CBN vs. Tormek- worth the extra cost?

[Marc Goldberg]

The recent edition of American Woodturner had an article extolling the value of the Tormek wet grinding system for sharpening turning tools. I am currently using 8" CBN wheels on a standard grinder for sharpening my gouges and am wondering if the improvements noted in the article are worth the high cost to upgrade.

I am not doubting the author's reporting, but would appreciate hearing comments from others who have made the switch to Tormek about how much improvement they actually experienced and whether they think the cost of the upgrade was worthwhile.

 

[Dwight R Rutherford]

I used and swore by a Tormek for years. Bought CBN wheels two years ago. I think a Tormek is an excellent sharpener for most edged tools, just not as good for turning tools. Want to buy a Tormek with 2 years of dust on it?

 

[Sergio Villa]

I hve a CBN wheel and a Tormek. I us the dry grinder for shaping, once in the lifetime of the tool and the Tormek to sharpen it: twenty seconds for thousand of times per tool. I should have saved the money of the CBN wheel for a good composite to shape the gouges.
By the way, if you also use cabinetmaker gouges or chisels the CBN is worth zero, nothing.

 

[Dave Mueller]

+1 to what Sergio said. I have both and use the Tormek exclusively for sharpening. I use a homemade jig to set up for each tool and can sharpen any tool in about a minute. I think I lose less tool steel, as I have not seen any tool "shortening" from grinding even after 5 years.

 

[john lucas]

I'm still on the boat on this. I am currently sharpening with a strip sander, a Tormek, and a CBN. The Tormek is supposedly around 1000 grit, I'm using a 320 grit belt on the sander and the CBN is around 180 grit. The CBN removes the most metal per sharpening, the Belt is next but will remove metal very rapidly if you use any pressure so and surpised me how quickly you can ruin an edge if you don't have a light touch. The Tormek of course being 1000 grit removes the least steel, at least as near as I can tell.
Edge holding I still can't tell much. It's kind of like when I first bought the Thompson tools. It was very hard to really say, yes it holds an edge longer than other tools. I did prove it one day when turning aluminum. The HSS steel tools would need to be sharpened at least 3 times to turn one piece for my customer. The Thompson tool would turn that whole piece with one sharpening. Haven't done a test like that to try and see if sharpening to 1000 grit is worth the effort of 180 grit. 2 seperate studies have said yes it does and my tests certainly aren't very scientific. A few professional turners still sharpen at 60 and 80 grit and certainly produce a lot of work.
There are so many factors that affect edge holding. The actual angle of the tool edge, the durability or toughness of the steel, and of course how smoothly the steel is polished when sharpened. There's still some argument that the saw tool effect of the edge when using a course wheel has some effect on how long it cuts. I don't know, I'm just playing with the different sharpening methods to try and learn myself. What I do know is sharpening needs to be easy and fast. If it is then whatever grinder you use to get there will probably work for you. 99 percent of us probably won't be able to tell the difference in edge holding.
For me the Tormek is not as useful simply because I don't have water in my shop and have to remember to bring some out and then in winter have to dump it so it doesn't freeze. With the other 2 methods I just use them, no water needed and I don't have to refill the water tank.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Since the article appeared, I feel emboldened enough to openly proclaim my sharpening orientation with strong Tormek tendencies and have been for fifteen years. I also have a dry grinder with Norton 3X wheels and I have used a CBN wheel a couple times. I am liberal enough to sharpen different ways such as when taking a recent class and free hand sharpened using a dry grinder.

If I were to compare there three sharpening systems, I would say that the dry grinder is OK, the CBN wheel is fantastic, and I agree with everything that Terry Martin wrote about Tormek.

 

[Sergio Villa]

I would like to add that wet grinding has another major advantage over any other dry grinding: safary: no noise, no speed, and mainly no dust, either metal or powder from the wheel. This, for people that keep recommending safety even in particulars that for me are negligible is a major factor. No grinding or toxic metal dust.

 

[john lucas]

I have trouble when hand grinding on a wet grinder. I sharpen several tools without a jig and I do that by watching the sparks come over the edge. I can't see them on a wet grinder so I either don't get it perfectly sharp or i remove more metal than necessary trying to guarantee that I grind to the edge.

 

[Sergio Villa]

I have trouble when hand grinding on a wet grinder. I sharpen several tools without a jig and I do that by watching the sparks come over the edge. I can't see them on a wet grinder so I either don't get it perfectly sharp or i remove more metal than necessary trying to guarantee that I grind to the edge.

Just look and feel the edge or better use a jig.

 

[Jeff Gilfor]

You guys are killing me!

I thought that my CBN wheels were the best thing since sliced bread, and then I go and read some articles about flat grind sharpening. So now I also have a ProEdge setup. Still sharpen my scrapers on the coarse CBN wheels though, as it give such a perfect burr.

Now you guys are making me think that I should run out and get a wet sharpening system. Stop. Enough is enough. I can't fit any more sharpening equipment into my already cramped shop.

Just kidding. This is a very interesting thread. My ProEdge sharpening station is too new for me to make my meaningful comments bout how it compares to the CBN wheels, which were my absolute favorite sharpening method thus far.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I have trouble when hand grinding on a wet grinder. I sharpen several tools without a jig and I do that by watching the sparks come over the edge. I can't see them on a wet grinder so I either don't get it perfectly sharp or i remove more metal than necessary trying to guarantee that I grind to the edge.

I guess that it is an acquired touch that comes with consistently using the Tormek, but if you are having trouble determining exactly when the edge has been sharpened, here are a couple things that will help:

• Use a wide felt tip marker to paint the bevel black. This serves two purposes. First it helps you set the jig to perfectly match the existing bevel angle and second it tells you that when the black is gone, the edge is sharp.
• Look at the edge under a bright light. If you see any glints, sparkles, or bright lines of light then the edge isn't sharp.

Finally, I touch the edge to see if it feels sharp.

 

[Roger Chandler]

I have Norton 3x wheel on one side and I have a Jet clone of the Tormek that I have used with all the jigs available to go along with it. That being said.........when I got my 180 grit CBN wheel..........in my opinion, I got the best thing going for turning tools!

My Tormek clone now sits covered on my bench and if I need to sharpen a plane blade for instance or a knife, then I will pull it out, but my turning tools.........major shaping the 60 grit Norton 3x.......all other sharpening I use the CBN from D-way.

I think the CBN is the best combination of speed, refined edge and dustless sharpening available today....of course I have a magnet at the base of the wheel to catch the metal particles but it has never been a problem that I can tell. I like the fact that the wheel always stays the same diameter, and the machining on the wheel makes for a balance where the grinder runs smooth as silk!

 

[Odie]

You guys are killing me!

I thought that my CBN wheels were the best thing since sliced bread, and then I go and read some articles about flat grind sharpening. So now I also have a ProEdge setup. Still sharpen my scrapers on the coarse CBN wheels though, as it give such a perfect burr.

Now you guys are making me think that I should run out and get a wet sharpening system. Stop. Enough is enough. I can't fit any more sharpening equipment into my already cramped shop.

Just kidding. This is a very interesting thread. My ProEdge sharpening station is too new for me to make my meaningful comments bout how it compares to the CBN wheels, which were my absolute favorite sharpening method thus far.

I had to laugh when I read Jeff's post.....😀

I guess the point was, and still is.....the goal will always be the sharpest edge that is possible. The ONLY way to judge that is by how clean of a cut that edge can produce. It takes more than applying tool to wood....there is a necessary tool handling skill that needs to be a component of the total.

For me, I use 80gt Norton SG wheels for all my general sharpening, but that is only one necessary step. I've come to the conclusion that honing is the best way to get a the best possible edge. There is a skill involved in honing, as well. I've also concluded that until someone has seen the results of perfection in honing, understanding of it's value can't, and never will exist.

Honing and re-honing can be done a dozen times, before it's necessary to return to the grinder. The secondary bevel is that which indicates a return to the grinder.

I sympathize with Jeff, and all those who buy all the latest and greatest innovations in sharpening technology......, but there comes a time to quit that and concentrate on your own methods to arrive at "the goal". What others do to achieve the ultimate in sharpness, may not be the same is it is for me, but the solution isn't throwing money at the problem......it is developing your techniques.

ooc

 

[n7bsn]

I've related that tale of the DW deciding we had to get a CBN wheel after her first use more then once.
But we both liked it well enough I sold the wet-grinder we had and have never looked back since.

As for the idea you can't sharpen carving tools, etc on a CBN. You are entitled to you're own opinion, you aren't entitled to you're own facts.

D-Way, and several other vendors, added the side CBN at the request of hand carvers. The fact it that a CBN wheel works on turning tools, hand chisels, carving tools, plane blades, etc

 

[Bill Boehme]

I had the same reaction as Odie when I read Jeff's tongue-in-cheek post. We can become obsessed with a never ending search for the Holy Grail of sharpening systems in which we ease the pain of our last great disappointment by taking comfort in the feeling of anticipation that we experience in preparing ourselves for the next disappointment.

 

[john lucas]

I can't imagine sharpening my carving tools on the CBN since its only 180 grit. Shaping yes but sharpening no. Even the tormek is too course for actual sharpening. I mostly hone my carving tools if they need sharpening I use a 1200 grit diamond hone. When that wont work I go back to the tormek.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Different people have different perceptions of sharp depending on what they need. A carpenter sees a hand chisel and an axe as two tools with a common purpose and common sharpening need. As a Neanderthal woodworker, I like my chisels to be at least razor sharp.

 

[Jeff Gilfor]

My last post was, of course, ambit tongue in cheek.

I do however love the coarse CBN wheel for scraping tools. Still gives me a better burr (and that is what, at my turning skill level, I feel is doing the real work with those tools) than anything short of my Veritas burnished. I prefer to CBN wheel, as the burnished takes a very subtle touch to make it work well.

As for cutting tools, so far in this round of "change my mind every other month", the flat grinding with the ProEdge sharpening system is superior to anything else I've used thus far. I shape with 80 grit, refine with 240 grit, and truly sharpen with 1200 grit Trizac belts. When the edge gets dull, I head back for a quick 1200 grit touch up. Tools are sharp as razors, and I don't use up nearly as much steel as I did with 180 grit CBN "sharpening."

Next, I will be testing out a honing wheel addition to the sharpening bench.

It is funny how one's preferences change with practice and experience.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

Different people have different perceptions of sharp depending on what they need. A carpenter sees a hand chisel and an axe as two tools with a common purpose and common sharpening need. As a Neanderthal woodworker, I like my chisels to be at least razor sharp.

Bill don't forget the mirror polish on the chisels and planes. I sometimes wonder if when we get away from basic sharpening we did forget the fantastic carving that was done before even electricity. How did they sharpen and were they constantly looking for the Immaculate Sharpener? Ok they sharpened with grinding wheels and rocks.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I doubt that we can give much, if any, credit for advancing the state of the art of sharpening to the advent of electrical machinery. The art of sharpening tools has been highly refined for untold centuries. An argument could even be made that the use of electrical machinery represented a setback to the need for super sharp tools because of the ability to substitute brute force in the place of sharpness and finesse. A bodger using a spring pole or treadle lathe probably wouldn't have had much interest in the grinder sharpened instruments that many of the turners today proclaim to be sharp.

Foot or hand powered grinding wheels weren't exactly the state of the art in sharpening technology. They were more like the forerunner of today's electrical powered grinders ... suitable for uses where moderate sharpness is adequate. A polished bevel is not a reliable indicator of edge quality.

 

[Odie]

Add to that today's need to have instant gratification. I suspect many/most turners today just don't want to invest the time and effort to get that super sharp edge the old timers knew how to get. Many of them not only could get an edge good enough to shave with, they did shave with it! (And slicing a few hairs off your forearm isn't a good indication of an edge good enough to shave tough whiskers off'n your chinny chin chin! 😀)

What makes it worse, is the modern electric powered lathes will dull that finely sharpened edge in a matter of seconds. Probably most turners will throw up their hands in despair.....and settle for moderately sharp. They'll probably never know what super sharp can do, regardless of it's inability to last for long. One thing that should be considered......a moderately sharp edge will not cut wood as cleanly as a super sharp edge, and the force behind that edge will not make a whit of difference.

ooc

 

[Jeff Gilfor]

Excuse me Odie, but I used to think you were a bit of an exaggerator with regards to honing and stripping, etc.

Since moving up to finer grits and honing wheel for my turning tools, I have become a believer. I usually only to to those lengths to get a mirror finish razor sharp edge when I'm at the final cuts stage. Takes a bit more time to keep touching up the edge during the final turning, but it save me considerable time when sanding.

 

[n7bsn]

Excuse me Odie, but I used to think you were a bit of an exaggerator with regards to honing and stripping, etc.

Since moving up to finer grits and honing wheel for my turning tools, I have become a believer. I usually only to to those lengths to get a mirror finish razor sharp edge when I'm at the final cuts stage. Takes a bit more time to keep touching up the edge during the final turning, but it save me considerable time when sanding.

A few years ago there was an article in the American Woodturner with close-up macro-photo's of wood, showing the results of honed tools on finish cuts. They clearly showed that a honed tool leaves a much better finish then the ragged edge left by a tool straight off a regular wheel.

This was pre-CBN wheel popularity, so the finer edge a CBN leaves wasn't shown. But even a CBN edge can be improved with proper honeing

 

[Odie]

Excuse me Odie, but I used to think you were a bit of an exaggerator with regards to honing and stripping, etc.

Since moving up to finer grits and honing wheel for my turning tools, I have become a believer. I usually only to to those lengths to get a mirror finish razor sharp edge when I'm at the final cuts stage. Takes a bit more time to keep touching up the edge during the final turning, but it save me considerable time when sanding.

A few years ago there was an article in the American Woodturner with close-up macro-photo's of wood, showing the results of honed tools on finish cuts. They clearly showed that a honed tool leaves a much better finish then the ragged edge left by a tool straight off a regular wheel.

This was pre-CBN wheel popularity, so the finer edge a CBN leaves wasn't shown. But even a CBN edge can be improved with proper honing

Thanks Jeff and n7bsn........

As I see things, there will always be those who are true believers in their methods of acquiring an edge, whether they hone, or not.....and, I'm no exception. I'm a true believer in honing, but like all things woodturning, there is a necessary procedure to get the best results. I'm not saying there is only one best procedure, but mine works for me. There is undoubtedly more than one path to the same destination, but honing is a key ingredient for the results I've come to expect. Jeff, I see you are using a different method for honing than I do (I do it all completely by hand), but like I say, honing isn't restricted to a single method.

You are correct that finish cuts are the most important......roughing and shaping can be done with moderately sharp edges. I know you know that, but only repeating what is obvious to you, for those who don't.

Whenever I extoll the virtues of honing, there always seems to be those who disagree with that conclusion. Well, so be it......but I know what the capabilities of my honed edges will do for cleanly cutting wood without the need for much sanding. Sure, it's bothersome to continually touch up the edge, but the resulting clean cut is golden. I suspect that many will not understand the value of honing, because it takes some degree of expertise with tool handling for honing to really make a difference......it takes time and practice.....and, evaluation of the results with many different cuts and wood species for the light bulb to "click"......and, when it does, most will be saying to themselves that there's nothing difficult about this. It just takes a little hands on OJT.....and, patience! 😉

Jeff: Tell us, if you would, about your motorized honing wheel......thanks!

ooc

 

[Jeff Gilfor]

Sure Odie:

I am really liking the ProEdge belt sharpener I got as part of an early Father's Day present (the other part was some personal lessons from Rudy Lopez; a local pro turner with good teaching credentials). The finish from these flat ground tools are definitely better than anything I got from my 8 inch wheels. Only the scrapers must be sharpened on the CBN, as the belts just don't give a decent burr (any at all?).

Once I got used to the belt shartpening system, I realized that I can get an almost mirror finish with the 1200 grit "trizac" belt. I had tried hand honing with a diamond card and with a CBN stone I got from D-Way. Neither gave me ideal results, as I must be a bit of a spaz with those (needed lots more practice).

Anyway, I sharpen really dull (but properly profiled) tools with the 600 grit belt, then move to the 1200 grit as my honing belt. By using the high grit and same gouge jig as I used when forming the bevel, I can keep the honed edges perfectly aligned with little effort on my part. Only takes asecond or two.

I have an abrasive rubber honing wheel attachment on the belt sharpener. I shaped it to fit the flutes of my tools, and use that, with honing compound, to polish the flutes of my gouges. The combination of a polished flute and nearly polished bevel seems to make the tool finsh almost as good as I can get with a planing cut from a sharp skew. I have MUCH less issue with tearout as well; even with woods that normally would cause me issues. I also have a leather "stropping" wheel that I haven't yet found the need for, but may test out after the rubber wheel gets worn out.

Originally, I tried honing the bevels with this wheel (before I profiled it to fit nside the flutes). I just couldn't get the right angle, and actually ended up with some VERY shiny but poorly cutting tools. I found that the 1200 grit belt with the jig was best (for me) on the bevels, and the wheel worked well for the inside of the flutes.

Secret is though, I've found, is that I do need to refresh the edge on the 1200 grit belt rather often during final tuening to get a smooth finish. However, I can generally start sanding at 220, as the 180 grit actually makes the surface rougher than the tool's finish.

One other new technique that I started using for the insides of my bowls, is to do some final shaping with a Kelton sheer scraper freshly sharpened as stated above. Helps smooth out the curves inside, which I had typically had problems getting perfectly smooth from lip, through transition, and to the bottom center of larger blowl. I always used to have a slight change in the crvature no matter how carefully I tried to finish with a single pass.

 

[Bill Boehme]

?... Only the scrapers must be sharpened on the CBN, as the belts just don't give a decent burr (any at all?).

I suspect that you could do as I do and put an "aftermarket" burr on your scrapers. 🙄

With my Tormek, I put a nice sharp "corner" on a scraper and then use a burnisher to put a very heavy duty and aggressive burr that holds up far better than any ragged burr from a high speed grinding wheel. Being smooth and solid, these burrs made with a burnisher also "cut" with nice shavings rather than "scrape" which means that the wood surface is cleaner.

 

[Jeff Gilfor]

I actually do have the Veritas burnisher attached to the corner of my grinding station bench. Perhaps I should revisit using that. I stopped using it when I first switched over to the CBN wheels. The combination of 10V steel and the coarse CBN wheel left a more than acceptable burr on them. Thanks for the reminder and tip.

 

[robo hippy]

Well, I was off in Phoenix, and don't have computer skills to let me keep up on the forums, plus I was too tired at the end of the days. Now, as for which wheel gives the best edge, that will never be solved. The opinions vary from 'a more serrated edge cuts better' to 'a more polished edge cuts better', and of course, both schools think that their edge lasts longer. I have played a bit with the Tormek, even platform sharpening with it, and there was no obvious difference in edge quality. None at all to me. Time wise, no difference. Tool wear, again, no difference. The main thing with sharpening is that we tend to over sharpen. One light quick pass is all that is needed. As for the more polished edge, well, for sure the CBN leaves a more polished edge when compared to a standard grinding wheel, even for more comparable grits. To date, there have been no micro photographs of a CBN edge for comparison. Now, Optigrind has a new 400 grit wheel available, and they make the Raptor wheel that Craft Supplies carries. Cindy Drozda seems pretty excited about them. I may have to break down and get one just to see if there is any difference. The main one that I could see is on the skew chisel and that type of tool, which I am not good with.

Burrs: The burr from the CBN wheel on scrapers is far superior to the ones from standard wheels. I say this as a self proclaimed scraper psycho. I have tried the burnished burrs, and could see at best minimal performance increase, but not enough to make it worth the effort. I never used the Veritas burnishing tool. The burrs from the CBN wheel are very durable for heavy roughing of bowl blanks, and I do mean heavy duty, and if you have seen my You tube clip on turning a bowl with just scrapers, or seen me in person, you understand what I can do with them. One problem with the Veritas burnisher is that people tend to really apply a lot of pressure with them, and some times too much. Some claim that you can not burnish a burr by hand on high speed steel. Well, I use a triangle burnisher, and light pressure, and have no problem raising a good burr that is as durable as my burrs straight from the CBN wheels. When you stop to think that the tiny surface area of the edge of a triangle burnishing tool that is applied to the edge to raise a burr, that is a gazillion psi of pressure. No, it isn't because I am on the Brute Squad either.

I do need to go back to the Tormek and play some more with my gouge edges to see if I can detect any edge difference. The main problem with having it in my lathe room would be that the trough would be filled with shavings in seconds....

robo hippy

 

[Bill Boehme]

Reed, you are right about the pressure needed to raise a burr with a burnisher. I use an oval cross section burnishing tool and apply just a few ounces of pressure against the scraper. If too much pressure is used then it will just roll the burr over backwards. If that happens, the only thing to do is start over from the beginning. A rolled up burr can't even cut warm butter.

I have a Veritas burnishing tool, but I never use it -- I just feel like I can gauge the amount of force being applied to a scraper edge with a regular handheld rod type burnisher. It is easy for me to believe that there is not as much tactile feedback when using the Veritas burnishing tool.

I have one round nose scraper that is probably in the Robo class with a bevel angle somewhere between 50 and 60 degrees with a "grabby" burr that requires an "educated" touch. While I haven't turned a bowl using it, I have no doubt that I could.

I have zero experience sharpening scrapers with a CBN wheel.

 

[Jeff Gilfor]

Bill: if you have a coarse CBN wheel, you really should try sharpening the scrapers on it. Really does raise a very good relatively long lasting burr.

 

[robo hippy]

I did manage to grab Jimmy Clewes for a few seconds in Phoenix and ask him if he had ever tried the burr from a CBN wheel. He is one of those who prefer an upside down sharpening for his scrapers. He feels that the down ward cutting of the wheel drags off a bigger burr. I have felt that with the cutting edge on top, it is almost a burnishing effect. I have tried the upside down sharpening, and the burr is comparable, but not better that I could feel, and for sure, not as durable. Well, Jimmy had said he had just gotten a CBN wheel, and was going to experiment with it in his classed this week.

robo hippy

 

[James Seyfried]

I have had a Tormek for a few years. My only complaint is that the jig to sharpen gouges wouldn’t accurately replicate the Ellsworth grind. Along with trying the suggested setting from the Tormek manual I tried several adjustments. It will get it close but when comparing using the tool with one ground with the Ellsworth jig, to me there is a big difference. I think with the Tormek the wings are too straight.

I have solved that problem now by adding the Wolverine grinding jig. I also have a slow speed grinder so I bought the jig to use with that and got an extra base for the Tormek. I had to make some adjustments to the dimensions from the Ellsworth jig instructions so that it would clear the water tray. I notched the Tormek base a little to make room for the Wolverine base. I also had to make a little extension block to get the settings right.



Seems to work well so far. I also know that Don Geiger has a version of the vertical solution gig that will work with the Tormek...that may be a better way to go.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I have had a Tormek for a few years. My only complaint is that the jig to sharpen gouges wouldn’t accurately replicate the Ellsworth grind....

Was there an interference issue that made it necessary to raise the V notch up higher than the Wolverine V?

I have been able to use the Tormek jig to replicate the grind made with the Ellsworth jig. I have first sharpened with the Ellsworth jig on a dry grinder then painted the bevel with a Sharpie and then using the Tormek jig, I have come up with settings that enables the grind to perfectly matches the bevel. Of course, we need to keep in mind that any jig only controls the angle. The shape is entirely the responsibility of the person doing the grinding. This is true regardless of the jig or grinder. It is possible to either get beautiful consistent results or make a mess of the tool with any grinding jig. However, the Tormek jig does run into a problem at the far back edge of one of the wings because the support bar is in the way. It isn't a big deal, but I have intended for many years to modify my Tormek with a notch to accommodate the arm of the Ellsworth jig. Maybe I will actually do it before too many more years go by.

 

[James Seyfried]

Was there an interference issue that made it necessary to raise the V notch up higher than the Wolverine V?

Yes, the tool and or the Ellsworth jig hit the water tray using the Wolverine V.

I have been able to use the Tormek jig to replicate the grind made with the Ellsworth jig...

That's good to know! Would you mind sharing the settings you came up with? I too have tried the method you described, but when I get the angle right for the nose the angle on the sides would be off slightly. I have tried changes with all three variables, but mostly worked with changing the setting of the jig angle. I also understand what you are saying about the shape being controlled by the person doing the grinding and that may be my problem. However, I'm able to get the shape correct with the Ellsworth jig. So this is a bit of a mystery to me that I'd like to solve.

 

[bowlman]

CBN wheels

Somewhere on youtube (don't remember where) I saw a Wolverine adaptation that allows you to use the Tormek woodturners' gouge sharpening jig on the Wplverine. Can anybody shed some light on this? I'd love to know more and perhaps get one to try out.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Somewhere on youtube (don't remember where) I saw a Wolverine adaptation that allows you to use the Tormek woodturners' gouge sharpening jig on the Wplverine. Can anybody shed some light on this? I'd love to know more and perhaps get one to try out.

I don't know about that, but Tormek sells the base that holds the bar and it can be mounted on a block so that the bar and jigs can be used with the dry grinder. They "announced" a year or so back that they are now selling a fixture that allows the Tormek jigs to be used with a dry grinder. Maybe it was more like a discovery of a marketing opportunity since they have been selling the necessary parts all along.

If there is anything that works with the Wolverine, it would need to hold the bar or something similar that holds the jigs. There would be some problems to iron out if doing things that way such as having a bar that allows the jigs to to slide without interference.

 

[James Seyfried]

I have been able to use the Tormek jig to replicate the grind made with the Ellsworth jig.

Is there any Tormek users out there willing to share the settings to replicate the grind made with the Ellsworth jig?. I know the settings in the instruction manual do not work. I have figured out how to adapt the Wolverine jig, but it is always good to have options.

Thanks!

 

[Bill Boehme]

Is there any Tormek users out there willing to share the settings to replicate the grind made with the Ellsworth jig?. I know the settings in the instruction manual do not work. I have figured out how to adapt the Wolverine jig, but it is always good to have options.

Thanks!

I don't know if these are the settings in the manual, but here is what I use on my two Crown Ellsworth bowl gouges and it works perfectly. I can't see any difference between this and what I get with the Ellsworth jig. α = 65°, JS = 6 and P = 2 15/16".

I use a different setting for my Sorby and my Thompson bowl gouges. They have a narrower flute than the flute on the Crown Ellsworth bowl gouge. Here are my settings for my Sorby and Thompson bowl gouges: α = 60°, JS = 4.5 and P = 2 ⅞".

I read the jig markings as they are defined in the manual. Jeff Farris, the US Tormek distributor somehow got things backwards and is not about to admit it. The jig setting numbers correspond to the bottom of the notches and not the high spots. If you listen to Jeff, trying to get the grind right might be a problem.

Here is a quick snapshot that I just made of my Crown Ellsworth bowl gouge sharpened on the Tormek.