This question is for advice on buffing wood (bowls, etc.). How far do you sand before buffing ? Do you buff before or after applying finish, I have been using Tried and True Original and varnish oil. I buffed a small bowl that I had sanded to 1500 grit and applied Tried and True Original. Buffed with tripoli then white diamond. I didn't have any carnauba wax so I used Dr Kirks goat wax, it shines better than before but not like the bowls Odie makes. Does the carnauba make a big difference ? Thanks in advance
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Buffing Wood
- Thread starter Vincent Vogel
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Not sure about Odie's process, but the Tried & True finishes can take a lot of time and multiple coats to build up a shine - also extremely thin coats following their directions for best results - a nice glossy shine can be had, but can take a month or two as you will want to give each coat time to cure before adding another coat.
I usually get a decent matte or semi-gloss finish on just one coating which I apply while the tenon is still holding the finished bowl on the lathe, I give it a thin coat and let it soak in , depending on how thirsty the wood is, maybe a second coat 10 to 15 minutes later, then after an hour, wipe off most of it and then buff it out with lathe turning at low speed (Mine bottoms out at 650 RPM) for a sort of friction polish.
After that I'll turn off the tenon and finish the foot, sand, sign, and apply finish to that, and after the 1 hour wait and final buffing by hand, it will sit for several days - I usually am happy enough with the finish (somewhere between matte and semi-gloss) to leave it as a one-coat finish, but when I want to go for extra gloss, I'll add another coat (again let it sit an hour then buff out) , let it cure a couple days and then buff some more (with a hand drill and buffing pad) - give it another couple weeks to cure, and repeat until desired gloss is had.
It is decidedly not an "instant gratification" type of finish.
I usually get a decent matte or semi-gloss finish on just one coating which I apply while the tenon is still holding the finished bowl on the lathe, I give it a thin coat and let it soak in , depending on how thirsty the wood is, maybe a second coat 10 to 15 minutes later, then after an hour, wipe off most of it and then buff it out with lathe turning at low speed (Mine bottoms out at 650 RPM) for a sort of friction polish.
After that I'll turn off the tenon and finish the foot, sand, sign, and apply finish to that, and after the 1 hour wait and final buffing by hand, it will sit for several days - I usually am happy enough with the finish (somewhere between matte and semi-gloss) to leave it as a one-coat finish, but when I want to go for extra gloss, I'll add another coat (again let it sit an hour then buff out) , let it cure a couple days and then buff some more (with a hand drill and buffing pad) - give it another couple weeks to cure, and repeat until desired gloss is had.
It is decidedly not an "instant gratification" type of finish.
Dave Landers
Beta Tester
I usually sand to about 400. Or 800 for some things (smaller decorative items, or if I can still see scratches from the 400). If I buff, it's after the finish (and after the finish has cured). Finish might be walnut oil, shellac, or lacquer depending on what finish I use 
I buff at something between 700 - 900 RPM with an 8" wheel. I skip the wax if I don't want wax.
I buff at something between 700 - 900 RPM with an 8" wheel. I skip the wax if I don't want wax.
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1. I sand native hardwoods to 320
2. Wet with Waterlox, wipe off, dry over night, sand with 400
3. Wet with Waterlox, wipe off, dry overnight
When The finish has built up buff 2-3 days later or Sand with grey scotchbrite and repeat step 3
Typically a piece wil need 4-5 coats of Waterlox.
I use the Tripoli and white diamond and usually the carnuba.
Some topical hardwoods need higher grit sanding.
You can’t see 220 marks sanded with the grain in most native hardwoods
Ebony you can see the sanding scratches from 800
Typically when I buff I will have 3-4 pieces to buff so each gets its turn with each wheel.
2. Wet with Waterlox, wipe off, dry over night, sand with 400
3. Wet with Waterlox, wipe off, dry overnight
When The finish has built up buff 2-3 days later or Sand with grey scotchbrite and repeat step 3
Typically a piece wil need 4-5 coats of Waterlox.
I use the Tripoli and white diamond and usually the carnuba.
Some topical hardwoods need higher grit sanding.
You can’t see 220 marks sanded with the grain in most native hardwoods
Ebony you can see the sanding scratches from 800
Typically when I buff I will have 3-4 pieces to buff so each gets its turn with each wheel.
When I’ve used Tried & True finishes, it was purposely to get a more matte finish (e.g., something handled often). For high gloss, I use lacquer.
Re sanding, I agree with Al Hockenbery.
Re sanding, I agree with Al Hockenbery.
Since I've never used Dr. Kirks GOAT wax, I can't draw any comparison to carnauba wax. I can say that when using the Beall buff method, there is a technique to applying the Tripoli, White Diamond, and carnauba wax that works best. It's a natural tendency to push too hard against the buffing wheel, and this is pretty much "forcing" performance, rather than "allowing" performance. In my observations, it appears that "allowing" the compounds and wax to do their job, results in a finer overall finish......even though it might take a little longer to do it that way.
As far as what grit of sandpaper to work up to, prior to buffing......well, if all blocks of wood were the same, then you could standardize the answer. For some woods, 600gt on the lathe is good to go. For a greater portion of woods, it requires 600gt random orbit sanding by hand to get rid of all the concentric 600gt scratches. For a few woods, a higher grit is necessary. When this is the case, I've used Norton A275 sheet abrasive in 800gt and 1000gt......and recently added micromesh 1500gt to the possible solutions.
My bowls go through a series of three separate inspections.....and they are prior to applying the Danish oil, after the Danish oil has thoroughly dried, and once more before going to the Beall buff method. It's amazing how some scratches are undetectable prior to applying the Danish oil, but are apparent later. There are times when I don't see them until the 3rd inspection.....so, that's why there is a third inspection!
The best way to see exactly where some follow-up random orbit sanding is required, is to use a bright light, and look straight into the direct reflection of the light. At this point, we're getting into the realm of a very refined finish, so it becomes necessary to train yourself to see the imperfections......because they are easy to miss.
-----odie-----
If I want a true gloss finish, solvent lacquerbuilt up and sanded back until fully level, then buffed out with automotive polishes. Wood sanded to ~ 400 gr, as the lacquer fills in scratches.
Most of my work gets poly thinned 1:1, applied like DO - flood on, keep wet for ~30 min, wipe dry. Final wood sanding with 800 gr, random orbit. Typically no sanding after finish is applied. Finish is allowed to completely cure (sniff test), then buffed similar to Beal method. End with carnauba wax. The gloss of the final finish is determined by how long the last finest compound is used and how much wax is built up.
All my sanding/finishing/buffing is done mounted on the lathe. The last thing is remove the tenon, sign, finish inside the foot.
Most of my work gets poly thinned 1:1, applied like DO - flood on, keep wet for ~30 min, wipe dry. Final wood sanding with 800 gr, random orbit. Typically no sanding after finish is applied. Finish is allowed to completely cure (sniff test), then buffed similar to Beal method. End with carnauba wax. The gloss of the final finish is determined by how long the last finest compound is used and how much wax is built up.
All my sanding/finishing/buffing is done mounted on the lathe. The last thing is remove the tenon, sign, finish inside the foot.
When I’ve used Tried & True finishes, it was purposely to get a more matte finish (e.g., something handled often). For high gloss, I use lacquer.
Re sanding, I agree with Al Hockenbery.
Re sanding, I agree with Al Hockenbery.
All buffing compounds are carried in a block of wax. If you buff before finishing, some finishes will not stick.
For me using micro mesh in addition to sanding is the Beall of bare wood. You should go through all the grits to get the real effect of using mocro mesh. Going just a few is only “scratching” the surface as to what it can accomplish.
Buffing, well I use the standard brown common garden abrasive blocks on a calico or linen buffing wheel and after finishing sometimes go to the white diamond. I find sanding here is important I will inertia sand to around 320 or 400 and buff from there. Pretty much everything in the photo gallery has been done this way.
First thanks to everyone for their input. I got a buff for wax and a stick of carnauba. This definitely improved the gloss. I have done some research and found tripoli to be about 800 to 1000 white diamond about 1500 to 1800 grit, so probably no need to go past 800 grit paper if using this system. Also good tip about the compounds in a wax carrier so that would mean buff after the finish not before. I understand the fact that different wood behaves differently to finishes. I did a hickory bowl and sanded to 1500 grit paper and put Tried and True original on it and it came out with a really nice matte finish. I've found that waiting a couple days between coats of T&T helps and it's correct that it isn't an instant gratification finish it takes about a month to totally cure. Thanks again.
This bowl was sanded to 10000 grit and I finished it with Kustom Creations Kustom Grit two step finish. Step 1 is 50K polishing paste and Step 2 is 120K polishing pasteI tend to favor a hybrid of Tried and True products, after sanding to 600 or 800 grit. For the inside, I like to use the Tried and True original with beeswax, as it tends to prevent water penetration. For the outside, I tend to use T&T Varnish Oil. Three coats work best, and it can take 48 hour+ between coats (and 0000 steel wool) to harden well. After third coat of Varnish Oil cures, I then buff it on the Beall system. It gets a nice luster. I don't worry about buffing the inside: it is the part that is used most often, and the part that will need replenishing soonest.