Can you boil powder post beetles?

[Steven Forrest]

I have a blank of bay laurel that has pretty significant, active powder post beetle activity (fresh dust piles). I knew they could be heat treated in a kiln, but I don't have one. It's pretty big for our freezer, but in a pinch, I could try that.
I thought I'd boil it, and that's where it is as I type. But when I looked up actually boiling wood for PP beetles, I can't fine anything authoritative, or really anything at all. It's basically not mentioned. Does anyone have any evidence-based knowledge about the effect (or lack of effect) of boiling on PP beetles? Thanks.

 

[Michael Anderson]

I don’t have anything empirical about the effect of boiling for PPB extermination. Though, I will say that depending on the size of your blank, you will need to ensure the wood is boiled for many hours. I think I remember reading that it takes one hour for heat to penetrate each inch of wood thickness. PPB need to be exposed to prolonged temps above 140F to be killed (eggs maybe higher/longer). I suspect boiling will be effective.

You could also fumigate in a sealed container?

 

[Michael Nathal]

I have had success with putting the piece in a black vinyl trash bag and about a cup of acetone (or lacquer thinner), seal the bag and wait a week. The black vinyl is resistant to those solvents.

 

[Paul Paukstelis]

Microwave? PPB larvae have a higher water content than the surrounding wood so they will heat up more significantly.

 

[Ric Taylor]

I don't know about boiling, but freezing will not kill them, in spite of many woodturners trying to kill bugs in their freezer. Think about sub-zero temperatures for months in northern Canada and northern Europe. The bugs in trees and other wood do just fine through the winter up there. Confirmed by my PHD entomologist buddy.

 

[Hugh]

Steve,
While your are doing the boiling.......go find a bug and put it into the boiling water.
I would wager good money that it kills them.
Usually, the Powder Post Beetle works the sap wood and starts on the outside and works in. As you boil the wood, the beetle heats up too. No way to escape. If you boil the wood long enough.....deep enough into the blank......dead beetles.

Now, I present a problem.........you boil the wood and it gets rid of all the Powder Post Beetles. You turn your vessel of sorts. Finish it. What is to stop the live Powder Post Beetles that are flying around to not take to the now finished bowl? And you do have Powder Post Beetles flying around where you live.

For this one reason, I do not turn Bay Laural wood.

 

[Richard Coers]

There are three stages of the powder post beetle. Egg, larvae, and adult. The only internationally accepted way kill all three is in a kiln and heated to the point where the entire block is heated all the way through the center to 133 degrees. The beetle can remain dormant for up to 12 years. It's your choice to try anything else, but only one method will guarantee the results you want. A kiln for one block of wood can be a foam cooler with a light bulb and a thermometer. Also be aware that the tiny hole on the surface means several feet of tunnels inside the block.

 

[Steven Forrest]

Thanks, folks, for all the good info. Richard, I appreciate your remark, but the fact that the studies don't mention boiling (even to dismiss it) makes me wonder if it's even been tried. And yes, I am well aware that a hole on the outside is just the tip of a very large iceberg, so to speak.
Hugh, for all the obvious activity, I didn't spy a single living soul in that blank. And re: reinfestation, first, the beetles would need to gain access to raw wood. From my reading, any finish of any kind prevents them from "tasting" the wood to see if it's suitable for egg laying.
Paul, I will try microwaving the next infested blank. (Or this one if the boiling doesn't work).
Michael N, I will keep your suggestion in the back of my mind, but if I don't have to work with intense VOCs, I'd rather not.
And Michael A, I had already rough turned the blank to an inch thickness or less. I boiled it for two hours. Presumably, that would be long enough to get the wood up over 140 degrees F for that time.
So it's a science experiment for now, with a sample size of one. I'll report back.

 

[hockenbery]

I think the boiling for 2 hours is likely to work. So does google.

I'll report back.

I’ll set my calendar for 25 October 2036 - they can be dormant 12 years

google -
“Boiling can be effective at killing wood-destroying pests like powderpost beetles. The high temperature of boiling water (100°C or 212°F) is typically sufficient to kill both the adult beetles and their larvae if they are directly exposed to the heat.”

 

[Kurt Manley]

Steve,
While your are doing the boiling.......go find a bug and put it into the boiling water.
I would wager good money that it kills them.
Usually, the Powder Post Beetle works the sap wood and starts on the outside and works in. As you boil the wood, the beetle heats up too. No way to escape. If you boil the wood long enough.....deep enough into the blank......dead beetles.

Now, I present a problem.........you boil the wood and it gets rid of all the Powder Post Beetles. You turn your vessel of sorts. Finish it. What is to stop the live Powder Post Beetles that are flying around to not take to the now finished bowl? And you do have Powder Post Beetles flying around where you live.

For this one reason, I do not turn Bay Laural wood.

Is there a higher occurrence of powder post beetles in Bay Laurel?

 

[Kirk Amidon]

I've used the kitchen oven as a kiln. Setting the temp for about 175. Put wood in cold, head up oven, cook for several hours, then turn off oven. Once cooled, remove wood. (Marinading and spices are completely optional)

 

[DON FRANK]

I certainly think boiling would kill everything in the blank because of the internal temp you will get.

 

[DON FRANK]

A second question I have is whether total emersion of the blank or log in water will do the same thing. If the log is completely submerged for a period of time will the lack of oxygen kill any internal bugs. I use this method sometimes for wood that I don't have time to properly cut up and seal. I holds indefinitely without cracking and splitting. The logs will take on some water and sink.
Bugs need oxygen to live

 

[Roger Wiegand]

If you achieve the required internal temperature (~135 deg for 4-6 hours IIRC) boiling will treat PPB effectively. I really doubt that the source of the heat matters. Higher temperatures will work more quickly, so if you actually got the temperature of the center of the wood up to 212 deg I expect the killing time will be down to minutes rather than hours, but I haven't seen data. .

 

[Alan Weinberg]

Microwave? PPB larvae have a higher water content than the surrounding wood so they will heat up more significantly.

I would think microwave to be most expeditious in getting up to temp and killing critters.

 

[robo hippy]

The power post beetles do love the California Bay Laurel wood. They seem to track it from miles away.

robo hiippy

 

[Richard Coers]

. Richard, I appreciate your remark, but the fact that the studies don't mention boiling (even to dismiss it) makes me wonder if it's even been tried.

Getting core temperature up to 133 degrees is the issue. Wood is a pretty good insulator, and the only way to prove boiling works is to instrument a piece of wood with a thermocouple and actually measure how fast the center heats up. That's what I did in my upright freezer converted to a kiln. Otherwise you are making an assumption that your method works with zero data. Worth the result of bugs and eggs in your shop with all your other wood? Your decision

 

[hughie]

Bugs in the wood whatever species I freeze em for a couple weeks at -5C below freezing point and to date its been very successful

 

[Roger Wiegand]

Bugs in the wood whatever species I freeze em for a couple weeks at -5C below freezing point and to date its been very successful

Unfortunately PPB survive quite happily for long periods of time at -20C.

 

[hughie]

Unfortunately PPB survive quite happily for long periods of time at -20C.

damn