Challenges, Commissions, Contests.

[Isaac Litster]

I have been turning for two years and I am still in high school, so I don't really have much experience with these. As you all probably know, there was a Puahala Calabash challenge last month. I participated, but what I oddly found difficult was that there was only one submission per person. I reckon this is the same with any sort of contest, commission, or challenge. If someone wants an ebony bowl, they don't want to pay for two, so you have to get it right the first time. In this contest though, you don't know what is wanted, so I had to guess. What I want to ask, is, if there is a challenge, such as this, or there is a contest or commission, do you make multiple, or do you make one perfect? You must make prototypes, right? I made 18 calabashes, and I still didn't know what would be the "best". I'll admit I am a beginner, so the forms weren't perfect, but I still wasn't happy with the form, size, and wood. How do you all decide on these? If someone asks for something you have never tried, how do you get it right?

Here is a family photo of my calabashes


(the tallest in the first photo is ~4" smallest is 3/8")

 

[Kirk Amidon]

Nice work. You can make as many as you want or need to - but simply submit your best work. Being educated about what features are desired is something to do up front, before you start turning. Understand all the rules, parameters, and limitations before signing up to anything. It stinks to 'lose' due to not doing your due diligence up front.

Can you provide additional pictures of the second one from the left - in back with the pronounced grain? I'd love to get a better look at it.

 

[Ron Solfest]

What Kirk said. Also recognize that different people like different things, there are many “right” ones. For instance, I’d like to see a better picture of the light yellow colored one, same sized (pine?) just to the right of what Kirk asked for. The subtle curve at the top of that one suggests ‘calabash’ best to me.

FWIW - I really liked the puahala you submitted but felt it was a little squat in the bottom, I thought the bottom should have rounded more with the widest part of the turning a little higher. But it definitely was one that caught my eye, and involved skill to turn with the negative spaces. Nice job!

BTW - keep it up. I knew what a lathe was in high school but it would take another 20yrs for be before I turned my first piece.

 

[Dave Landers]

Forum contests here are for fun. They can be used, like you did, as a prompt of a personal challenge. Based on the photo above, I'd say you were a winner as you probably got more out if it, personally, than most others.
They're also useful to get a view into the way others respond to the challenge. And the voting results can serve as a guide to what others think makes a good piece.
And they're all going to be different. This calabash challenge was focused on form (although we are all also influenced by grain and figure). A snowman challenge, for example, will likely end up being decided on "cuteness" or something similar.

Juried shows and exhibits and contests are a bit of another story. While you may approach them in a similar way (making a bunch of things to find your path), the process is different. The submission is often paired with a statement about yourself and the piece, which may need to tie the object to some theme of the show. This can be more challenging than the turning (it usually is for me, anyway).
Then there is the jury or judges - they will have their own biases and backgrounds. Sometimes they may not know much about turning or even wood. They will judge your work on its own merit, but also are judging against other submissions. They are also usually trying to build a whole show or exhibit (which may have its own unstated requirements in their minds). So they may select (or reject) entries because they do (or don't) help "fill out" the desired range of the exhibit.

 

[Jim Grieco]

Wow, great dedication to your work - especially being in high school with all the demands of life as a teenager. Looking forward to seeing what work you have in 20 years! *If I'm still around
You probably already know this since it looks like you took the time to set up this photo, but quality photos are as important as a quality piece. A bad photo can make a good piece look so-so.

 

[Michael Anderson]

Dave is spot on in his response above. 100%. Tagging on a bit regarding juries shows and competitions, it’s easy to get sucked into the ego-fueling (or ego-crushing) habit of comparing your work to others’. Don’t do it (this is a generalization—of course, it CAN also be helpful to compare your work with a critical, constructive eye). Try to consistently do your best work, and the type of work that keeps you motivated, and you’ll continue to rise.

The forum challenges are purely for fun. You never know what will come from them, whether opportunities for demos or just spurring an idea that guides your turning interests down a certain path. It’s great to win, but it shouldn’t be heartbreaking to “lose”. Everyone that participates is a winner (and I’m not much of an “everyone gets a trophy” person). What I mean is that it is difficult to put your work in the public eye, and even more so when people will be voting for/against publicly.

 

[Lyle Jamieson]

I have been turning for two years and I am still in high school, so I don't really have much experience with these. As you all probably know, there was a Puahala Calabash challenge last month. I participated, but what I oddly found difficult was that there was only one submission per person. I reckon this is the same with any sort of contest, commission, or challenge. If someone wants an ebony bowl, they don't want to pay for two, so you have to get it right the first time. In this contest though, you don't know what is wanted, so I had to guess. What I want to ask, is, if there is a challenge, such as this, or there is a contest or commission, do you make multiple, or do you make one perfect? You must make prototypes, right? I made 18 calabashes, and I still didn't know what would be the "best". I'll admit I am a beginner, so the forms weren't perfect, but I still wasn't happy with the form, size, and wood. How do you all decide on these? If someone asks for something you have never tried, how do you get it right?

Here is a family photo of my calabashes

View attachment 69500
(the tallest in the first photo is ~4" smallest is 3/8")

Very impressive Isaac! The question is which one do you like best?

 

[hockenbery]

How do you all decide on these? If someone asks for something you have never tried, how do you get it right?

I don’t think you will have any problem finding new homes for any of them.

As above which do you like best? Which one got you where you were trying to go best.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Some contests and exhibitions (like AAW's) allow for more than one submission from an artist.

Personally, I almost always work out my designs with full size drawings on graph paper before I put a piece of wood on the lathe. Lately I have also been using 3D software to make virtual prototypes.

 

[Dean Center]

The pua'hala contest was unique in the sense that this form has an 'ideal' and the voters compared entries against this specific. That 'ideal' is not laid out in a blueprint, so it falls to the eye and opinion of the beholder.

For me, if I had been making pua'hala recently, I would have the shape in my mind's eye and my hands would know how to get there. If I was making my first one, I would have to make several prototypes to develop those skills. In the past, I would make an item to give someone in just one try, and they always had substantial flaws. Learning to make prototypes is one of the hardest and most valuable lessons I've learned in woodworking.

In other 'contests', such as sponsored by the AAW or various symposia, the assignment is often a theme, as Dave mentions. "Balance" in the latest American Woodturner, for example. The submissions are usually all over the place and the relationship to the theme can be pretty hard to see. Some of the submission comments by the maker can sound rather contrived, trying to make that connection. But then, artists statements or comments that accompany their work often strike my scientist ears as fanciful, and weird, and sometimes as if they came from the south end of a steer walking north. (Artists actually seem like a different species to us left-brained types, but they've also got the imagination and creativity that allows them to make such wonderful stuff)

 

[Alan Weinberg]

Those are all gorgeous! What an amazing display. (I especially love back row left.) I am so happy to see someone as young as you in this hobby. I started under 2 years ago and I’m 68, wish I had started at your age. You will soon be winning contests. Great advice above!

 

[John K Jordan]

I'll admit I am a beginner, so the forms weren't perfect, but I still wasn't happy with the form, size, and wood. How do you all decide on these? If someone asks for something you have never tried, how do you get it right?

Isaac,

Nice work!

For form, sometimes it helps to put the piece in a darkened area in front of a white background lit with strong light. That can show the form better in some cases. This assumes you've already carefully examined the piece with your fingers, perhaps with eyes closed. One thing that helps some is get feedback from some others, not necessarily woodturners but people with a good eye - artists architect, photographer, etc.

One gentleman with a good eye for form teaches to make a number of similar things and spray them all black (so as to not be distracted by figure or color). Line them all up and maybe sort from your most to least favorite and learn from that.

But one thing, there is no "right", there are only opinions, and everyone has them. When I turn for someone, I turn to please myself and if they like it fine, if not, someone else may.

I don't turn to sell or do shows or contests, just turn for the joy of it (and to teach). It is fun to spread the joy, watch people's faces and body language when I give them something! Just this weekend I gave a piece to some friends and the wife held it pressed tight to her sweater until she got to the car, as if she considered it precious! (It was one like this, but not this one.)



I'd say just keep doing what you're doing and don't be too concerned what anyone thinks. If your goal is money or fame, you might be disappointed at times. But if your goal is to make beautiful and perhaps useful things, you are definitely going to be a shining star!

JKJ

 

[Gabriel Hoff]

I have been turning for two years and I am still in high school, so I don't really have much experience with these. As you all probably know, there was a Puahala Calabash challenge last month. I participated, but what I oddly found difficult was that there was only one submission per person. I reckon this is the same with any sort of contest, commission, or challenge. If someone wants an ebony bowl, they don't want to pay for two, so you have to get it right the first time. In this contest though, you don't know what is wanted, so I had to guess. What I want to ask, is, if there is a challenge, such as this, or there is a contest or commission, do you make multiple, or do you make one perfect? You must make prototypes, right? I made 18 calabashes, and I still didn't know what would be the "best". I'll admit I am a beginner, so the forms weren't perfect, but I still wasn't happy with the form, size, and wood. How do you all decide on these? If someone asks for something you have never tried, how do you get it right?

Here is a family photo of my calabashes

View attachment 69500
(the tallest in the first photo is ~4" smallest is 3/8")

Hey Issac, your pieces are extremely nice, I also started in high school in 2019 and you are really making awesome strides!

I do agree with the others here, but I would also add to repeat a certain form or work many, many times. This helps to solidify the process and also helps to make you think about advancing the style or difficulty of a piece. You make a certain number of pieces and then are like, I wonder if I would change this detail, and so on. It helps to keep your turning evolving and always fresh, so keep at it, try more forms and see if you can't stumble upon that one "perfect one"!

 

[Isaac Litster]

Wow, great dedication to your work - especially being in high school with all the demands of life as a teenager. Looking forward to seeing what work you have in 20 years! *If I'm still around
You probably already know this since it looks like you took the time to set up this photo, but quality photos are as important as a quality piece. A bad photo can make a good piece look so-so.

Especially when it comes to finishes, I believe. The light highlighting the sheen shows the work put into a glossy finish.

Very impressive Isaac! The question is which one do you like best?

That was part of my problem, I don't know! I am not extremely happy with any of them. I think the taller one-fourth from the right, but I don't think it straightened enough. I would have liked to make twice as many, maybe more until I got the shape, the wood, and the lighting. Maybe a better finish (it has no finish, just sanding).
I think I will post it in the gallery.

Those are all gorgeous! What an amazing display. (I especially love back row left.) I am so happy to see someone as young as you in this hobby. I started under 2 years ago and I’m 68, wish I had started at your age. You will soon be winning contests. Great advice above!

It's odd when I mention something about other woodturners to people who hear half of my statements, wondering why I am talking about so many people I don't know who are so much older...

 

[Isaac Litster]

Personally, I almost always work out my designs with full size drawings on graph paper before I put a piece of wood on the lathe. Lately I have also been using 3D software to make virtual prototypes.

Interestingly, I have a better hand in 3d, such as sculpting, carving, or turning, than with drawing or software, maybe I should try it.

 

[Isaac Litster]

Dave is spot on in his response above. 100%. Tagging on a bit regarding juries shows and competitions, it’s easy to get sucked into the ego-fueling (or ego-crushing) habit of comparing your work to others’. Don’t do it (this is a generalization—of course, it CAN also be helpful to compare your work with a critical, constructive eye). Try to consistently do your best work, and the type of work that keeps you motivated, and you’ll continue to rise.

The forum challenges are purely for fun. You never know what will come from them, whether opportunities for demos or just spurring an idea that guides your turning interests down a certain path. It’s great to win, but it shouldn’t be heartbreaking to “lose”. Everyone that participates is a winner (and I’m not much of an “everyone gets a trophy” person). What I mean is that it is difficult to put your work in the public eye, and even more so when people will be voting for/against publicly.

I am always trying to improve, every piece has to be better than the last in some way, even if it is small. Other people are good to get ideas from, but I agree that it is hard to move past thinking that someone on the internet is always doing it better, faster, or easier than you.

 

[Pat Cogdal]

Isaac, You are making great stuff and I admire your work ethic. If you are a member ( I hope you are) and have not read the article in last month American Woodturner https://www.woodturner.org/Woodturn...Luce-The-Quiet-Power-of-Understated-Form.aspx it's a great example of how far down the rabbit hole the quest for great form can go and how amazing the results can be. Also looking at the talks by Jacques Vesery can help you appreciate the quest for great form. But know it is a quest and as has been stated above it is subjective and we all look through a different lens. But keep on turning and find a mentor or group that you can have constructive critiques, it's really the fastest way to learn to be self critical.

 

[John K Jordan]

Personally, I almost always work out my designs with full size drawings on graph paper before I put a piece of wood on the lathe.

Same here. I make lots of sketches, sometimes multiple variations, maybe full size or to scale, maybe just quick ideas.

For decades I used 3d modeling/animation to design, illustrate, and explain things for both job and shop,



These days I prefer the spontaneity of idea to paper, especially for turning or building something.
For turnings I often divide the page down the middle and draw 1/2 a variation on each side to compare.

I've often thought how one of my favorite things in life is a blank piece of paper.

I like to keep a sketchpad handy - never know when something I see or imagine will trigger an idea.
Graph paper is perfect to refine the idea into the plan.

I am always trying to improve, every piece has to be better than the last in some way,

I like to think instead that the current piece should be different from the last. I can decide later if it's better. Either way, I learn.
And even pushing age 75, there is still no end in sight for opportunities to learn!

JKJ

 

[Lou Jacobs]

Interesting questions, Isaac. I’m in a very different point in my life (and I think most of the respondents on this thread are as well) than you. I’m retired and I am turning mostly for my own pleasure although I do sell some bowls just to keep the inventory down and to justify to myself the occasional purchase of an extravagant tool or piece of material. Most I give away.
I’ve had to come to terms over my life with the competitive side of myself. Thankfully, as I get older, that’s a bit easier to manage and keep in perspective. But I admit even a contest like this one brought a bit of it out for me and I did keep close track on how the voting went as the deadline came up.
As I said, when I posted my entry in the contest, it was the first calabash I turned. I was happy with it, but didn’t give any thought to making multiples as I had plenty else I wanted to get to.
At one brief point in my life, I had a custom cabinet making business, but I quickly learned that trying to please customers and meet their vision was simply something that raised more tension in me than it was worth. Now I turn and make things that give me pleasure and if somebody else likes them, terrific, but if not, no great loss to me.
I’m not sure how much sense I’m making here, but try to ask yourself how invested you are in winning, versus just improving your skills and enjoying the ride. That’s not to discount your work which I must say is spectacular! Any of those pieces you showed would’ve been a worthy entry in this contest.

 

[Lou Currier]

Another thing that challenges do is get you out of your comfort zone and try something new.

 

[Isaac Litster]

Interesting questions, Isaac. I’m in a very different point in my life (and I think most of the respondents on this thread are as well) than you. I’m retired and I am turning mostly for my own pleasure although I do sell some bowls just to keep the inventory down and to justify to myself the occasional purchase of an extravagant tool or piece of material. Most I give away.
I’ve had to come to terms over my life with the competitive side of myself. Thankfully, as I get older, that’s a bit easier to manage and keep in perspective. But I admit even a contest like this one brought a bit of it out for me and I did keep close track on how the voting went as the deadline came up.
As I said, when I posted my entry in the contest, it was the first calabash I turned. I was happy with it, but didn’t give any thought to making multiples as I had plenty else I wanted to get to.
At one brief point in my life, I had a custom cabinet making business, but I quickly learned that trying to please customers and meet their vision was simply something that raised more tension in me than it was worth. Now I turn and make things that give me pleasure and if somebody else likes them, terrific, but if not, no great loss to me.
I’m not sure how much sense I’m making here, but try to ask yourself how invested you are in winning, versus just improving your skills and enjoying the ride. That’s not to discount your work which I must say is spectacular! Any of those pieces you showed would’ve been a worthy entry in this contest.

I don't have competition on my island, so you guys are my competition. I am early enough; everything is a challenge, I don't see it as a problem because I don't have anything invested in it; the lathe and tools cost 200$, and I got a lot of wood from a senior community member, family, other woodturners, friends, etc, so I'm trying to improve as much as fast as possible... Selling seems stressful, but this is fun and a good way to, as @Lou Currier said, get out of my comfort zone and try something new.

 

[Ron Solfest]

I don't have competition on my island, so you guys are my competition. I am early enough; everything is a challenge, I don't see it as a problem because I don't have anything invested in it; the lathe and tools cost 200$, and I got a lot of wood from a senior community member, family, other woodturners, friends, etc, so I'm trying to improve as much as fast as possible... Selling seems stressful, but this is fun and a good way to, as @Lou Currier said, get out of my comfort zone and try something new.

Isaac - we were up your way this past summer, a two month trip around Alaska with our fifth-wheel. The closest we came to where you are was Juneau though. Alaska is GORGEOUS, and the fjords around where you live are spectacular! A beautiful place to turn wood