Broke my own rule

[Emiliano Achaval]

On another thread here, "Common sense" I said how we all have a gut feeling an inner voice that warns us about danger, or something that is not right. The problem is that when you just got started in woodturning, you might not know what is dangerous. Yesterday, I was turning a MIlo bowl. There was a piece of bark, looked good, so I decided to leave it, part of it was showing in the spigot. My inner voice told me "I don't like it" An overconfident cocky voice said: you got half a spigot, you can do it, take your time, it will be ok. Don't ,said the gut feeling. Well, I went ahead and started hollowing the inside. Within a few minutes, the bowl came off the lathe, 100% spigot failure. I was going at around 800 rpm. I'm never on the line of fire, ever. But somehow, the bowl hit my arm. I got about 4 gashes, 2 of them required stitches, 9 altogether. I always teach to listen to your gut feeling. I'm going to add do not listen to the overconfident getting too big for your britches voice on the other shoulder. A bit of humble pie is good to remind me that what we do can be and is dangerous. I will spare you the gory pictures, if you want to see those, look me up in Facebook and or Instagram. Here I will add the picture of the tenon, I could see that I had maybe 60 % solid wood on it, what I didnt know, what I could not see, was the bark under it, I underestimated the entire situation. I took a rare break from turning today, I enjoyed it, I grabbed my Nikon D850 with a Nikkor 105mm lens and did quite a bit of Macro photography.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Could you post the picture showing before the tenon broke that you emailed me yesterday? It gave me a case of the willies just seeing it. Learning from our mistakes is good, but learning from other people's mistakes is even better. Hopefully, this will remind me not to get too big for my britches.

A large piece of spinning wood has a huge amount of kinetic energy when it comes off the lathe and our comparatively soft bodies are no match when the two cross paths. I would like to address a misconception concerning the "line of fire". Many turners assume that they are safe if they are standing outside that zone. Unfortunately, that is not true. The line of fire zone statistically represents the greatest probability of being struck by a piece of wood flying off the lathe, but there is rarely a clean separation. The wood has the potential of going in any direction after bouncing off the chuck/tool rest/headstock/anything else in the vicinity. Keep in mind that your face shield only protects you from small particles. It's no match for something large.

 

[Odie]

@Emiliano Achaval

If that tenon was as solid as it looked on the broken piece, you would have been ok.....I can understand how you came to give it a try.

===================================

I had an "incident" within the last week. I was turning and was holding a gouge in my left hand and about an inch off the top of the tool rest. I looked away for an instant, and you can probably guess what happened!

The tip of the gouge barely touched the spinning bowl, and slammed it against the tool rest. The damage to the bowl wasn't that bad, but this created a pretty good dent in the top of the tool rest. I haven't put a dent like this in one of my tool rests for years. I believe I did this before sometime in the last year, or so. You would think I would have learned my lesson by now!

The solution is to PAY ATTENTION to what I'm doing!

-----odie-----

 

[hockenbery]

was turning and was holding a gouge in my left hand and about an inch off the top of the tool rest. I

we have all done that. I have two memorable incidents where students were waving the gouge around.

1. a student I had about 6 months before asked me to show him how to core with the McNaughton. He did 2 cores and was roughing the big one. Turned to ask me something waved the gouge around. Gouge slammed into the tool rest.- he then asked “was that a catch? I never got one before”

2. had three students in a 3 day bowl class. They were all finishing the last cuts on the inside bottom of really nice natural edge bowls. I’m standing off to the side proud of how well they are doing. The spell got broken when one waved his gouge around and blew up his bowl. The student one lathe over stopped to look without turning his lathe off and unbelievably let his gouge touch the bowl blowing it up. In less than 10 seconds two gorgeous bowls shattered. The walls were thin so no dangerous weight in the air. Student three kept his head down and finished a great looking bowl while the other two tried to find all the pieces from theirs.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Could you post the picture showing before the tenon broke that you emailed me yesterday? It gave me a case of the willies just seeing it. Learning from our mistakes is good, but learning from other people's mistakes is even better. Hopefully, this will remind me not to get too big for my britches.

A large piece of spinning wood has a huge amount of kinetic energy when it comes off the lathe and our comparatively soft bodies are no match when the two cross paths. I would like to address a misconception concerning the "line of fire". Many turners assume that they are safe if they are standing outside that zone. Unfortunately, that is not true. The line of fire zone statistically represents the greatest probability of being struck by a piece of wood flying off the lathe, but there is rarely a clean separation. The wood has the potential of going in any direction after bouncing off the chuck/tool rest/headstock/anything else in the vicinity. Keep in mind that your face shield only protects you from small particles. It's no match for something large.

Here it is.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Doug Thompson sent me a 5/8 Bill Grumbine bowl gouge. I think that so far I have hit the spinning work, by accident of course, 3 times. Bill's gouge is the longest gouge I have ever owned. I love it, I just had to get used to it. I have this gouge and a few others with Doug's handles and the Jimmy Clewes quick couplers, a great combination.

 

[hockenbery]

Here it is.

It looks like a solid tenon from that view.
I’ve turned quite a few bowls with tenors like that.
I might well have tried turning it too.
However I can see why I should know there is bark under the tenon.

Doing a post mortem from the photo I can see the thin sap ring that runs along the bark. Outlined in red. If you really pay attention to that tiny sap ring as runs around the tenon, then you would suspect there would be bark on the other side of it..

not sure I would notice that while turning
if I didn’t see it when cutting the blank. One of my faults is trusting my my blank cutting more than I should sometimes.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

It looks like a solid tenon from that view.
I’ve turned quite a few bowls with tenors like that.
I might well have tried turning it too.
However I can see why I should know there is bark under the tenon.

Doing a post mortem from the photo I can see the thin sap ring that runs along the bark. Outlined in red. If you really pay attention to that tiny sap ring as runs around the tenon, then you would suspect there would be bark on the other side of it..

not sure I would notice that while turning
if I didn’t see it when cutting the blank. One of my faults is trusting my my blank cutting more than I should sometimes.
View attachment 35999

Thank you Al for taking the time to help me and others learn from this mistake. Personally, I will never turn a bowl ever again if the tenon is not 100% safe and good looking. If you follow me on Facebook, you know I had my F350 loaded to the gills with Milo. What was I doing trying to maximize the size when I have so much wood?

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I usually try to find a name for my work. When I was at Arrowmont, I realized why is so hard to come up with a name, and a story, it can be so complex that it is something you study in College, LOL Sitting next to me on one of the evening talks, my good friend Emmet Kane. He leans over and told me that for him, one of the biggest incentives for motivation is a deadline, LOL
Well, I had no problem finding a name for the Milo bowl that flew off the lathe: Firewood. I put it back on the lathe today. I was thinking of finishing it tomorrow. But I think that he will be firewood. Take a look, let me know what you think.

 

[Bill Boehme]

.... I had an "incident" within the last week. I was turning and was holding a gouge in my left hand and about an inch off the top of the tool rest. I looked away for an instant, and you can probably guess what happened!

Statistics say that 97% of all woodturners have done that and the other 3% are liars.

I'm a slow learner ... I have probably done that three or four times. It sure does get your attention.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I usually try to find a name for my work. When I was at Arrowmont, I realized why is so hard to come up with a name, and a story, it can be so complex that it is something you study in College, LOL Sitting next to me on one of the evening talks, my good friend Emmet Kane. He leans over and told me that for him, one of the biggest incentives for motivation is a deadline, LOL
Well, I had no problem finding a name for the Milo bowl that flew off the lathe: Firewood. I put it back on the lathe today. I was thinking of finishing it tomorrow. But I think that he will be firewood. Take a look, let me know what you think.

I would name it "Uncontrolled Wildfire".

 

[Russ Braun]

I like to finish every piece that cuts me; I always win! Instead of firewood; name it metamorphous and turn it into something else! That pile of wood can wait; it’s the principle!!

 

[Tom Beatty]

Since you probably don’t need more firewood , maybe you should hang it in your shop wall as a reminder

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Yes. Hang it on the wall with the before picture and keep it as a reminder and lesson for students. And as to a name, "Broken Rule".

 

[Bob Sheppard]

Glad you're OK, Emiliano, and will live to turn another day.
Years ago, I read a study on job site accidents. Most accidents are with people just starting out, and don't know the dangers. But a large number is with people who have been on the job a long time, have gotten a little cocky, and don't listen to that "voice". I admit I sometimes get wrapped up in what I'm doing, and don't listen to the voice.
Thanks for the story. I hope it will encourage others to examine what they're doing before something goes wrong.

 

[Karl Loeblein]

I usually try to find a name for my work. When I was at Arrowmont, I realized why is so hard to come up with a name, and a story, it can be so complex that it is something you study in College, LOL Sitting next to me on one of the evening talks, my good friend Emmet Kane. He leans over and told me that for him, one of the biggest incentives for motivation is a deadline, LOL
Well, I had no problem finding a name for the Milo bowl that flew off the lathe: Firewood. I put it back on the lathe today. I was thinking of finishing it tomorrow. But I think that he will be firewood. Take a look, let me know what you think.

Keep pics for your wall, but this pretty piece of wood deserves to be finished after cutting a new tenon. Maybe a shallow ogee shape would work here. I’d also keep the name ‘firewood’ on the piece as a conversation starter for telling your story.

 

[Tom Gall]

@Emiliano Achaval

I had an "incident" within the last week. I was turning and was holding a gouge in my left hand and about an inch off the top of the tool rest. I looked away for an instant, and you can probably guess what happened!

The tip of the gouge barely touched the spinning bowl, and slammed it against the tool rest. The damage to the bowl wasn't that bad, but this created a pretty good dent in the top of the tool rest. I haven't put a dent like this in one of my tool rests for years. I believe I did this before sometime in the last year, or so. You would think I would have learned my lesson by now!

The solution is to PAY ATTENTION to what I'm doing!

-----odie-----

I can relate......I've blown up a few over the years. I don't ever recall blowing one up while actually turning the bowl, but doing something stupid like leaving the tool on the rest while reaching for the off switch...BAM!!!

 

[Gary Beasley]

I think you could probably shift your center over an inch or so and retain some depth at the expense of diameter. Either way it looks salvageable.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Glad you're OK, Emiliano, and will live to turn another day.
Years ago, I read a study on job site accidents. Most accidents are with people just starting out, and don't know the dangers. But a large number is with people who have been on the job a long time, have gotten a little cocky, and don't listen to that "voice". I admit I sometimes get wrapped up in what I'm doing, and don't listen to the voice.
Thanks for the story. I hope it will encourage others to examine what they're doing before something goes wrong.

A good friend told me, it was a good reminder that you should not get too big for your britches. In Argentina we say your hat might not fit anymore, your head got too big, LOL. I have to agree, I had too much confidence. I was back at it and I have to admit, I felt like when I had a huge car wreck, almost died, and it took me a while to feel relax behind the wheel for a while.

 

[robo hippy]

Looking at the before picture, I wouldn't have tried it because the bark runs all the way under.... Glad you survived...

robo hippy

 

[Brian Horais]

On another thread here, "Common sense" I said how we all have a gut feeling an inner voice that warns us about danger, or something that is not right. The problem is that when you just got started in woodturning, you might not know what is dangerous. Yesterday, I was turning a MIlo bowl. There was a piece of bark, looked good, so I decided to leave it, part of it was showing in the spigot. My inner voice told me "I don't like it" An overconfident cocky voice said: you got half a spigot, you can do it, take your time, it will be ok. Don't ,said the gut feeling. Well, I went ahead and started hollowing the inside. Within a few minutes, the bowl came off the lathe, 100% spigot failure. I was going at around 800 rpm. I'm never on the line of fire, ever. But somehow, the bowl hit my arm. I got about 4 gashes, 2 of them required stitches, 9 altogether. I always teach to listen to your gut feeling. I'm going to add do not listen to the overconfident getting too big for your britches voice on the other shoulder. A bit of humble pie is good to remind me that what we do can be and is dangerous. I will spare you the gory pictures, if you want to see those, look me up in Facebook and or Instagram. Here I will add the picture of the tenon, I could see that I had maybe 60 % solid wood on it, what I didnt know, what I could not see, was the bark under it, I underestimated the entire situation. I took a rare break from turning today, I enjoyed it, I grabbed my Nikon D850 with a Nikkor 105mm lens and did quite a bit of Macro photography.

View attachment 35993

Yes, we all have those voices and in many cases there are no consequences for ignoring them. Then WHAM, something happens that you knew was a possibility and you are humbled and sometimes bear the bodily marks of your decision not to listen to the voices. I was turning some spindles on a therming rig, using a Thompson 3/8 inch bowl gouge to 'clean out' the edges where there was a sharp corner. The voice said something like 'there's a better tool to do that', but I decided I was in control and could handle it. When turning on a therming rig there is a lot of air and you are turning shadows. Somehow I managed to lift the tool off the rest when I was adjusting the cut and quicker than I could blink it slammed down on the tool rest and shattered into pieces (see the picture). This was the first turning tool I have broken, and it broke like glass. You can see in the picture that the pieces fit back together nearly perfectly. I've worked with high strength steel before in my prior life as an engineer and have seen it shatter like glass. Still, this took me by surprise. Thankfully I was not in the line of fire and was not hit by the steel projectiles. I guess this now makes me a more willing to 'listen to the voices'.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Looking at the before picture, I wouldn't have tried it because the bark runs all the way under.... Glad you survived...

robo hippy

That’s exactly what my gut told me! I just got too big for my britches, to quote a good friend, and he was right, a good reminder that I’m a mere mortal.

 

[Tom Beatty]

I have found that most of my catches come after I have finished and get careless in moving my tool away from turning

 

[Dean Center]

Do the voices in your head speak in Spanish? Does Jiminy Cricket translate? ("let your conscience be your guide")

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Do the voices in your head speak in Spanish? Does Jiminy Cricket translate? ("let your conscience be your guide")

After so many years, it has become confusing, it is not uncommon to speak Spanish to an American friend, and English to an Argentina. Especially after a few adult beverages, LOL

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I have found that most of my catches come after I have finished and get careless in moving my tool away from turning

If the tool touches the work while removing it, I would not call it a catch. I have been using a Doug Thompson, Bill Grumbine 5/8 bowl gouge. This gouge is almost twice as long as the other gouges. I did just what you say, twice. That is the best way to learn how not to do it.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Yes, we all have those voices and in many cases there are no consequences for ignoring them. Then WHAM, something happens that you knew was a possibility and you are humbled and sometimes bear the bodily marks of your decision not to listen to the voices. I was turning some spindles on a therming rig, using a Thompson 3/8 inch bowl gouge to 'clean out' the edges where there was a sharp corner. The voice said something like 'there's a better tool to do that', but I decided I was in control and could handle it. When turning on a therming rig there is a lot of air and you are turning shadows. Somehow I managed to lift the tool off the rest when I was adjusting the cut and quicker than I could blink it slammed down on the tool rest and shattered into pieces (see the picture). This was the first turning tool I have broken, and it broke like glass. You can see in the picture that the pieces fit back together nearly perfectly. I've worked with high strength steel before in my prior life as an engineer and have seen it shatter like glass. Still, this took me by surprise. Thankfully I was not in the line of fire and was not hit by the steel projectiles. I guess this now makes me a more willing to 'listen to the voices'.

I have the Vermec and the Vicmarc offset chucks. I have used them several times, but an inner voice tells me this could be dicey, LOL. I admired your work greatly. It takes planning ahead and careful concentration. I'm enjoying your articles in Woodturning Magazine, welcome to the club. Aloha.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I can relate......I've blown up a few over the years. I don't ever recall blowing one up while actually turning the bowl, but doing something stupid like leaving the tool on the rest while reaching for the off switch...BAM!!!

Done that! LOL

 

[Brian Horais]

I have the Vermec and the Vicmarc offset chucks. I have used them several times, but an inner voice tells me this could be dicey, LOL. I admired your work greatly. It takes planning ahead and careful concentration. I'm enjoying your articles in Woodturning Magazine, welcome to the club. Aloha.

Thanks Emiliano. I'm enjoying your articles as well. Woodturning is an excellent magazine and the staff is very responsive. Happy Holidays!

 

[John Torchick]

We finish a turning and admire our fine work. Then..."Just a little tweak here. Oh no, a catch! #$%&@"

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

Doug Thompson sent me a 5/8 Bill Grumbine bowl gouge. I think that so far I have hit the spinning work, by accident of course, 3 times. Bill's gouge is the longest gouge I have ever owned. I love it, I just had to get used to it. I have this gouge and a few others with Doug's handles and the Jimmy Clewes quick couplers, a great combination.

From that picture it looks like a bark inclusion between the tenon and the bowl and it is plain to see why it failed.

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

Glad you weren’t hurt any worse. Were you able to save the bowl? Is there enough thickness on the bottom to put a mortise in it? That is beautiful wood.

 

[Ashley Bell]

Just Had to stay away from the lathe for two weeks to allow my hand to recover from injury!
Was prepping a sweet chestnut burr, which was lovely featured but the top had ring shakes !
I was using my 3520b with the full cage down , removed the best section of the piece for future turning ,it was so nice I thought I would get another piece, nearer to the ring shakes!
Suddenly bang ,it blew up big time ,the pain was terrible ,i think when the piece shattered it took the chisel down and wacked my thumb up into the bottom of the cage.
I thought my thumb had been cut off ,but it's still there although my whole hand has been black and blue and my thumb has cuts top and bottom.
The chisel was launched away until it hit a wall.
So hopefully lesson learned ,if it doesn't look safe bin it immediately I consider myself extremely fortunate .

 

[Bernie Hrytzak]

Just Had to stay away from the lathe for two weeks to allow my hand to recover from injury!
Was prepping a sweet chestnut burr, which was lovely featured but the top had ring shakes !
I was using my 3520b with the full cage down , removed the best section of the piece for future turning ,it was so nice I thought I would get another piece, nearer to the ring shakes!
Suddenly bang ,it blew up big time ,the pain was terrible ,i think when the piece shattered it took the chisel down and wacked my thumb up into the bottom of the cage.
I thought my thumb had been cut off ,but it's still there although my whole hand has been black and blue and my thumb has cuts top and bottom.
The chisel was launched away until it hit a wall.
So hopefully lesson learned ,if it doesn't look safe bin it immediately I consider myself extremely fortunate .

Glad you weren't hurt more seriously, ring shake pieces in general are most dangerous as a large piece could separate from the blank and be fatal. I always inspect for cracks (ring shake) and toss if cracks are present. A flying chisel could have been worst than a dent in the wall. I had an English walnut blank separate on me and about 1/3 of the blank hit the wall 20 feet away dinging it. Since then, am more careful in examining turning stock.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Just Had to stay away from the lathe for two weeks to allow my hand to recover from injury!
Was prepping a sweet chestnut burr, which was lovely featured but the top had ring shakes !
I was using my 3520b with the full cage down , removed the best section of the piece for future turning ,it was so nice I thought I would get another piece, nearer to the ring shakes!
Suddenly bang ,it blew up big time ,the pain was terrible ,i think when the piece shattered it took the chisel down and wacked my thumb up into the bottom of the cage.
I thought my thumb had been cut off ,but it's still there although my whole hand has been black and blue and my thumb has cuts top and bottom.
The chisel was launched away until it hit a wall.
So hopefully lesson learned ,if it doesn't look safe bin it immediately I consider myself extremely fortunate .

Oh my! It hurts just reading about your injury. It's scary thinking about all of the bad things that could have happened. I hope that you have a speedy recovery.

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

Glad you didn’t get hurt bad. Hope you have a speedy recovery. What is ring shake?

 

[Bill Boehme]

What is ring shake?

It is separation along the growth rings. It can be caused by high winds or other stresses on the tree. It can also happen when a tree is felled if it hits the ground hard especially if the ground isn't flat.

 

[Dave Delo]

When you see something like this, dismounted and throw away.

 

[Gary Beasley]

When you see something like this, dismounted and throw away.
View attachment 37603 View attachment 37603 View attachment 37604

Yup, that ones going everywhere fast!