Since I first heard about CBN wheels a few years ago, there seem to be many more brands and sellers, some at significantly lower prices. Would appreciate any info/experience you can share.
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CBN Wheels: Price v quality
- Thread starter Jamie Straw
- Start date
I have had the D Way (80 and 180) for 5 or so years. I have had a couple of Ken Rizza's wheels for a few months. I also had an Optigrind and a Cuttermaster, and sharpened on them all. If I had to pick one that looks best out of the box, maybe a slight edge to the Cuttermaster. Which one cuts best, I could tell no difference other than between new and broken wheels with the broken in ones being a bit slower, but still very fast. Ken's wheels are the only ones on aluminum hubs which makes them lighter weight and easier on smaller grinders than the heavier steel wheels. How big of a point that is I have no idea. To date, I have never heard of some one burning up a grinder because of the heavy wheels. The only question to be answered between the steel and aluminum hubs would be is the electroplating any stronger or better on one or the other. I may be able to answer that in another 5 years or so, maybe longer since I don't do production turning any more.
Now, the reason I got the Woodturnerwonder wheels is that I have to experiment.... I got a 600 grit and asked Ken for a 1000 grit wheel. Does finer grit make a difference??? I have never honed, or when I did, it didn't make any real difference. So, 600 grit burr on a scraper for shear scraping, cleaned up tear out on a highly figured baseball bat blank to smooth and shiny when the 180 grit burr, skew (the skew and I don't play well together), SRG, or bowl gouge couldn't clean it up to the point where I could start sanding with any grit higher than 80. Big difference. Didn't seem to make that much difference on the skew, but again, me and the skew... I wanted to try 1000 grit and Ken obliged by making one for me. It did seem to step things up a notch. I was up in Salem last weekend for a play date/saw dust session with gouges, and the host, Terry Gerros had a piece of soft big leaf maple on the lathe. He had 'acceptable' levels of tear out in that soft wood. Well, I took a gouge sharpened on the 1000 grit wheel, took about a 1 inch pass, and showed Terry. "Reed, do you want to leave that grinder here???? Are you sure??? I am not sure if you should have shown this to me or not..." I finally got out of the shop after Terry had sharpened all his tools on it.... I guess the big test for me was the skew... on the 1000 grit wheel, I was able to get an edge that would cut that figured maple base ball blank much more cleanly, but not as clean as I could shear scrape, which again could have been me and not the skew. I did find that it would cut fine going one way, but not the other. A quick touch with the hone, and it would cut the other way... Note here, the only financial relationship I have with Ken is that we have traded for grinding wheels and lights for robo rests...
So, the point of the above, is that I think the grit is probably more important than the brand. The performance differences are minimal to non existent. The finer grits took my tools up to a level that my honing never approached, and yes, I may have been doing it all wrong. The edges from the fine grit wheels are not suitable for heavy roughing cuts, but for fine finish cuts, well, "OH MY". Others need to experiment to see if it works for them, and I may have to undust the Tormek and put some honing compound on the leather wheel....
So, what to buy? Only one, well, 180 grit gives an excellent burr on my scrapers for heavy roughing and a good burr for shear scraping (I only use scrapers for this). Not great for reshaping other than minimal. Two? Well, I prefer the 80 and 180 for reshaping and heavy burrs. You could easily go with a 180 and a finer grit. I haven't tried the 320 or I think there are some 220 or so out there. I would skip to the 600. Personally, I now have, use, and demo with 80, 180, 600, and 1000. I will have them in Atlanta for people to play with and compare, though no lathe in my booth. Just interesting to me.
Engineer's motto: If it ain't broke, take it apart and fix it anyway.... It's all my dad's fault!!!
robo hippy
Now, the reason I got the Woodturnerwonder wheels is that I have to experiment.... I got a 600 grit and asked Ken for a 1000 grit wheel. Does finer grit make a difference??? I have never honed, or when I did, it didn't make any real difference. So, 600 grit burr on a scraper for shear scraping, cleaned up tear out on a highly figured baseball bat blank to smooth and shiny when the 180 grit burr, skew (the skew and I don't play well together), SRG, or bowl gouge couldn't clean it up to the point where I could start sanding with any grit higher than 80. Big difference. Didn't seem to make that much difference on the skew, but again, me and the skew... I wanted to try 1000 grit and Ken obliged by making one for me. It did seem to step things up a notch. I was up in Salem last weekend for a play date/saw dust session with gouges, and the host, Terry Gerros had a piece of soft big leaf maple on the lathe. He had 'acceptable' levels of tear out in that soft wood. Well, I took a gouge sharpened on the 1000 grit wheel, took about a 1 inch pass, and showed Terry. "Reed, do you want to leave that grinder here???? Are you sure??? I am not sure if you should have shown this to me or not..." I finally got out of the shop after Terry had sharpened all his tools on it.... I guess the big test for me was the skew... on the 1000 grit wheel, I was able to get an edge that would cut that figured maple base ball blank much more cleanly, but not as clean as I could shear scrape, which again could have been me and not the skew. I did find that it would cut fine going one way, but not the other. A quick touch with the hone, and it would cut the other way... Note here, the only financial relationship I have with Ken is that we have traded for grinding wheels and lights for robo rests...
So, the point of the above, is that I think the grit is probably more important than the brand. The performance differences are minimal to non existent. The finer grits took my tools up to a level that my honing never approached, and yes, I may have been doing it all wrong. The edges from the fine grit wheels are not suitable for heavy roughing cuts, but for fine finish cuts, well, "OH MY". Others need to experiment to see if it works for them, and I may have to undust the Tormek and put some honing compound on the leather wheel....
So, what to buy? Only one, well, 180 grit gives an excellent burr on my scrapers for heavy roughing and a good burr for shear scraping (I only use scrapers for this). Not great for reshaping other than minimal. Two? Well, I prefer the 80 and 180 for reshaping and heavy burrs. You could easily go with a 180 and a finer grit. I haven't tried the 320 or I think there are some 220 or so out there. I would skip to the 600. Personally, I now have, use, and demo with 80, 180, 600, and 1000. I will have them in Atlanta for people to play with and compare, though no lathe in my booth. Just interesting to me.
Engineer's motto: If it ain't broke, take it apart and fix it anyway.... It's all my dad's fault!!!
robo hippy
Cbn
I also have D-way tools wheels. A club member bought the half price wheels, $240 for 2 wheels. Had to laugh, they are half the size... You get what you pay for.
I also have D-way tools wheels. A club member bought the half price wheels, $240 for 2 wheels. Had to laugh, they are half the size... You get what you pay for.
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Just to be clear, my first wheel was a D Way. The second was from Ken Rizza. They are both the same width.
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
I own a Dway but have used the Wheels sold by Ken Rizza. They are excellent. I haven't heard of any complaints about them. They are less expensive and he has a wide variety of grits and shapes to fit 6", 8" and Tormek grinders.
I also use the D-Ways and have had them for many years now also. They work well (80/180) and I haven't had any reason to get another one. That said, I would certainly recommend one of the models that is wider like the D-Ways. Once you go wide, you'll never want to go back.
Doesn't matter
It doesn't matter - as with everybody else, your turning will take an incremental step UP with CBN - they are a deal at twice the price.
I use the D-Way - I've talked to Dave several times - the guy is a stickler for doing things right. I think most, maybe all, CBN wheels come from China - you want to do business with somebody that will insure they are done right.
That being said, judging from the posts the other guys are good too.
Just do it - you'll be hugging yourself for a long time.
John
It doesn't matter - as with everybody else, your turning will take an incremental step UP with CBN - they are a deal at twice the price.
I use the D-Way - I've talked to Dave several times - the guy is a stickler for doing things right. I think most, maybe all, CBN wheels come from China - you want to do business with somebody that will insure they are done right.
That being said, judging from the posts the other guys are good too.
Just do it - you'll be hugging yourself for a long time.
John
I don't know why any one would want the 1 inch wide wheels. I have never gone off the edge of the 1 1/2 inch wide wheels when sharpening my gouges. The Optigrind is sold as in house brands for both Woodcraft and Craft Supplies in the 1 inch wide version. I asked Craft Supplies why and they commented that it was for safety. I can only guess that they are thinking about the possibility of getting scratches and cuts from the wheel when sharpening, or the open wheel presenting more possibilities for things getting tangled up in the spinning wheel. I have heard of making spacers so the wheel cover can surround the wheel. They do put off dust that floats like wood dust does.
robo hippy
robo hippy
Dave (Schweitzer/D-Way, for those who don't know) is my go-to guy, and who I'll probably get my wheel from -- he's less than an hour's drive away, and has helped me tremendously with sharpening, and making great gouges and beading tools.
As to quality: My nagging suspicion is that inexpensive CBNs might not truly be balanced. Doesn't sound like anyone's encountered this problem so far.
As to quality: My nagging suspicion is that inexpensive CBNs might not truly be balanced. Doesn't sound like anyone's encountered this problem so far.
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Did you ever go off the edge of your wheels before CBN? Sharpening scrapers seems like it could be done just as well on a 1/2" wide wheel as a 2" wide. I don't see any problems with any width wheel if you pay attention. I've never heard of a quality issue with anyone's CBN wheel, cheap or expensive.