center rotten

[Charlie Knighton]

in the american woodturner (fall 2007) Dennis Laidler has a piece of ironwood on page 45, if one were trying to follow his lead (ie to copy) with a piece of rotten cherry log, how thick would one try to turn the piece
His piece appears 1/4 or more,

any suggestions or prepreations????

 

[Donna Banfield]

Well, baitbegger, there are some turners who would tell you to toss it into the woodstove or fireplace, and find another piece of wood that isn't rotten in the center. Ruth Niles sells a t-shirt with a John Jordan saying, "Life's too short to turn crappy wood."

Then there are others, who don't have a continuous stream of fresh, green turnable wood, who will do what they can to save the wood they have, because it's in limited supply.

I've been in both camps, personally. But if you really need to turn that particular piece of cherry with a rotten core, and need to stabilize the core, there are a few things that you might try. If the blank isn't too big, CA glue is one choice. I say not too big, because if the blank and the rot is a large chunk, you could go through A LOT of CA glue, adding up to a lot of money.

Another option is to use a 50/50 mix of white glue and water mix; soak the blank before turning for a few days, then take it out and let it dry completely. The rotten part should stiffen up from the glue/water mix and allow you to turn it.

Another option, depending on where the rot is, woudl be some of the commercially available punky wood fixes, like PEG and Pentacryl. I've never used either of these, but from what I recall in reading past posts, the use of these chemicals may affect the type of finish that you may use at the end; i.e., some finishes may not take.

Hopefully, others may chime in with their personal experience/opinion.

 

[waltben]

Minwax makes a very thin rotten wood stabilizer that I've used in the past with good success. It used to be sold by Home Depot. Very nasty stuff and has to be used with good ventilation, but hardens clear. It's thinner than the super thin CA I use and soaks in very well. I've had it go completely through over six inches of wood while hardening a bark inclusion.

 

[MichaelMouse]

How rotten is rotten? If it's just brownrot which hasn't progressed to cubical, it'll turn fine once it's dry. The cubical stuff will want a bulking agent with good integrity to keep it from breaking out. Since you can wait for it to dry, the non water-soluble stuff is a good choice.

White rot destroys the lignin as well as cellulose, so it requires help at the outset to keep from crushing and pecking. Water-soluble solutions like acrylics or vinyls will do best here.

Both methods will limit your choice of finishes, so if you're determined to use that particular piece of wood, imagine it in your mind with a nice surface finish, not a penetrating oil.

Yes, some wood is just too crappy to turn. May have posted this before.

 

[Charlie Knighton]

rotten cherry

i want to turn a natural edge bowl and a practice for another piece oblong hollow form

the diameter is about 9 inches and they have about 25% moisture content which should be ok for hollow form to finish turn but too much for the bowl

would it be ok to use the minwax wood hardener on the pith because on both forms the pith will be left in???????

 

[Hstudio]

Baitbegger....Try a 50/50 mix of epoxy and acetone. I use this on heavily spalted maple with success. It will allow you to get a thin wall without those nasty tear-outs! (This is a little trick use in stabilizing chalky turquoise). It penetrates much deeper than using CA and hardens better than some commercial products. Also consider CPES.... a marine product for repairing rotted wood in the boat building field...Good stuff but expensive.....As always, experiment!

As for the cherry....Kinda hard to tell what you are dealing with exactly from photos, but it looks like if the rot doesn't go too deep, you can get a nice nat edge with with a cool void.

MichaelMouse.....Dude, There are times that when a guy asks ...."What time is it?"..... he really just wants to know what time it is.....Not how to make a clock....FWIW

Cheers!

 

[MichaelMouse]

BB. While the glue dries. Looks like just a void in your pieces. Not even to the brownrot stage, so things should cut as normal. Though I doubt the pieces are already below the fiber saturation point, if you turn 3/8 or less (depending on your desire to show bark), you should have no problem in drying. These are from the sanding shelf, presently roughed and sanded with 120, which is about all I do when they're wet, because it clogs even stearated paper so bad. Time to fine sand prior to finishing!

It's a neat effect sometimes to leave the heart in, and as long as you're free of preexisting heart checks, they work. Expect them to bulge a bit on the outside and dish on the inside around the tight rings, but that doesn't normally interfere with the final look.

 

[MichaelMouse]

MichaelMouse.....Dude, There are times that when a guy asks ...."What time is it?"..... he really just wants to know what time it is.....Not how to make a clock....FWIW

Cheers!

Unsupported answers are sometimes referred to as opinions. I remember my old Drill Instructor's philosophy on that.

A bit of background elevates them to useful information when integrated with the questioner's experience.

Here's looking at you!

 

[Hstudio]

Unsupported answers are sometimes referred to as opinions. I remember my old Drill Instructor's philosophy on that.

A bit of background elevates them to useful information when integrated with the questioner's experience.

Here's looking at you!

An old flight instructor of mine once told me..."Sometimes its not smart to get bogged down in an overload of unnecessary information....just fly."

Keep an eye on your 6........Out!

 

[Paul Engle]

I have used penatcryl (sp) on rotted big leaf maple burl, granted the piece was only 6x6 and half was punky. two soakings and it was turnable , each soak was given 24 hrs to harden, the cost makes it almost not worth it but it did harden enuf to turn and sort of sand. I like it better than CA as it won't glue you together if you get some on your gloves you must wear to work that stuff....good luck and post what you do and what it looks like when ya " getter done " .

 

[Charlie Knighton]

getter done

good luck and post what you do and what it looks like when ya " getter done "

.

it will probably be middle of next month, family gathering at Salvo, NC to spit in the ocean

the cherry oblong hollow form will be practice for another blank, i am gathering info, materials, and hopefully things will sink in by the time i get started, i expect some, but thats what fun about doing something

thanks

 

[MichaelMouse]

An old flight instructor of mine once told me..."Sometimes its not smart to get bogged down in an overload of unnecessary information....just fly."

Keep an eye on your 6........Out!

Altitude, airspeed and ideas. With knowledge and care you can exchange a bit of one for two or two for one. If you lack the third, give it back to the taxpayers.

Arming levers raise....

 

[Barry Elder]

BB, I don't consider that to be rotten wood. It just has a particular character flaw. A design opportunity. If other old men and women don't want to turn such, good for them! If you want to give it a go, then have a ball!! Keep turnin' and learnin'. (And have a GREAT day!)

 

[dkulze]

Hey Charlie,

That piece of wood is what I'd call an opportunity. As you know from what I've sent you, I really don't turn much wood that doesn't have some type of "distress" to it. Clean wood just doesn't turn me on (heh, heh). That piece you have isn't one I'd consider "rotton". Looks like it got severe bark damage at some point and grew around it. I'd rough turn it on the outside dimension, CA anything punky or delicate looking, then turn it to approx 1/4 inch or so. One option is to turn a vase endgrain, leaving a gash out of one side where the "rot" is (turned green, you'll likely get some cool curling inward of the edges as it dries).

Two things when I turn a piece with significant structural questionability. I always turn the outside first and between centers (and with a bowl/spindle steady if possible). This gives stability and lets me get the speed up to where I can get a nice, false surface effect for riding my bevel.

Second, I hollow a little at a time from the top down. This keeps as much structural material in place as possible for as long as possible. Going to depth and then center out loses all your support wood just when you need it most. A little bit of practice can get you blending the edges of your cuts just fine to give you a smooth inside finish even though you're cutting in stages. If you're gonna let it dry before finishing, leave it REALLY thick and anchorseal the crap out of the outside then do the outside first and stages on the inside when dry.

dk

 

[Charlie Knighton]

dietrich

i wanted to use the cherry (rotten) to practice for that ey piece that i need to turn oblong, since i have never turned a form of that shape i wanted to practice on another piece, since i have nothing in that cherry besides time that i have looked and thought about it it does look like it could be a nice piece

 

[4mikee]

Was this one too crappy to turn

How rotten is rotten?

Yes, some wood is just too crappy to turn. May have posted this before.

I'm not clear on the photo, was that one too crappy to turn or did you use your drying method to turn a piece. I'd be interested in seeing the finished product if you did turn it. I had a post some time ago on this subject. I've got tons (literally) of spalted stuff with similar degradation (altough not quite as bad). Heck, it may be easier to save it than burn it and replace it.
Thanks

 

[MichaelMouse]

4M - If you look up at around 11:00 on that chunk you'll see a wad of material which formerly occupied the hole it sits in. Probably got a quarter cup of water out of that handful of mush. Didn't smell all that good either, truth to tell.

It's what can happen to yellow birch if you let it sit on the ground too long. Other white-rotted areas visible in the photo would take a fingerprint a half inch deep.


I love Yellow birch, as you can see from some of the pictures in my gallery above, but there comes a time when it's more trouble than it's worth.

 

[4mikee]

4M - If you look up at around 11:00 on that chunk you'll see a wad of material which formerly occupied the hole it sits in. Probably got a quarter cup of water out of that handful of mush. Didn't smell all that good either, truth to tell.

It's what can happen to yellow birch if you let it sit on the ground too long. Other white-rotted areas visible in the photo would take a fingerprint a half inch deep.


I love Yellow birch, as you can see from some of the pictures in my gallery above, but there comes a time when it's more trouble than it's worth.

Thanks Michael, I would have gotten back sooner but my Mom passed away this past week.

If I get the drift of your message the punky stuff can be usable and a good cut made once a rough out dries. I probably won't use any as decayed as the first photo but it sure would be nice to utilize what I have. Previous to the message, it was destined to be burned.
Mike

 

[MichaelMouse]

Thanks Michael, I would have gotten back sooner but my Mom passed away this past week.

If I get the drift of your message the punky stuff can be usable and a good cut made once a rough out dries. I probably won't use any as decayed as the first photo but it sure would be nice to utilize what I have.

Lost mine three months ago. We all know it's coming - to us, too - but it doesn't ease the pain much. Recall the good times and hug the rest of your family.

It's always brinksmanship in turning. The best-looking grain is around those knots and stresses, the best spalting is almost punky, the most praise from you peers comes from thin... it never ends. You can work all kinds of wood, but at a risk you elect to take.

 

[4mikee]

Thanks, sorry to hear about your Mother. Have a good one.
Mike