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Chuck jaw gard

Paul Gilbert

Paul Gilbert

Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
83
Likes
18
Location
Allen, TX
Yesterday I was turning a pencil box (form American Woodturner a year or so ago). This is essentially a 2" hollow spindle shaped like a pencil. I had the eraser end chucked up in a Strong Hold with pin jaws and the pointy end in a live center. I was cutting the point with my big Lacer skew when I got a run back. This forced my left elbow into the chuck which was running at over 2K. My sleeve - properly buttoned and not floppy - was grabbed by the jaws extending from the chuck resulting in a trip to the ER. My ego was bused along with the underside of my left arm where the sleeve formed a noose of my sleeve. The divot dug by the jaws on the back side of my elbow required 10 stitches.

My question is: Do the extended jaws of a scroll chuck present a serious enough hazard that we should fabricate a sort of soft sleeve around them. In my case just a wrap or two of painters tape would have saved a very sore arm.

I, my ego, and arm will all recover. This served as a vivid safety lesson to my Grand Niece and Grandson who were deeply involved in this project and were watching intently at the time of the catch. I'll never have to convince them that power tools can be dangerous. However, this is not approved educational protocol.
 
I've seen some colored wraps that go around chucks online somewhere, I just can't remember what they were actually called A couple wraps of painter's tape is probably the cheapest solution if you want that.
 
I was purposely doing something really close to my chuck jaws and decided they needed protection. I cut a piece of bicycle tube to length and cut a horizontal slit near each end. Then inserted a piece of a velcro strap in each slot. This fastens it to the chuck.
 
Paul, thank you for sharing your story. I'm sorry to hear about the injury. A similar sleeve grab event happened to my wife who was wearing close fitting knit sleeves at the time. It was an ordinary chuck and she got away with a deep scratch.

The AAW says not to wear loose sleeves, but I find this vague and not particularly helpful advice, and maybe even foolish.

I seldom, if ever, tell other turners what to do or how to work, but we do not wear long sleeves of any kind when turning. At all, period.

If I am not wearing short sleeves I roll up my sleeves to at least the elbow so they won't roll back down. My basement workshop ranges from cold to cool all year long, so I have an old down vest and a fleece vest I can wear under my short sleeve turning smock as needed.

Reading your story it sounds like it was fabric at the elbow that caught, so maybe the only sleeves that are safe are the ones left in the closet?


I frequently use a screw chuck and if I will need to turn very close to the chuck I take a small repurposed pie/tart tin, poke a hole for the screw and place this over the chuck before mounting the block. Not an impenetrable barrier, but a good early warning device. But first I will try to avoid having to bring a tool anywhere near the spinning jaws.
 
When I wear a turning smock while turning It has elastic cuffs that mold around the wrist so there is no loose fabric to catch on rotating objects. Half of the time I usually wear a t-shirt with no pockets and wear the shirt tail over my pants to prevent wood chips and wood dust from collecting in my pants, if I need to go in the house I usually just take off the t-shirt and throw it in the laundry pile and put on a clean one.
 
It was the fabric at the elbow that caught. The cuffs were properly buttoned. The elastic wrist band around the chuck sound like a good idea. I'll get one tomorrow. I also resolve to only wear short sleeves at the lathe.
 
The safety hazard that's frequently recommended on this forum is removing wheel guards on bench grinders to accommodate CBN wheels. That's complete idiocy IMO. It'd result in a significant fine by safety inspectors in an industrial setting.
 
After taking one for the team it is highly unlikely you will ever do that again, keeping body parts and clothing clear of rotating machinery is the first rule to obey when working around lathes and mills etc. Positioning the tool and the body parts to avoid this type of incident is the easiest method to avoid having that type of accident. If you feel nervous or uneasy with a method being used around rotating equipment it is time to step back and consider another method. The only time I wear long sleeves is when the wood or materials might be hazardous to the skin. There are several videos out on the web that show machine operators catching clothing on rotating equipment which pull them into the rotating equipment, if you can avoid long sleeves you remove the risk from the equation, if you wear long sleeves you must take extra measures to avoid the potential risk. Another option being discussed on one of the other threads is wearing the disposable medical garments that are paper thin and tear easily, this would protect your skin and the fabric would not be strong enough to wrap up on the rotating equipment and pull your body in.
 
Paul thanks for sharing your story.
While we all try to avoid contact with anything spinning it does happen. It only takes an instant for a low probability event to occur that has long lasting effects,

chuck jaws or the corner edge of a blank will cut bare skin or give a bruise but is usually just a band aide injury.
I have have brushed a bare wrist or hand close enough to the chuck to feel a sensation maybe a hundred times with no ill consequences.

When a spinning corner catches a watch, ring, etc. it won’t let go so quickly.
I recommend no jewelry or clothing below the elbow.
Long hair needs to be confined too.

The sharp edge of a bowl rim will slice deeply. I teach students to ease the sharp edge of the rim so it won’t cut.
 
Hey Paul, sorry to hear about that. Happily it was just stitches.

It doesn't sound like loose clothing was the issue, rather, fast turning, rough edges and getting too close.
Sure you can file off the edges - and I can't see a downside. You just get bruises then.

As an easier solution, if working that closely to the chuck, I'd be tempted to wrap something over top - like duct tape.
OK - that slows things down (between pieces), but so does a trip to the ER.

BTW - as NOT wearing loose clothing this reminder:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35MSmwlcth4

(fortunately, he was ok too)
 
Thanks for sharing your experience Paul. I would have assumed you'd be safe under those circumstances and now I won't have to learn the hard way.

If the athletic sweat bands you're contemplating don't work out, there is a stretchy crepe tape that sticks to itself that might work, and was mentioned above. The human version is Coban found in the first aid section at the drug store, and comes 1", 2", and 3". The veterinary version has several brand names but is generically referred to as "Vet wrap". It comes from home/ranch supply places like Murdoch's out here and maybe Tractor Supply or similar back east, and costs about 1/2 the price of the Coban. Usually it comes in 3-4" width, though it is made in 2-6" widths. It can be cut to narrower width but it's a pain.
 
The lucky ones grew up in a home where they had someone teach them how to use tools at a young age and took the time to stress the safety measures needed to avoid the dangers when working around power equipment. Too many children these days have very little or no exposure at all in working with hand tools or power tools, the day they get a job working in a shop or factory is a scary thought. The corporation I work for has a minimum of (3) days orientation and safety training with additional video training and hands on training for operating any type of powered equipment.
 
Paul Gilbert said:
Yesterday I was turning a pencil box (form American Woodturner a year or so ago). This is essentially a 2" hollow spindle shaped like a pencil. I had the eraser end chucked up in a Strong Hold with pin jaws and the pointy end in a live center. I was cutting the point with my big Lacer skew when I got a run back. This forced my left elbow into the chuck which was running at over 2K. My sleeve - properly buttoned and not floppy - was grabbed by the jaws extending from the chuck resulting in a trip to the ER. My ego was bused along with the underside of my left arm where the sleeve formed a noose of my sleeve. The divot dug by the jaws on the back side of my elbow required 10 stitches.

My question is: Do the extended jaws of a scroll chuck present a serious enough hazard that we should fabricate a sort of soft sleeve around them. In my case just a wrap or two of painters tape would have saved a very sore arm.

I, my ego, and arm will all recover. This served as a vivid safety lesson to my Grand Niece and Grandson who were deeply involved in this project and were watching intently at the time of the catch. I'll never have to convince them that power tools can be dangerous. However, this is not approved educational protocol.
Click to expand...

I am very sorry to hear about your injury, but thanks for posting about it. Ten stitches is quite serious

One of the cardinal rules in industry is that machine operators (or anyone inside the painted yellow line) do not wear long sleeves around rotating machinery ... buttoned or unbuttoned ... machines don't have a moral compass and if it is able to grab even the tiniest bit of fabric it will pull a person into the spindle in the blink of an eye. An even more serious concern is long hair that could very easily get caught. It's been fifteen years since I retired and probably have gotten a little lax about some safety matters so I appreciate this reminder.

It's hard to say what is the best thing to do to make working in close proximity to a rotating spindle safer. Painters tape probably would have reduced the severity of your injury if you actually came in contact with the spinning jaws. But, I would also be concerned that it might give a false sense of security and lead to somebody becoming careless. One practice that I haven't seen mentioned in a very long time is rounding the sharp outside corners of jaws with a radius of about ¼" using a file. A rounded over edge is less likely to grab and if your body comes in contact with the spinning rounded over jaws there probably would be bruising, but the likelihood of cuts is much less.

When I was still very much a beginning turner I had a rookie accident in which my right hand got caught while sanding a platter that had a bark inclusion that went from rim to near the center. Before I knew what happened my right hand was violently grabbed and thrown back at me. At first I thought that everything was OK, but then I noticed the middle finger was pointed 90° backwards. There was no pain initially, but I stood there looking at my hand and thinking something isn't right. Fortunately the finger was only dislocated and while there was a lot of trauma none of the ligaments were torn. The real pain started when the ER doctor reset the finger. It took about a year to regain full use of my hand, but my respect for what a lathe can do went way up.
 
Paul, glad your injury wasn't worse and you have a speedy recovery. For me, I can see putting tape or a wrist band over the jaw slides getting old fast. I do generally try to keep the slides within the chuck body, but sometimes they might be extended when turning a twice turned bowl initially to allow cleanup. All of my Axminister slides have a radius and the only other chuck I have is a HTC 125. I will remove the slides from the HTC before the next use and put a radius (more than filing) on those jaw slides similar to my other chucks. I see no reason for the slides to have sharp corners functionally.
 
Paul Gilbert said:
My question is: Do the extended jaws of a scroll chuck present a serious enough hazard that we should fabricate a sort of soft sleeve around them. In my case just a wrap or two of painters tape would have saved a very sore arm.
Click to expand...
Not the perfect solution, but you can devise an inexpensive "warning system" as well. Take a single wrap of tape (duct tape is durable and sticky but any tape should work) around the jaws and stick the tape ends to each other. A few inches will work but 4"-6" will give more warning. It might add a little "wind noise" but if you get close or even touch the tape with your body parts you will be "warned" and unharmed. You could also wrap tape around the jaws for additional insurance prior to wrapping the warning tape.
 
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