their club meetings?
We would appreciate any assistance or suggestions as we would like this to be a one time, first time, expenditure.
Thanks in advance,
Jerry Keller, Southern Utah Woodturners Club
 
Jerry,
My one suggestion is to go the "computer projector/projection screen" route as opposed to using a TV monitor. It's a bigger image and perhaps more flexible. With the push of a button the image can go from a video camera feed to a laptop (PowerPoint, slide show, video clips, DVDs). Computer projector costs have come down recently making them much more affordable.
 
Malcolm Tibbetts said:
Jerry,
My one suggestion is to go the "computer projector/projection screen" route as opposed to using a TV monitor. It's a bigger image and perhaps more flexible. With the push of a button the image can go from a video camera feed to a laptop (PowerPoint, slide show, video clips, DVDs). Computer projector costs have come down recently making them much more affordable.
Click to expand...

My club went the route of using a projector to get a larger image. I would have preferred to get a large LCD flat screen TV which would have cost less even if we had gone as large as 52 inches. The main concern with a large flat screen TV is storage and transportation. Despite that, my rationale was that the image would be much brighter with an LCD TV than a projection system. As I predicted, the projected image is dim and washed out with a projection system for two reasons:

  1. The club bought a huge screen and then enlarged the image to about 60 inches wide. I think that the members involved in selecting a system didn't fully appreciate the fact that they should have limited the enlargement to about 36 inches wide with a projection system in order to maintain adequate brightness and contrast. The image unit area brightness at 60 inches is only 36% of that with the smaller 36 inch projection.
  2. The bigger problem is lighting. We are not able to turn off the room lights over the location of the screen without turning off essentially all of the room lights. Having a bunch of fluorescent lights in front of the screen really washes out the contrast. In addition, our club cheaped out on lighting for the demonstrator and put a four foot fluorescent shop light about two feet from the demonstrator's face. This means that the demonstrator's face is often blown out while anything more than about five feet away is almost completely dark.
Much of the problems with a projection system could be minimized with proper lighting, both in the room and for the demonstrator. If your club, like mine has no control over the facility's lighting arrangement or a good workaround, then it might be best to opt for a large flat screen TV instead. Lighting is not a trivial matter even though that is the way that it is normally handled.

In these days of digital imaging, a computer can still be part of the video system so that things such as photo images and PowerPoint presentations can be done whether using a projector or a TV.
 
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TV and Camera is the Way to Go!

Our club bought a 52" LCD TV and an HD camera. One can connect a laptop to the TV for powerpoints quite easily when needed. We have our TV mounted on the wall and leave all of the lights on in the room. With nothing but overhead flourescents, the HD camera can pick up the wispiest of shavings and they look beautiful on the monitor. In fact Jimmy Clewes commented that he couldn't BS us about the tool finish he was getting because the picture was SO good! There is no longer a bad seat in the house with this set-up.
 
John,
About how much did the tv and camera cost? Did your club purchase them new? This is a timely thread as our club was just talking about this.
Thanks.
Hugh
 
Our club has( 2) 47 inch LCD TVs and has 4 cameras and the director can select the best image to display on the TVs, he has a monitor that has all 4 images for him to select from. We have PIP wireless security box that controls remotely for the picture. Also we have separate wireless mike and a class room style PA system amd every thing is recored on a DVD.
I looked and can not find a picture, continue tring to find a photo.

This has been a work in progress for severl years

The club is the Hunt County Woodturners, web site is www,huntcountywoodturners.org

Dan
 
Jerry,

Our club is in the same boat as Bill Boehme's club. We have a washed out screen and no way to turn off the fluorescent lights without causing a blackout in most of the store (Woodcraft). When I originally set up the video 10 years ago, we had a 27" regular TV and a Sony video camera. That combo created a great image with no lighting issues. With the projector and our 10 year old camera, the image quality has also suffered.
 
Dan Henry, Any chance you can elaborate on your clubs setup. I would really appreciate it if you could fill us in on what kind of cameras, what sort of switching hardware, if it is fed through a computer or not, fed straight to a dvd recorder, how you handle audio, and anything else that might be of help in getting set up. Thanks.
 
bob elliott said:
Jerry,

Our club is in the same boat as Bill Boehme's club. We have a washed out screen and no way to turn off the fluorescent lights without causing a blackout in most of the store (Woodcraft). When I originally set up the video 10 years ago, we had a 27" regular TV and a Sony video camera. That combo created a great image with no lighting issues. With the projector and our 10 year old camera, the image quality has also suffered.
Click to expand...

I feel your pain. It seems that most people do not realize that it is not possible for an LCD projector and screen to have contrast that is even remotely close to what a TV set can provide (CRT, plasma, or LCD). To get even barely acceptable quality video, the room would need to be very dark with no light hitting the screen other than from the projector. I thought that our old system with two old CRT TV sets on tall roll around equipment racks seemed to be quite satisfactory. Our real need back then was better video cameras and a better wireless mike. Even now the mike is a problem -- it seems that many demonstrators don't know how to use a wireless mike and either attach it too far from their mouth or are constantly getting it tangled up.
 
Our club has 2 monitors. One is the older large TV and the other is a wall mounted flat screen. The flat screen is great. Just as important if not more so is the main camera and operator. You need a camera that will zoom in close and an operator that will get in to get the shot.
As near as I can tell as a frequent demonstrator both systems work. The screens do need some way to lower the house lights. By adding a lighting system to light the demonstrator it makes house lights less necessary. The screens obviously aren't as bright or clear but the image is so much larger that the crowd may be able to better see the cut.
The lights that light the demonstrator need to be out of the cameras angle of view and also fairly evenly lit. If one light is much closer than another one the one area will be brighter. The camera can't compensate and washes out part of the picture. Of course if the camera "sees" one light it compensates and the rest of the image is too dark.
I just demonstrated for the Palmetto woodturners and they had a good system with an even better operator. I think his name was Gary but forgive me if I got that wrong. They had a screen to the left of the crowd and smaller TV to the right. The camera operator could see both and even better, the demonstrator could see the smaller one. This made it easier for me to position tools for the crowd to see. Quite often you are holding a tool up and the operator is trying his best to find it and get it in focus. Being able to see the monitor made it faster because it's much easier for me to move the tool and reposition it so they can see the grind. He was also really great at zooming in really close on the cut so the crowd could see exactly what you are doing. They had lights on the demonstrator and afterword we talked about changing lights to better illuminate the demonstrator without the light hitting the screen.
At our local club we have 2 moderate sized flat screens with one mini cam and one roving camcorder. The mini cam is located on a boom arm that sits on a rolling 5 gal bucket. It is mounted on an adjustable tent pole so it can easily be raised up and down. This one looks more or less straight down. Anyone in the front row is free to move this camera as needed so they and crowd can see the cut better. This is one of the better systems I've seen although it does require a minor adjustment to get it in just the right position from time to time.
 
TVs and storage

To all who have posted about using 47" or 50" LCDs (or plasma or 27" CRT, etc.) TVs, do you have to store them when your club is not meeting?

IF yes, how and where relative to your meeting space?

Thanks,
Ann
 
Costs & Storage

Our club spent about $2700 for the TV, camera, cabling and mounting bracket. We purchased everything new, but at end of season prices. TV $1500, camera $900, etc. The Hi-Def video camera was a great decision and purchased at the behest of our camera operator. He does a great job of getting in close!

For storage, we are fortunate to have the use of the classroom at our local Woodcraft for our monthly meetings, so the TV is mounted on the wall. This system replaced our camera/projector/screen set-up which was so cumbersome and ineffective that it rarely got used. We also are recording and then burning all of the raw video to DVD and placing them in our club library for check-out. Maybe someday we will get to editing. We would be interested in any feedback on equipment and best practices for such.

John
 
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