Ci1 Rougher

[Dennis Derringer]

I just got this in today and tried it out on a piece of Pecan that I acquired (8' section of a 20" trunk); This was my first attempt at a large piece. The chiesel did well on the outside as I took my time to cut away until the piece was true. I moved my rest to the front and started removing the interior and everything was going well, for a while. I was fairly conservative with my cuts, but the blade gouged some of the longer grains and I wound up bending the metal shaft.

Am I using the wrong technique in roughing the interior of the bowl?

 

[Steve Worcester]

If you bent the shaft it was from pushing too hard and or it caught. The tool cuts well, but like any other, it only cuts so fast.

 

[odie]

Wow......that had to have left a mark on your tool rest.

Glad you are ok.

I don't have an easyrougher, but it's obviously a tool that is used with scraper techniques.......or, at least, presented to the wood straight on, like a scraper. I don't even remember when I last used a scraper on the interior of a bowl which was presented flat to the tool rest......simply because gouges are so much superior in results......and MUCH MUCH safer, as scrapers are really prone to catches in the interior of bowls. The exception would be the Hunter carbide tool, or a scraper used in the shearing technique, but 95 percent of all interior work on bowls is done with a gouge.

Have you not yet purchased a chuck? I see you are attempting to hollow the bowl's interior by presenting your tool from the headstock side. Pretty difficult to get in there from that direction, and a chuck will easily allow you to reverse it to gain easier access to the interior. The way you are doing it would certainly limit your tool presentation options.

ooc

 

[Dennis Derringer]

Steve, yes - it got caught. I was trying to take it as easy as possible.

Odie, I have the baracuda chuck and was getting to the point of thinking I should remount the piece with the bowl openig out. Live and learn.... I'm still quite new at this and learning from my mistakes and excellent guidance from members of this forum.

 

[odie]

Steve, yes - it got caught. I was trying to take it as easy as possible.

Odie, I have the baracuda chuck and was getting to the point of thinking I should remount the piece with the bowl openig out. Live and learn.... I'm still quite new at this and learning from my mistakes and excellent guidance from members of this forum.

Dennis.......

Can I assume you were doing it this way to temporarily maintain two points of contact between the wood and lathe? After shaping the exterior and tenon, most of us reverse mount into a chuck and rely on the chucks jaws for holding power. Until you dig a little deeper into the interior of your bowl, you still have the option of using a revolving center.......that is, if you feel safer to maintain the two points of contact. If so, once you feel a little more confident in your techniques, you probably won't bother with the two point hold......and simply rely on your chuck's ability to hold the wood entirely.

After taking a second look at your Easyrougher photograph, it looks like the tool shaft bent at about 4", or so from the cutting edge. This is probably an indicator of how far your tool was extending over the tool rest.......and, this is a long ways to be extending it. This could be the reason you had such a major catch. If the tool was only extended an inch or two over the tool rest, you probably would have had a much less exciting catch!

Anyway, maybe you should consider doing all of your interior bowl work from the tailstock side.......and, to eliminate the need for long tool overhang from the tool rest, you may want to consider using a curved tool rest, instead of that straight one. (Not to say the straight tool rest won't do the job, but it will have to be repositioned more frequently to avoid having the need for extending the tool a long distance over the tool rest.)

ooc

 

[robo hippy]

My first thought when I saw where it was bent was that you were hanging too far out off the tool rest. I guess it is likely that you caught by the side of the bowl or near the center where the tip and side of the cutter may have gotten into the wood all at once. This can be a problem with transition areas, and you get over powered. With a scraper, on the inside of the bowl, keep it slightly above center, and always angled down. You may be able to straighten that out with a little persuasion, like a 6 lb hammer.

robo hippy

 

[John Fabre]

Dennis, I was going to buy that same roughing gouge until I found out it was made from stainless steel. I wonder if the stainless steel had anything to do with it bending, call Easy Wood.

 

[Jim Keenan]

Dennis, There are eleven AAW chapters in SC. The best advice I have for to is to contact the nearest one and become a member. The learning curve will be drastically shortened and you will meet a ton of good people.

 

[Chuck Beland]

Call Craig I'm sure when you explain to him how it happened send him the bent one & I'm willing to bet he sends you a new one.

 

[MichaelMouse]

Too far over the rest, and in an absolutely awkward position for the body and tool control, I'm sure. Then too big a bite if moving directly in, or working too low, resulting in an uphill catch scraping inside. Is that what I see at ~ 4:00?

Get a chuck and save your back. You could also do better by slanting the toolrest in to get closer to the working face.

 

[Matt Lewis]

Reply to Easy Wood Tool Use

Dennis,

Since you haven't mentioned being hurt we have to assume you are okay - that is very good news!

Based on your words and picture, I see this situation being a result of bad technique with an incorrect tool (something I am certain we have all done at some point). I am not sure I understand at all why you'd feel it necessary to begin hollowing from the headstock side. At most, you should only expect to true what is to be the top of the bowl face before flipping the blank for hollowing (it is my understanding, not being a user of the Easy Wood Tools, that you would accomplish this by presenting the Ci1 at a 90 degree angle to the blank. Perhaps reviewing Craig Jackson's videos and/or contacting him would be useful).

You don't necessarily need a chuck to remount, but should do the hollowing from the tailstock side. It seems to me that the corner of the square nose likley dug into the wood because of the oblique angle you would have to present the tool at in this set up. In my estimation, this really has nothing to do with the Ci1, but more to do with the nose type, presentation angle and distance over the rest. The same would probably have happened with a square-end scraper.

Thanks for sharing and accepting comments as this is a valuable lesson and reminder for all of us woodturners!

Best regards,

Matt

 

[Dennis Derringer]

Odie: As always, you hit the nail right on the head. I'm working very hard at trying to be like the "rest of us" and I'm definitely going to look into a curved tool rest

robo hippy: Thank you for the comments and advice!

captjim: I'm trying my best to get to one of those chapters. Most are over 70 miles from where I live and I haven't had much time to see what's available locally. As I told Odie, when I can get to a point of being like "the rest of us" in my wood turning, then I may try to get a local chapter started.

Chuck Beland: Thanks for the suggestion. It never hurts to ask.

Michale Mouse: Yes, that was the nasty catch. You'd think after the 2nd time I would've stopped and consider changing to the chuck, but no... I had to experience it a 3rd time

Thank's to everyone for taking the time to provide comments and suggestions.

Dennis

 

[Jarred Hoffpauir]

I wonder if that is the best tool for the job when hollowing on the inside of something. Does yours have the square tip? Using that kind of a cutting tip straight in on the inside or outside for that mater is a very aggressive cut in my limited experience.

I have been using an Eliminator carbide holllowing tool and it seems like it would cut in a similar way except that it has a rounded head which would lend its self to hollowing a little bit better. One thing I found with my Eliminator is that it should be turned on its side instead of using it straight on, the angle of the blade is not so aggressively pointed into the work.

Hope that is helpful in some way.

 

[MichaelMouse]

I wonder if that is the best tool for the job when hollowing on the inside of something. Does yours have the square tip? Using that kind of a cutting tip straight in on the inside or outside for that mater is a very aggressive cut in my limited experience.

I have been using an Eliminator carbide holllowing tool and it seems like it would cut in a similar way except that it has a rounded head which would lend its self to hollowing a little bit better. One thing I found with my Eliminator is that it should be turned on its side instead of using it straight on, the angle of the blade is not so aggressively pointed into the work.

A straight cutter can be "curved" by swinging around the toolrest fulcrum as are other tools. Smart money starts a stabilizing corner in wood before going farther. It is, as are most scrapers, extremely vulnerable to changes in density (knots) and direction (cutting up hill). Using a rounded cutter and swinging it as a gouge is swung is one way to minimize the problems of scrapers.

Yet another and better, in my opinion, solution is to used a gouge. Watch the knot whack the gouge here. http://s108.photobucket.com/albums/n28/MichaelMouse/?action=view&current=HollowTwo001.mp4 The plunge is made on a very narrow area, rolling to heavy stock removal as the tool becomes guided and supported by the work.

 

[hockenbery]

The easy rougher is good at what it does.

If you plan on turning lots of bowls, you will never regret investing the time in learning how to use a bowl gouge.

With any tool never let the wood drive down onto the tool. if it can it will.
With a scraping tool don't let the bevel contact the wood surface.
if you had the handle down and hit the center post you are lucky to have just bent the shaft.

You have a nice lathe. Keep in mind your lathe is la lot stronger than you are.

Have fun work safely.
Al

 

[Dennis Derringer]

Matt, no, I did not get hurt and don't plan on doing much more with the Ci1 tool until I've looked at training videos (over and over). I realize (now) that this tool is meant to be used straight on.

Al, that was the largest bowl I've tried and I think I'll scale down a bit and work my way up.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Dennis Derringer]

Easy Wood Tools Superior Customer Service

I sent an email to EWT and explained what happened (sent the picture) and asked what could be done to fix the tool. Much to my suprise I received an email from Craig Jackson early the next morning and he provided his cell phone number for me to call.

After about a five minute conversation, the next step was for me to return the tool (minus the blade) and they would see if it could be straightened and still meet their quality standards; They will use it on their lathe to check it out.

This kind of customer service is rare these days. EWT has gained a loyal customer and I look forward to learning how to use their tools (the proper way).

Dennis

 

[Chuck Beland]

Dennis,
I told you Craig will make it right. He along with Doug are my only "go to guys" for any turning tools. They're the only ones I own now.

 

[MichaelMouse]

I wonder if the stress in the bend and the attempt to straighten wouldn't louse up the structure of the metal so bad as to permanently weaken it. Purpose of forging, rolling, tempering etc. is to order the interior structure. New steel, lesson learned would be my solution. Another lesson learned is that if you have the tool firmly on the rest, it's not going mash the cast iron.

 

[Dennis Derringer]

Chuck / Michael,

I heard from Easy Wood Tools and Craig said the tool was beyond repairing for safe use. They graciously offered me one of their "Quality Control" tools at a discounted price that has some engraving that's a little off center; I'll be taking them up on the offer.

To add insult the injury the bowl I was working on developed some bad cracks and so it wound up in the burn pile

Dennis