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Chinese ss tools

W

Wayne Spence

Joined
Jun 13, 2009
Messages
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Location
Denver, Colorado
Woodcraft sells a line of Chinese hss woodturning tools, the ones with the red handles called Wood River, the house brand. I can not find anyone locally who has purchased and used them. If you have please give a brief evaluation of them. I know that Lee Valley and Highland Hardware offer some China made tools, both about the same price and about the same price as those sold by Woodcraft. Not expecting English or American quality but are they worth it, do they hold a decent edge.
 
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I think you mean "hss" rather than "ss", right? "ss" denotes Stainless Steel which is usually too soft to hold an edge for turning. The Woodcraft stuff is "plain old" hss which would be hardened to R 63 or so. Depending on how you sharpen them, they should be okay, especially for domestic woods.
 
I have some of the Woodcraft "Wood River" bowl gouges and scrapers, but haven't purchased any for at least a year, or more.

The bowl gouges have more of a V shaped flute than the English Sorby and Taylor brands. It's rounded at the intersection of the two sides of the V, but I prefer the Taylors and Sorbys that have a more U shape flute to them.

Since my WR gouges are at least a year, or more old, I can't say if the flute is the same now as it was then. Anyway, I've found some grinds that are usable with the V shaped flute, so eventually they'll be used up......but my preference is the U shape.

I have a half dozen Wood River 1/2" wide scrapers that I grind to specialized shapes for occasional use. Without going out to the shop right this minute and measuring, I'd guess the HSS is probably 3/16" thick, and 1/2" wide.

For my purposes, these WR scrapers seem to work just fine. They seem to hold an edge as long as the Sorbys and Taylors, and if there is any difference in hardness, it isn't by much. Hard to tell for sure, since all scrapers seem to dull the burr rather quickly anyway. I tend to use the Sorbys and Taylors when I'm fine tuning a wide surface finish in preparation for sanding, but this isn't to say the WR isn't capable of doing just as good a job.......

ooc
 
If you're just starting out turning, you'll need to learn how to sharpen your own turning tools. In learning how to sharpen, you'll go through a lot of steel in the process. Buying Woodriver brand tools will make that a bit less painful in the wallet (because they are relatively inexpensive) and you will find it necessary to sharpen often, leading to learning how to sharpen your tools.

Why? I teach woodturning at a Woodcraft store, and of all the tools that students purchase for the classes, I end up sharpening Woodriver tools far more often than any other brand that Woodcraft sells. Just my experience. So as a newbie, in turning and sharpening, it's not a bad purchase for a couple of reasons.
 
Odie-Thanks for your reply. Just the sort of information I was looking for. I did not mention it for fear of skewing the replies but I bought a Chinese made parting tool from Woodcraft about 5 years ago and it did not keep an edge. They were not into the Wood River moniker at that time so the manufacturer may have been different. Woodcraft told me they were working on more consistency . About the late sixties I bought two Marples gouges from Woodcraft. Absolutely superb high carbon steel , spindle gouges that I still have. Once again thanks, this forum is so good at sharing information.
 
I have the 1/2" and 3/8 inch WR bowl gouges and really do not like their flute design. Their V flutes just tend to clog more than some other designs. I have a Thompson V bowl gouge and it does not clog the same. I have a 1" WR Spindle Roughing gouge and it is ok. However, I find myself reaching for a 1" red handled Harbor Freight SRG most of the time and I am not sure why. I think it is because the handle is shorter so it is a little easier to maneuver.
 
Wayne Spence said:
Odie-Thanks for your reply. Just the sort of information I was looking for. I did not mention it for fear of skewing the replies but I bought a Chinese made parting tool from Woodcraft about 5 years ago and it did not keep an edge. They were not into the Wood River moniker at that time so the manufacturer may have been different. Woodcraft told me they were working on more consistency . About the late sixties I bought two Marples gouges from Woodcraft. Absolutely superb high carbon steel , spindle gouges that I still have. Once again thanks, this forum is so good at sharing information.
Click to expand...

You bet, Wayne......

Just out of curiosity, is the older Woodcraft parting tool you have marked "Pinnacle"?

I was out in the shop since my last comment, and noticed a couple of the Woodcraft gouges are marked "Pinnacle", but they are the same V shaped flute, and the handle looks the same as the WR, just marked differently. I'll bet those are from the same manufacturer, but not absolutely sure about that. About the scrapers?.....that's anyone's guess.

All of these cut-rate manufacturers will be buying their bulk HSS on the market (I think), so some tools from the same manufacturer, but produced at different times, might have different steel in them. This may account for why Donna seems to feel the WR tools don't hold an edge as well as other tools.......so, buy at your own risk! If her experience with the WR tools is current, then the steel in these tools may not be as good as the steel of a few years ago......without buying any for a test, it's pure guesswork and gamble!

As I mentioned, my WR scrapers seem to have similar performance qualities as my Sorbys and Taylors. The V flute bowl gouges aren't getting the amount of use as my other bowl gouges.......well, except for one that is ground very blunt with a traditional grind. This one, I am using in the very bottom interior of bowls, and regardless of the V flute, seems to be doing a pretty good job for that application.


ooc
 
Chinese steel

Odie, the parting tool does say Pinnacle TM on the red handle. On the blade is HSS CHINA. Woodcraft still has a Pinnacle line, I think they are cryogenically treated. That line is quite a bit more expensive than the Wood River line. I have heard nothing about them as far as performance is concerned.

What you and Mike Peace have said about the flute design is interesting. I am looking at a WR roughing gouge or a D-Tools roughing gouge that fits in my Soverign handle. I know this is not the purchase of a lifetime but I need to be more discriminating in my older age.

Please note that I trudged 50 feet out to the workshop this morning in 2 inches of new snow over the 16 inches we got this past weekend to obtain this information.
 
Wayne,

I purchased a 8 pc set of WoodRiver HSS tools 3 years ago. Since then I have bought additional tools from P & N, Sorby, Hunter etc. While I don't turn bowls, roughly 90% of all my turning is still done with the bowl gouge from the WoodRiver set. I have not noticed any difference in the quality of the steel as compared with other HSS tools, but I don't own any cryogenically treated tools.

I have only experienced one problem with the set. The spindle roughing gouge that comes with the set has a very small tang where it enters the handle which is inadequate and snapped off while I was turning. Woodcraft promptly replaced it. I eventually forked over the money for the large P & N roughing gouge which is much larger and thicker with a very beefy tang. But overall, the WoodRiver set is a good started set. Most starter sets skimp on the handles and you get this set that is 12 inches long when they should be closer to 17.
 
Wayne, I dont know how many toolmakers in China supply these tools. I have not used the ones from Woodcraft but have used Benjamins Best from Penn State.The flutes are very V shaped and I have been told that consistency is or has been a problem. the price sure is right so I bought all the bowl and spindle sets. I guess I lucked out. The steel is great. Holds an edge just as long as all the other brands I have. The more powdered metal tools I have will stay sharper in nasty woods. The flutes mean you have to use each flute design just a bit different. Plus the kind of grind you have on it. Yesterday I used the Bs best,P&N, Thompson and Hamlet 2060 all on the same bowl. There is a lot of price difference in these four tools yet zero complaint with all four. They all did exactly what the flute design and grind I have on them was intended to do.
 
Another thing to consider, is the amount of usable tool steel. I own several WoodRiver tools as well as some Crown and Sorby tools. While you are at the store, take a WoodRiver tool and hold it up to an identical tool from Sorby. You will notice that the handles are longer on the WoodRiver tools and the steel is shorter. Also, the length of the flute on the WoodRiver tools is significantly shorter. It may feel like you are saving money, but you're not really saving much.
 
Ditto Kelly on Benjamin Best Tools

Steel good, no variation over several purchases that I can detect. Long handles and lots of length on the business end. Metal stains easily but so what! Perfect for my use in the odd grinds I use occasionally, and for running multiple turning stations while teaching. New turners on a budget can't go wrong.
 
What's in a name.

The following information came from one of the employees at Woodcraft. The turning tools stamped Pinnacle and Wood River are both made in China for Pinnacle. There were a few tools on the rack with the Pinnacle stamped handle. The Pinnacle cryogenic tools are made for Pinnacle by Crown in Sheffield , England. Pinnacle it appears does not manufacture any tools.

I checked a Wood River 3/8 bowl gouge and a Sorby 3/8 bowl gouge. The steel from the handle to tip was about 1 inch longer on the Sorby but the flutes were within 3/16 of each other. This was only one chisel comparison. Finish was obviously superior on the Sorby and the V on the Wood River was much more narrow as noted on several replys to this thread.

This is not earthshaking news but thanks to all for their input.
 
Wayne,

One thing to check is whether the flute is ground on center. Easy to do in the store.
My experience with the Chinese tools has been in working with those owned by students and other turners who I help with sharpening problems.

I have seen at least three of the Chinese bowl gouges where the flute was ground off center to where it could not be sharpened properly with a jig.
Look straight down the flute toward the handle. Put a straight edge( finger will do) across the top of the flute and hold it level. It is now easy to see if the flute ground centered.

Quality control is an issue with some factories. The idea that the machines do the work and therefore it must be right!

Al
 
Woodriver is a name that Woodcraft uses for the house brand thats made in the Pacific rim. The Pinnacle brand is the house brand thats made in the US or Europe. Some of the older tools got the Pinnacle name before the Woodriver name was created.
As noted Woodriver and Pinnacle are House Names not Manufactures.
This is how it was explaned to me.
 
Harry Robinette said:
Woodriver is a name that Woodcraft uses for the house brand thats made in the Pacific rim. The Pinnacle brand is the house brand thats made in the US or Europe. Some of the older tools got the Pinnacle name before the Woodriver name was created.
As noted Woodriver and Pinnacle are House Names not Manufactures.
This is how it was explaned to me.
Click to expand...

This seems to make sense, as my earlier purchased Pinnacle tools are the same HSS tools as the Woodriver tools, and are not powder technology.

ooc
 
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