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Carter and son bowl gouge flute shape?

Brent Wells

Brent Wells

Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
24
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2
Location
Akron, ohio
I am curious what shape flute the carter and sons bowl gouges come with, u, v or parabolic? I have looked on their website but didn't see anything about flute shape. If you have one I would love to know. I am looking for a top quality parabolic flute shape. I like Thompson but he does not offer a parabolic flute.

Thanks.

Brent
 
Brent Wells said:
I am curious what shape flute the carter and sons bowl gouges come with, u, v or parabolic? I have looked on their website but didn't see anything about flute shape. If you have one I would love to know. I am looking for a top quality parabolic flute shape. I like Thompson but he does not offer a parabolic flute. Thanks. Brent
Click to expand...

I like the gouge Thompson makes for Lyle Jamieson. It takes the Ellsworth grind well.
It has become my favorite gouge. It has the parabolic flute. You have to buy it from Lyle.
I bought mine unhandled.


The Henry Taylor artisan gouge ( m2) Craft supplies sells is fine tool for about half the cost of the Jamieson.
 
Brent Wells said:
I am curious what shape flute the carter and sons bowl gouges come with, u, v or parabolic? I have looked on their website but didn't see anything about flute shape. If you have one I would love to know. I am looking for a top quality parabolic flute shape. I like Thompson but he does not offer a parabolic flute.

Thanks.

Brent
Click to expand...

Brent, you can clearly see the flute shape if you watch their video on sharpening the 5/8" bowl gouge. I would say that it is a very broad U shape. I wasn't impressed with the sharpening job that they did in the video. There was a big dip on both sides of the nose -- a common beginner mistake. I also don't care about their solid aluminum handle either. I turn outdoors so in cold weather my hands would freeze and in the summer it would be like picking up a hot horseshoe. D-Way sells M42 HSS bowl gouges for a lot less than Carter's price.
 
The flute shape is identical to the D Way gouges. It is a bit more 'closed' than the Thompson V. The Thompson gouges have a bit more meat in the bottom of the gouge. Perhaps another way to describe it is that the flutes are not cut as deep as the D Way. Both work. Edge holding ability is identical as far as I can tell. I don't like that shape of handle, or the metal, I prefer straight cylinder of wood.

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
The flute shape is identical to the D Way gouges. It is a bit more 'closed' than the Thompson V. The Thompson gouges have a bit more meat in the bottom of the gouge. Perhaps another way to describe it is that the flutes are not cut as deep as the D Way. Both work. Edge holding ability is identical as far as I can tell. I don't like that shape of handle, or the metal, I prefer straight cylinder of wood.

robo hippy
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It was hard to tell from watching Dave's video, but I had the impression that the flute wasn't quite as broad in the bottom as the Carter flute. However, it's possible that both the D-Way and the Carter come from the same source since they are both M42 cobalt HSS. I don't know how much the difference matters between high vanadium toughness and high cobalt hardness when the material being cut is wood. Obviously, the guys who make and sell these tools believe that their material is superior.
 
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Brent Wells said:
I am curious what shape flute the carter and sons bowl gouges come with, u, v or parabolic? I have looked on their website but didn't see anything about flute shape. If you have one I would love to know. I am looking for a top quality parabolic flute shape. I like Thompson but he does not offer a parabolic flute.

Thanks.

Brent
Click to expand...

If you would like a picture of a D-way, I can post one. I have his 3/8" and 1/2" bowl gouges (plus a spindle gouge and bottom-of-the-bowl <mini-gloat🙄>).
 
Bill, PM sent.

The gouge that shattered, pretty much fractured down the middle of the flute along the entire length of the flute. Not knowing much about metal other than being able to grind and sharpen, I don't know positively, but agreed that there was most likely a problem with the blank before it was made into a gouge. Never seen that one before.

robo hippy
 
Bill Blasic said:
I wonder why the tools are exactly the same as the D Way tools? Has anyone asked Dave or Carters?
Click to expand...

You can check with Dave, he will tell you.

From talking with Dave, my understanding is, before Carter & Son existed "& Son" was getting turning lessons from Dave while "Carter" sat in Dave's office.
 
Ver-r-r-ry interesting . . .

I see that D-Way bowl gouges are hardened to HRC64 to 66 while the Carter bowl gouges are hardened to HRC68. Is it possible that the hardness of the Carter gouges might be too hard ... perhaps even brittle? I think that Thompson tools have a hardness of about HRC 63.
 
Going to the source...

The speculative nature of this thread may sow the seeds for internet "facts" that are incorrect and troublesome to the tool makers. Click here for the contact page for Dave Schweitzer, I'm sure he will answer any questions about his tools promptly.
 
Jamie Straw said:
The speculative nature of this thread may sow the seeds for internet "facts" that are incorrect and troublesome to the tool makers. Click here for the contact page for Dave Schweitzer, I'm sure he will answer any questions about his tools promptly.
Click to expand...

Very good point, Jamie. Discussions sometimes do get carried away when real facts and Internet "facts get merged together and lead to creating harmful rumors.

If somebody asks a question about a product that you have used, it is perfectly acceptable to share your experiences, both good and bad. But (this is the hard part) we need to remind ourselves to be fair and remain objective in what we say because one persons opinion isn't necessarily the final word.
 
Given that the information comes from a discussion with Dave I'd say it goes beyond speculation. We have had other threads on copycat products. This is a way to inform each other of what we know.
 
Douglas Ladendorf said:
Given that the information comes from a discussion with Dave I'd say it goes beyond speculation. We have had other threads on copycat products. This is a way to inform each other of what we know.
Click to expand...

I was primarily reminding myself to not cross the line. 🙄
 
Carter & Son bowl gouges

I have a couple of Carter & Son bowl gouges. I like my Thompsons and D-Way gouges much more. The Carter & Son gouges feel a little light weight as compared to others, plus they don't seem to hold an edge as long.
Joe
 
diverjoe said:
I have a couple of Carter & Son bowl gouges. I like my Thompsons and D-Way gouges much more. The Carter & Son gouges feel a little light weight as compared to others, plus they don't seem to hold an edge as long.
Joe
Click to expand...

Do you see a difference in flute shape or depth when comparing the Carter gouges to the D-Way gouges?
 
Jamie Straw said:
The speculative nature of this thread may sow the seeds for internet "facts" that are incorrect and troublesome to the tool makers. Click here for the contact page for Dave Schweitzer, I'm sure he will answer any questions about his tools promptly.
Click to expand...


Well, other the Dave telling all of us the story at our club picnic at Dan Ackerman's, at a couple club meetings and a Madrone burl delivery at Dave's house.

Maybe you were not present at any of those.
 
Bill Boehme said:
Ver-r-r-ry interesting . . .

I see that D-Way bowl gouges are hardened to HRC64 to 66 while the Carter bowl gouges are hardened to HRC68. Is it possible that the hardness of the Carter gouges might be too hard ... perhaps even brittle? I think that Thompson tools have a hardness of about HRC 63.
Click to expand...

Dave mentioned to me that he thought any harder then 66 increased the chances of the tool breaking too much.

Of course Dave has also had tools break, but I've seen nothing like that Carter & Son's tool break that was posted a few weeks ago (from any tool manufacturer). That one was, odd.
 
n7bsn said:
Well, other the Dave telling all of us the story at our club picnic at Dan Ackerman's, at a couple club meetings and a Madrone burl delivery at Dave's house.

Maybe you were not present at any of those.
Click to expand...

Madrone burl delivery, you say? This story seems to be taking some interesting turns. Is there a Maltese Falcon involved in this somewhere?
 
n7bsn said:
Well, other the Dave telling all of us the story at our club picnic at Dan Ackerman's, at a couple club meetings and a Madrone burl delivery at Dave's house.

Maybe you were not present at any of those.
Click to expand...

Nope, those events must have taken place during the 5 years I wasn't woodworking.🙁 Speaking of burl deliveries, there's another one coming up, right? I haven't signed up yet, but it sounds like fun. I've never bought wood "by the pound" and burl would be a new experience, but looking forward to it. Last time I was at his place, December methinks, I picked up a big hunk of quilted maple.🙂
 
I don't know about burl by weight having never bought any. I was at an AAW symposium once and they had burls for sale and all were very wet. I asked the guy how much and he said $14 a pound. I asked for 2 lbs and he walked off. 🙂 I thought it was like buying candy and that was all I could afford. If he was smart he would have tossed me a wine stopper blank and said here ya go.
 
john lucas said:
I don't know about burl by weight having never bought any. I was at an AAW symposium once and they had burls for sale and all were very wet. I asked the guy how much and he said $14 a pound. I asked for 2 lbs and he walked off. 🙂 I thought it was like buying candy and that was all I could afford. If he was smart he would have tossed me a wine stopper blank and said here ya go.
Click to expand...


We pay a $1.25/lb, of course the wood is raw & wet (about 50% water by weight). A 1-ft by 1-ft cube of Madrone at this point weights about 70 lb.

Of course after that we have to cut the "chunk" down to usable sizes, core the bowl blanks, boil for about an hour per inch of thickness (a 3 inch peppermill blanks has to boil for 3 or 4 hours)

Then we have to let it dry.
 
Fresh madrone sinks in water, and not slowly.... NEVER buy a 'dry' madrone burl. It may look nice on the outside, but is shattered on the inside. Most fun for us warp-a-holics. Very 3 D.

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
Fresh madrone sinks in water, and not slowly.... NEVER buy a 'dry' madrone burl. It may look nice on the outside, but is shattered on the inside. Most fun for us warp-a-holics. Very 3 D.

robo hippy
Click to expand...

You said it.... (Robo warped.... who'da thought) 🙄

emm... also on a personal note (looking at my avatar) we lost Dandi last week, she would have been 16 today.
 
n7bsn said:
We pay a $1.25/lb, of course the wood is raw & wet (about 50% water by weight). A 1-ft by 1-ft cube of Madrone at this point weights about 70 lb.

Of course after that we have to cut the "chunk" down to usable sizes, core the bowl blanks, boil for about an hour per inch of thickness (a 3 inch peppermill blanks has to boil for 3 or 4 hours)

Then we have to let it dry.
Click to expand...

One of the mainstay turners at our meeting Wednesday told me that if she and her husband get a bunch of fresh Madrona, they keep any pieces they can't turn right away submerged in water until they can get to them.

I think I heard Russell say that there's support to help burl buyers get their stuff "chunked down" in a timely fashion. That's reassuring! If a 12"x12" cube weighs 70#, I think I'll put in for 40#. The big challenge will be getting there early enough to get some decent choice, from what I hear.😀
 
Jamie Straw said:
One of the mainstay turners at our meeting Wednesday told me that if she and her husband get a bunch of fresh Madrona, they keep any pieces they can't turn right away submerged in water until they can get to them.
Click to expand...

That might be my dear wife.....
 
robo hippy said:
Sorry to hear about the loss of your 'lap pal'... Love that one, a palindrome.....

robo hippy
Click to expand...

The only house pet left from when you were visiting is the Lotti-dog, I guess that's the result of having mostly elder critters.

We are also down to two feral cats, I think there were 5 in the colony two years ago.
 
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