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Boxelder: Ecstasy and then the Agony

John Tisdale

John Tisdale

Joined
Apr 11, 2014
Messages
459
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Location
Dallas, TX
Below is a copy/paste of an email sent to James Johnson of Kerrville, TX. He sent me a pic of a large boxelder vase that was drop-dead gorgeous. James is truly one of the most innovative and original turners on the planet. My advice to anyone doing large works is to get a genuine "James Johnson Toolrest" - I can't imagine doing a large work without it.

I know there are many on this forum that have cut into a piece of boxelder and found a rich beauty that, if entered in a rose grower's competition, would send those flower guys packing. I also know there have been posts on this forum on "preserving the red in boxelder" - any new suggestions always appreciated. Please keep in mind the issue is "preserving the red" - airbrushing red dye or paint is not, to me, a viable approach.
Thanks,
John

James,
That is both a great vase and a great piece of boxelder.
Don't know about you but, for me, turning boxelder is a love/hate experience. And I know you know of which I speak: when you're cutting into a fresh boxelder log you experience saturation of reds and beautiful patterns that, unless there are others hanging around your shop, will only be experienced by you. Seeing the beauty is manic / knowing it will dissipate is depressive - you want to share an experience which can never be shared. Below is a boxelder I turned that, by the time it was completed, was "a shadow of its former self".
QUESTION: Any clues or secrets on preserving the reds in boxelder? Magic snake oil?



DSC02422.JPG
 
I have a couple ideas that seem to extend the life of the red although it will eventually fade.

I turned a small vase four years ago and finished it with thin CA using Alan Trout's method that he has demonstrated at SWAT a couple times. It didn't have much red to start with, but the red is still hanging in there although I'm sure that it has faded a bit.

An even better method is to bleach the wood using lye and strong hydrogen peroxide (swimming pool shock oxidizer, Baquacil or Aqua Silk). The cost of the DIY ingredients is about a tenth of the cost of the same thing sold as wood bleach. The bleach removes the yellowish tan color from the wood leaving it nearly paper white. With the yellowish color removed, the red will go from dull orange red to a bright nearly magenta red. I bleached a couple pieces a couple years ago. One is a 19" bowl that I finished with Krylon acrylic lacquer and the red is still looking pretty decent despite being stored where it has been exposed to bright indirect sunlight. The other bleached piece is just a log that I rough turned to a cylinder and plan to turn a vase one of these days. It has lots of red in the heart wood. It has no finish and has been in my wood stash in the garage where it gets indirect sunlight. I have noticed recently that the red is beginning to fade a bit.

I am not claiming any kind of miracle cure for the fading color, but I want to try combining both the bleaching and CA finish. On a hollowform I think it would be worthwhile to also apply finish to the interior.

I have purchased several nested rough outs from James Johnson and was disappointed that he didn't have a booth at SWAT this year.
 
Air brushing the red is the only option I've found for long term protection of the red fade. I did a test several years ago of a whole lot of UV finishes including some we would never really use on wood. Non of them worked when exposed to the summer sun about 14 ours a day for 3 days. I have been running a test for the last year on a piece sitting on my tool cabinet. It never gets direct sun but gets a lot of ambient sun light through a window in the afternoon. After a year it is starting to loose the brightness of the color. I have another piece laying right beside it with the color side down and it never sees daylight except when I flip it over to compare the color to the other piece. These pieces have no finish. So my best suggestion is to use a finish high in UV protection and then keep the piece out of the direct sunlight and even better store it in the dark when not showing or using it. Other than that practice with the air brush, it's really easier than you think. I'm certainly open to any suggestions anyone else has on this subject. When I ran my test I used box elder, osage orange, cherry, and Padauk as my test subjects. Non of them held up with any of the UV finishes for more than 2 days of direct sunlight. One of my friends suggested it wasn't sunlight but was ozone. Well I have a box made from box elder and the inside is still like new because it never sees daylight. The outside is faded but not terribly and it's been in a cabinet with a glass front for probably 10 years. So even though the red will fade if it's stored out of direct sunlight it will last a very long time. May not be as bright over the years but then if you don't have something fresh to compare it to it's not horrible.
I was fortunate enough to meet James Johnson when i toured Texas doing demos several years ago. What an interesting man and very inventive turner.
 
A rod builder I know turned a flame BE reel seat insert, finished it with CA, then left it on a ledge in his office for several years. It was still the same color as when he finished it. The ledge was bright but not in direct sunlight. I've got a few inserts that I treated with CA and they stayed red for 1.5+ years, but those were kept in the basement waiting to be put on a rod. Wipe on Poly has some UV stabilizers that might work, but I haven't kept any WOP finished box elder around for more than 6-9 months. Those are doing well so far, again, in a bright room but out of direct sunlight.
 
Sean Evans said:
Ed Moulthrop treated his with PEG and they were still red 20+ years later.
Click to expand...

I heard that the PEG is starting to fail on some of his pieces. A lady in California contacted me by email. She said that her husband who passed away several years ago was a woodturner and had used PEG on several of his turnings that she had. She said that the pieces had become greasy as the PEG was leaching out of the wood after about fifteen years and wanted to know if it is possible to restore them. I replied that I have also seen the same problem and don't have a solution.

About fifteen years ago when PEG seemed to be too good to be true I bought a couple five pound blocks from Craft Supplies. They looked and felt like blocks of paraffin wax. Before I got around to using them I started hearing about various problems so I just put the box in a corner and forgot about it. Every few years I would stumble across the box while rearranging stuff and I noticed that the blocks seemed to be very gradually becoming softer. The big surprise was late last year when I opened the box and saw that it had turned into a liquid about the viscosity of light motor oil. I'm really glad that the heavy duty plastic bag didn't spring a leak or else it would have ruined the floor. Now I'm just waiting for a hazardous waste clean up day to get rid of the stuff.
 
Interesting, and good to note. I’ve never personally messed with the stuff, but handled a big bowl of Ed’s that David Ellsworth owns. This was back in 2003 mind you, but as I said, it had been done over 20 years prior and was still quite vibrant. Coincidentally enough, I’ll be down at his place on the 28th of this month for a workshop, I’ll make sure to ask him how it’s holding up.
 
Funny you reference a rose. A flower with great beauty and wonder, with a very short life. The Japanese have a saying that is something like Mono No Aware, "the beauty of transience". Trying to force a permanence against nature's law is of course a common human trait. If you want the beauty, keep it in a dark closet, but then where is the joy? There are tons of commercials on TV about ways to extend human life with a pill. Modern medicine kept my mother going until the age of 87, with a brain melted with Alzheimer's. Permanence can have a price.
 
The most important thing for me would be if I was going to sell such a piece. I feel I owe it to my customer to ensure the colors to be the same two years from now as when they bought it. Thus I consider red dye consistent with that ethic.
 
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