Boxes???

[Jake Debski]

I have a question, there is plenty of interest in turning boxes. Are these boxes to be used for a purpose or do they exist solely as a decorative collectible? I am not throwing stones, just curious. I understand the craftsmanship point of threaded and suction fit tops, but it seems a box that requires two hands to open would have limited uses. I arrived at this point because I made a couple of friction/suction fit boxes then began to wonder if a one handed loose lid would be better received. I don't attempt to sell my turnings but the wife and I give nearly everything I make to friends, family, etc. I'd really like to have your thoughts on this if you don't mind.

 

[Ed_McDonnell]

My thoughts:

I think woodturners like suction / threaded lids because it demonstrates a level of turning accomplishment.

Non woodturners like a loose fit that is easy to remove (with one hand), but secure enough where the lid won't fall off when the box is picked up, moved or bumped.

Ed

 

[GeorgeH]

I'd have to agree with Ed's comments. Additionally, I sometimes use my boxes as containers for small gifts (e.g. rings, pins, broaches, etc.) or simply as a token of appreciation for a favor. I like my lids fit snuggly (not necessarily "suction" fit) and, except for the larger varieties that might include a finial in the top, they do required two hands to open. For potpourri boxes I prefer a rather lose fitting lid to that air can circulate - hopefully to prevent mold. The reason I try not to run tolerances so close as to create a "suction" fit is that wood never settles down entirely and I don't want the recipient to have to fight with the fit as time goes on. I haven't tried a threaded lid box yet. But I'd approach the task in the same spirit.

 

[john lucas]

I'm not sure what my customers use the boxes for. I think they just make good gifts for friends and they are small enough and inexpensive enough for them to afford.
When I make small boxes I make a suction fit and occasionally a snap fit. Small boxes are easy to pick up and then have a satisfying feel when you open them. If I make the box with a delicate finial I design it so they can grip the lid or I make is so the led comes off easily.
For larger boxes I like them to be able to remove the lid without the bottom following. I used to make these with a snugger lid but people would pick them up by the top or finial and the bottom would drop off and embarrass us both. I started making the bigger boxes with lids that easily come off with one hand.
I also make screw fit lids. The problem I'm having now is when I sell screw fit and friction fit lids. No one knows how to open them so I'm going to need to label them some way so the gallery knows which ones are which or make them all one or the other .

 

[Ron Sardo]

I make both suction fit boxes and loose fitting boxes, and sometimes on purpose.

 

[Charlie Knighton]

boxes

and sometimes on purpose

you mind if i borrow that phrase??????? 😀

 

[Richard Baker]

Snap/Suction

John L.,
For Ron and me, whatsa difference between "suction" and "snap" fit? Other than that they may both be difficult for some of us to achieve on purpose.

Edit: Am familiar with "press fit".

 

[john lucas]

I consider a suction fit a lid that comes off very smoothly with no slop. A snap fit lid has to overcome the snap part before it pops off. The snap fit lid has a little groove turned in the bottom of the tenon and a slight bump on the lid so they actually lock together when closed and it requires some effort to overcome that lock before it comes off.

 

[MichaelMouse]

Another case of letting turners tell us what to turn, in my opinion. Does the world really need another small-capacity container with slick sides, difficult to grip and open? Don't we have enough adult-proof pill containers?

Sometimes you want to put a lid over your stuff to keep prying eyes and maybe the dust out. Keeping you out is another matter.

For those who want to make them tight (even to the use of an O ring), make sure you have a design that allows a reasonable grip. Some might even provide an obvious place under the lid by which to lift the entire container without risking opening in the dead of winter.

 

[Michael Stafford]

Jake, I was asked this same question a while back on another forum. "Your boxes look nice but do they serve any purpose other than being dust collectors?"

My answer to that person and to you is, "Yes and no."

Obviously a box can be used to store anything that the owner so desires as long as the object(s) can fit inside. And sometimes they are bought just because they are pretty things.

You could ask the same thing about hollow forms. They can be used to hold some dried flowers and on occasion they look very pretty doing just that but whether or not they look beautiful standing alone is in the eye of the viewer.

I hope my boxes and any other of my turnings will be viewed as adding something beautiful to the world. I hope that I have turned a precious lump of wood into something that people will enjoy seeing and touching. It seems that buyers of boxes are also tactile people as they constantly rub a box while it is in their hands.

As far as fit I have to agree with Ron in that my goal is to have a functional container where the lid will stay on if the box is inverted but also a container than can be opened without engaging several strong men and the Clydesdales. However wood being what wood is and the level of my skill has more effect on the fit than my intentions. If I am successful the lid will be a nice snug slip fit that traps the air with a whoosh but does not require great effort to remove. I want granny to be able to remove the lid.

I found out some time after selling one of the most beautiful and expensive boxes that I ever turned that it was being used by the owner to store one of her children's baby teeth. Another woman uses a box she bought from me to store paperclips. In one instance an expensive box stores precious memories and in the other the box is a utilitarian container. If the owner is happy and pleased to look at what I made then I have been successful.

 

[john lucas]

I'll share a trick I learned on fitting box lids. First of course is wood movement. Endgrain boxes move less so it's easier to get the lid to fit smoothly. Small boxes move less, big boxes move more, consequently small boxes are easier to get a lid that fits snug through all the seasons.
Now here's the trick. Long tenons help trap the air so it's easier to get a lid that will stay on until you pull it off. For example my pill boxes and sewing kits have a tenon that is about 1/2" long. The lid will not fall off but comes off very smoothly with a little pull from your fingers. The trapped air makes it "pop" each time you pull the lid off. People like that. They often pull the lid off several times to hear the "pop". larger diameter boxes with a tenon the same length don't do it quite as well and the shorter the tenon the less "pop".
Obviously if you have a wood with curly grain it's harder to get the grain to match up if you make the tenon very long. I think that's why the snap lid came into being. You can make a very short tenon for a better grain match but still get a lid that stays on until you purposely pull it off.
I just made 2 boxes for a lady to store her rings in. These were 3" in diameter and had lids that easily pull free with one hand.

 

[Joe Greiner]

I'd have to agree with Ed's comments. Additionally, I sometimes use my boxes as containers for small gifts (e.g. rings, pins, broaches, etc.) or simply as a token of appreciation for a favor. I like my lids fit snuggly (not necessarily "suction" fit) and, except for the larger varieties that might include a turned spindle extension ("handle") in the top, they do required two hands to open. For potpourri boxes I prefer a rather lose fitting lid to that air can circulate - hopefully to prevent mold. The reason I try not to run tolerances so close as to create a "suction" fit is that wood never settles down entirely and I don't want the recipient to have to fight with the fit as time goes on. I haven't tried a threaded lid box yet. But I'd approach the task in the same spirit.

Neither have I. Probably not a good idea to use LH threads.

Joe

 

[Angelo]

Precious Boxes

I find that turned boxes make excellent keepers for precious items. I remember, some time ago, I read the answer to the same question by a wood turner, whose name I don’t remember, her answer was, “I use them to store my loose tourmalinesâ€. Well, we don’t store anything that precious but I do like them to hold items my wife and I have collected. One holds pink sand from Bermuda another shells from the Bahamas and most recently stones from the Oregon Coast. A noble use for these turned boxes, I think.

A

 

[Frank Kobilsek]

Jake,

Probably 80% of the boxes I make (which might be 10 per year) are rosary boxes. I inlay a religous metal in the top and most often include the rosary. My wife is a Catholic school principal and we have many friends in the clergy. She uses them for gifts. A couple years ago a Deacon at church lost his young son-in-law to cancer. A group got together to hold a fundraiser for the widow and childern so I donated a rosary box to the auction part of the evening. We knew there would be many Catholic friends in attendance. That little box brought $185. Right crowd and good material (not talking about wood this time) can do very well.

Frank

 

[Brujo]

As others said the tightness of the lid depends on the intended use. If you expect folks to keep sugar or something like that in the box the lid needs to come off one handed. If you going to put tourmaline crystals or something else of value you probably want a nice tight fitting lid.

I have also noticed that if people ask what the boxes are for, giving an answer is a good thing. When I started calling boxes "ring" or "keepsake" boxes sales went up. Many people are not creative enough to think of a use for a container on their own.

Actually that is not entirely true. My boxes with the tight "pop" lids sale big time to the "medicinal herb" crowd out here in Cali. Enough that I specifically make them in shapes that fit nicely into your pocket. I guess you just have to know your audience 😉

 

[Jake Debski]

Thank you for the responses. The answers are about what I expected, Michael Stafford's comment on hollow forms was an eye opener for me. That thought probably wouldn't have crossed my mind. But he is right, they are mostly decorative.

Another case of letting turners tell us what to turn, in my opinion........................................ .

Michael, who better to advise than those who make and sell the product? There is always room for the creative or the contrarian to prove the exception to the rule.😉

 

[Richard Baker]

Thanks John.

Was asked that other question today by two of the ladies who run a local gallery but are unfamiliar with woodturning as an art form. Examining some hollow forms (with and without finials) I brought to show them, they asked "What's it for?". If I had thought of it at the time, the answer might have been- it's for the same thing as these pictures on your gallery walls, to enhance the aesthetic quality of one's surroundings and give pleasure in the viewing of them.

And indeed they are also useful for "storage" of valuable and/or meaningful items, or even additionally decorative items, as the two ladies in question began to visualize.

But I gotta loosen some of those snappy, sucky, whooshy fits before someone picks up a finial and the hollow form crashes to the floor.

 

[MichaelMouse]

Michael, who better to advise than those who make and sell the product? There is always room for the creative or the contrarian to prove the exception to the rule.😉

Who better to advise? Those who buy them. Or, in my not uncommon, after reading the thread, experience, those who don't. It's something you have to sell, not something that sells itself, in my experience. If convincing the emperor he needs new duds is your thing, you can probably do it. While you're at it you can convince him he needs a lid that pops. Not much of a step after the original pitch hits home. Just make sure you're not selling in a lakeside venue. 🙁

I love boxes as a turning. Less than an hour start to finish, lots of variety possible, uses what is essentially scrap. Plenty of good things about 'em. But they don't sell where I sell. Covered bowls and dishes do reasonably well, so I make a few of them. Sort of like "hollow forms," where the only ones which move regularly are the ornaments. Folks will buy a vase, or a "weed pot," but only another turner bothers look at hollow forms.

 

[Jake Debski]

Who better to advise? Those who buy them. Or, in my not uncommon, after reading the thread, experience, those who don't..................

I love boxes as a turning. Less than an hour start to finish, lots of variety possible, uses what is essentially scrap. Plenty of good things about 'em. But they don't sell where I sell. Covered bowls and dishes do reasonably well, so I make a few of them. Sort of like "hollow forms," where the only ones which move regularly are the ornaments. Folks will buy a vase, or a "weed pot," but only another turner bothers look at hollow forms.

MM, you have made my point, you don't make many because they don't sell. While others are able to sell them in their area. It is easier to ask a handfull of folks on a specialty forum than to poll by trial and error in the market place. I have no intention of going into production here, but do make donations for charitable sales and auctions. Hence my original question, what are they generally used for and by inference, which versions are more readily accepted.

 

[GeorgeH]

Hence my original question, what are they generally used for and by inference, which versions are more readily accepted.

Hey, Jake, you obviously have an imagination. Just close your eyes and let it run. "Sales" represent the success of "Marketing". If you market your items, with examples of how they are intended to be used, you may find your sales increase dramatically. Boxes can be used for all the things mentioned in the previous posts to this thread. Artifacts, religious items, locks of hair, and collections of every sort. Mine are marketed as personal toothpick holders, containers for carrying medical supplies (e.g. glycerin tablets) potpourri containers, and whatever else I can think of at any given time. The way I market an item depends upon the audience I am likely to attract in any venue (flea market, retail outlet, etc.) Remember, even pepper grinders are boxes. The only difference is that the lid rotates and the spicy stuff drops out of the bottom on demand. :cool2:

 

[Wipedout]

Let me add this - if you are the sort that sells his wares at a craft fair or art fair or even a gallery, to help "sell" a box - try putting something in one of them. If you make Potpourri boxes - have one of the ones on display full of potpourri .. if you make small boxes that are good to hold paperclips for example then fill one of them with paperclips - or whatever you think the boxes may be used for. Tall boxes for pasta - fill one etc... Much easier to sell the user when he sees what the purpose might be. Direct them - the business will come. That kind of sale comes much easier than the potential buyer going - what's it for and you telling them .. harder to sell when you go - for whatever you want it to be for or when you point out the obvious - many buyers don't like being told they are too stupid to figure it out - no matter how nice you tell them - if they have to ask then you are "smarter" than they are. In thier eyes. Most will walk away wondering what they are for but never asking ....

Just my two cents ...

Robert