Well it's been awhile since I asked so I thought I'd give it a try. Has anyone, out there in turningland, changed over to CBN wheels? And if so: how do you like them, and where did you get them. Thanks, Paul K.
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CBN Wheels
- Thread starter Paul M. Kaplowitz
- Start date
Yes and yes. I guess I should expand that a bit. I had the Norton 3X 80 grit wheel and the Norton SG I think it is 120 grit. The Norton 3X 80 grit I really liked and haven't had any real problems with it. The SG wheel...well I'm chalking it up to a bad wheel. I tried and several other people including Don Geiger tried to get it to balance out with no real success. I thought at first it was the grinder, so I bought a Delta slow speed grinder, the one they don't make any more and had the same issue, so after much grinding of teeth I finally gave up on the SG. I now have the 80 and 180 CBN wheels and there is no vibration when sharpening tools. I use mostly Doug Thompson tools in 10V, with a few 2030 & 2060 tools from Hamlet and Glaser tools. On the edge off the CBN's I like the 80 for all tools except the small stuff under 1/2" tools. I don't care for the 180 on the larger tools...and this is my opinion only, no testing...the edge doesn't hold up as long as I think it should. The 80 puts the same edge on as my 80 Norton 3X and it lasts like I think it should. I sharpen a lot, I don't like dull tools, but I take very light passes on the grinder. I use the wolverine set up and jig for most bowl gouges, but I use the Ellsworth on my long side grind bowl gouges. I've had the 180 about 5 months and the 80 grit 3 months. I don't use them to shape tools....well that's mostly true...only to sharpen. For me the elimination of vibration from the wheels was worth the money, and while a bit much it’s still cheaper than a Baldor grinder, which was my next step.
Absolutely love mine, bought my from D-Way tools. Worth every cent
Cbn
Absolutely love my CBN wheels both 80 and 180 wheels, I use the 180 more than 90% of the time just a quick run around the tool and it is SHARP!. I also use mostly Thompson, Glaser gouges and Hamlet 2060 steels. No vibration no grit! I purchased them from Dway very happy with the service.
Marty🙂
Absolutely love my CBN wheels both 80 and 180 wheels, I use the 180 more than 90% of the time just a quick run around the tool and it is SHARP!. I also use mostly Thompson, Glaser gouges and Hamlet 2060 steels. No vibration no grit! I purchased them from Dway very happy with the service.
Marty🙂
I really like my CBN wheel........I have the 180 grit, and it puts a scary sharp edge on your gouges.................great investment .............I think used properly, it can extend tool life, as only a short touch up at the wheel is usually needed.
I will echo Bill Dalton. I had an SG wheel that I could never get to balance and swapped it out for a CBN wheel that I like very much.
Dennis
Dennis
Are these metal wheel / diamond grit? Of they are the same as the ones I am looking at, the look pretty good. How do the last?
Hey guys, where did you get them. Two said D-Way, any other suppliers?
Greg
No, they are not Diamond, CBN stands for Cubic Boron Nitride. Diamond really doesn't work well for HSS, while CBN does
Paul
This style is only available from D-Way, there are other suppliers though. Last time I did some looking D-Way's CBN wheels were cheaper then any-other supplier.
No, they are not Diamond, CBN stands for Cubic Boron Nitride. Diamond really doesn't work well for HSS, while CBN does
Paul
This style is only available from D-Way, there are other suppliers though. Last time I did some looking D-Way's CBN wheels were cheaper then any-other supplier.
The hand held diamond hones work exceedingly well on HSS, but as I understand it, if used on something higher speed, like the 1825rpm grinders we commonly use for sharpening lathe tools, the diamond surface will heat the HSS unevenly, or unpredictably......resulting in unreliable edge holding ability.
At work, we sharpen carbide metal cutting tools with a spinning diamond coated plate about 5" in diameter. I'm not quite sure what the plate rpm is, but it's much slower than we use for HSS lathe tools. My guess is the plate spins at around 250 rpm, or there abouts. I wonder if the diamond coated plates could be used on HSS lathe tools, IF the speed were slow enough.....????? Don't know, never tried it.
ooc
I have had CBN wheels for years now. I had matrix style which were 3/16 inch of abrasive matrix bonded to aluminum hubs. Loved them. However, the matrix would wear like standard wheels, at a much slower pace, and would develop some run out over a year or more of turning, and I had to take them back to the maker to have them trued up. Fortunately, the maker is here where I live. You can not dress them yourself as they will eat diamond dressers. I now have the D Way wheels and love them every bit as much, well, better as they don't develop run out. The CBN is electroplated to a steel wheel. They come balanced and true, so you never have to mess with that. They never need to be cleaned. They will never change size. There is no chance they will ever break and fly apart like standard Aluminum Oxide wheels can. They are 1 1/2 inches wide, which I really like. Dollar wise, they will outlast, by far, the same dollar amount of whichever type of grinding wheels you will ever get. They are more coarse, when new than my old CBN wheels were, but break in. They remove a lot of steel pretty quickly. The only draw back is that when I lay my tools down by the grinder, when I pick them up again, they are fuzzy with iron filings. A tap on some steel, a demagnitizer, or a magnet in a zip lock bag will help that out a lot.
http://www.d-waytools.com/tools-diamond-grinding-wheels.html
robo hippy
http://www.d-waytools.com/tools-diamond-grinding-wheels.html
robo hippy
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I use Norton 5SG wheels on my 8" Baldor grinder and they work great. I am not syaing that CBN wheels aren't great too, but the vibration others found is due to the grinder, not the wheels. After all, 5SG wheels are used on surface grinders to grind surfaces to 0.0001" flat or better. Check out Don Geiger's wheel truing tool for the Oneway wolverine system.
Diamond wheels are for sharpening carbide tools NOT high speed steel. HSS will react with the diamond "glue" at high speed and melt it away, leaving you with a wheel core and no diamond on it.
Use CBN for High Speed Steel tools and Diamond for carbide bits.
Diamond wheels are for sharpening carbide tools NOT high speed steel. HSS will react with the diamond "glue" at high speed and melt it away, leaving you with a wheel core and no diamond on it.
Use CBN for High Speed Steel tools and Diamond for carbide bits.
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Hi Again,
Two more things for clarification ....
The problem with sharpening steel with diamond applies to high speed sharpening such as on a bench grinder. Using a diamond stone by hand works fine as we know. You are not generating heat to wear off the diamond.
Do not use CBN wheels to sharpen you carbide hollowing bits. You will ruin the wheel in minutes.
Here's the rule
Carbide and non-ferrous items can be sharpened with a diamond wheel. NO HSS
For High Speed Steel use CBN (or traditional stones of course)
Two more things for clarification ....
The problem with sharpening steel with diamond applies to high speed sharpening such as on a bench grinder. Using a diamond stone by hand works fine as we know. You are not generating heat to wear off the diamond.
Do not use CBN wheels to sharpen you carbide hollowing bits. You will ruin the wheel in minutes.
Here's the rule
Carbide and non-ferrous items can be sharpened with a diamond wheel. NO HSS
For High Speed Steel use CBN (or traditional stones of course)
So Steve your saying that Don Geiger and myself, the two of us working together up in White, FL, are wrong when we couldn't get the wheel to balance? That it was only my two grinders that were to blame? I have all of Don's Jigs and wheel dressers and still use them. This wheel was and I'm only speaking if this wheel, is out of balance and it's not the grinder. I think the SG wheels are great...mine sucks. I'll be happy to make anyone a good price on it.
Merry Christmas to All!
Bill
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Hard to say without seeing them ... but I can try to help ... Unless I missed it, which grinders did you try the SG wheels on? You said Delta slow speed ... which model? What is the wheel diameter? Shaft diameter? Does it have machined end caps that hold the wheels or stamped steel? What did you use for a bushing? Did you use the SG wheels imported from Mexico (from the woodturning websites)? Or did you use the 5SG wheels made in the USA. When you say out of balance, do you mean side to side? Or you weren't able to get even the face to run true with Don's dresser? What do you think is bad about your wheel? Do you think the hole is off-size? Or the material density is uneven?
That sure looks balanced, got a question, what is the paperclip holding on the guard. My guess it has something to do with the light.😕😀
Bill, I'm with you, the ONLY wheel I have not been able to get to balance on any of my grinders was an SG. Unfortunately I had lost the paperwork by the time I tried and I couldn't return it.
Obviously not everyone has seen the issues we did. But the fact that several has suggests that Nortons QA leaves something to be desired, as they should have caught a wheel with 0.3 inches of side wobble, before it left the door
The clip is holding a plain piece of white paper. The other end of the stick is on a magnet and swivels to position the paper. When setting up the vari-grind jig, I can "fine tune" the setting of the V-arm by looking at the relationship of the tool to grind wheel from the side. The paper is positioned between the light, and the tip of the gouge/grind wheel surface, and gives a more clear black/white profile view of how well the alignment of tool bevel to grind wheel is.
This is something I learned by observing some of the very skilled finishing production workers completing fit and finish on medical instruments where I work.......and, I feel it adapts very well for a lathe turner interested in minimizing degree of error in their set-ups for grinding specific gouges.
I feel that all the fixed set-up jigs that are commonly used are at a disadvantage because the diameter of the grind wheel isn't a constant......therefore, the arc producing the bevel will vary. This method I've devised gives a perfect alignment every time for one specific individual gouge, at one specific grind wheel diameter, at one specific moment in time........
Hope that made any sense! 😀
ooc
n7bsn.........You're right, 0.3" side play is totally unacceptable. Wow, that's more than a quarter inch! Some amount of side play is normal, but that's way too much, and understandable why you couldn't get it in balance. If you got that Norton SG wheel from CSUSA, I'd be willing to bet they would still replace it in an interest of customer satisfaction......they keep sales records for years.
Note: A slight amount of side wobble will not prevent a wheel from being balanced, but I think it's all a matter of degree. One of my wheels had a little wobble, and I was able to straighten it out with a paper shim between the wheel and inward side flange. Rotating the wheel on the shaft can also improve things, too.
ooc
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0.3" of side wobble ? Wow, that is incredible!! I just measured mine on my grinder with an indicator ... 0.0015" out of round on the face tured with Don's jig. 0.009" out of true measuring one of the side faces. The wheel runs fine, I tried Odie's nickel test and it worked. I can't get over the 0.3" of wobble. if you take the wheel off the grinder (i am sure it already is) can you measure the thickness of the wheel while lying flat on a bench? 0.3" should be easily measuring and Norton or whoever you bought it from should take it back regardless of lack of paperwork. A wheel that bad could kill someone. What about bushings? Do you have those plastic circles, something else or none?
Yea, I'm not spending any more time with this stone. The stone was purchased from Craft Supply. It was dead flat across the face but had side wabble and we were not able to get enough of that out to remove the vibration the wabble caused. My CBN wheels from D Way have no vibration in my Delta 23-725. On my big tools the SG vibration was annoying, but on the small stuff it made sharpening a real chore.
I would like to say to those that are price consious that I think, and this is my opinion only, that a 3X that balanced is a really good set up, especially for the cost.
While the vibration from my SG wheel was a killer, the finish on the tool from the SG wheel to me is worth the extra price. So if you have one that doesn't wabble it is a great stone.
After using the CBN wheels, I cannot envision going back to frangible wheels, I don't care what the cost.