• Congratulations to Alex Bradley winner of the December 2024 Turning Challenge (click here for details)
  • Conversations are now Direct Messages (click here for details)
  • Congratulations to Gabriel Hoff for "Spalted Beech Round Bottom Box" being selected as Turning of the Week for January 6, 2024 (click here for details)
  • Welcome new registering member. Your username must be your real First and Last name (for example: John Doe). "Screen names" and "handles" are not allowed and your registration will be deleted if you don't use your real name. Also, do not use all caps nor all lower case.

Box Elder to be turned green by Novice

M

Mike S

Joined
Feb 2, 2006
Messages
16
Likes
0
Would like to have some advice on maximizing the red colors , ie how its to be cut , mounting , etc. I have a lot of kiln dryed blank turning knowledge, this will be my first green turn, also, after reading lots ot threads on drying I have come how to using the microwave or alcohol. Whats the general consenses. Thanks Mike
 
Mike,
I like to use the microwave but I also air dry in paper bags. I am planning to try the alcohol method. Here is a link to check on the micro process. My experience tells me to go sloooooooooooowww. Short duration at low power settings. And, wood species react differently.

http://www.penturners.org/content/Wood-Drying.pdf
http://mgorrow.tripod.com/microwave.../~rhaslip/Rex/workshop/microwave/microwav.htm

And the main site from which these link came...
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~rhaslip/Rex/workshop/microwave/microwav.htm

Good Luck,
 
Greg I just turned a bunch of it. The red generally but not always is near the heart. It usually runs up and down the tree not out that much. If you look at the end and have red stop somewhere it may run down through the log or it may just end, you never know for sure. I've had my best luck keeping the red by turning hollow vessels but sometimes bowls work really great if you turn them with the open end toward the bark. Since the red is usally the strongest near the pith I turn close to the pith but don't leave it in. The wood moves a fair amount and will split easily if the pith is left in. For roughing bowls I make sure it's completely out of the picture, if I'm turning a bowl to completion I will use the pith section to run the screws through from my faceplate and then remove this section when I reverse turn the bowl.
I haven't had any trouble drying this stuff in the microwave. It seems to check less than many woods but does move a fair amount so leave extra wood if you do this.
For rough turning I just turn them put a little anchorseal on the edgrain portions and toss them on the floor of my shop. After about a month or so I move them up on a shelf. This has worked fine for this wood, Ihaven't lost a one.
Some of the wood I have doesn't have much red so I've been cutting it up into smaller pieces to be used for boxes, finials, pens, and christmas ornaments. I just try to figure out where the red will be and cut so that it will end up in the edge of a round piece. I toss these in a box to dry and will use them next year sometime.
Since it does seem to dry in the microwave quite well I've been making small hollow vessels out of some of the green stuff. I just rough it out and then toss it in the microwave for 10 or so 30 second intervals. I let it cool completeley between cycles.
 
I agree with John, the color is towards the center. I you make a vase I would position the center of the tree to coincide with the top of the vase for sidegrain vases like this one

A platter with the pith side up could also work well. You should probably remove enough of the center to just remove the pith to reduce drying stress.
 
Be aware that the red will fade to brown.
This seems to be due mainly to UV light.

Using a finish with UV inhibitor and keeping the finished piece out of direct sunlight can extend the red for years. I also think (without any foundation) that bleaching with 2 part wood bleach seem's to make the color last a bit longer. The bleaching does not affect the red but make the background wood whiter. Unfinshed in direct sunlight the red will fade in days.

The red streaks in the living tree extend vertically above and below the small holes left by the box elder beetle larve. These streaks can be inches to several feet in length and with heavy infestation they over lap and generall produce wonderful patterns.

For bowls and hollow forms I tend to work with half logs. I cut blanks from a log end tha shows a lot of red and look at the other end. if it has a lof red then the streaks usually go all through the blank.

happy turning,
Al
 
Not much experience with boxelder, as it can't compete in the woods, but of the urban wood I've harvested, the red deposits seem kin to the greenish mineral stains in its cousin the hard maple. Seems to happen where the tree has had some stress that slows down transport of solubles. Betting it's related to iron, as chlorophyll in the leaves goes red in the fall, then to brown. Around reaction wood, under branches, and at the border of the heartwood is where it forms on our local trees.

Now if we could keep it in the ferrous oxidation state, it would be red forever?
 
Jeff Jilg said:
I agree with John, the color is towards the center. I you make a vase I would position the center of the tree to coincide with the top of the vase for sidegrain vases like this one

A platter with the pith side up could also work well. You should probably remove enough of the center to just remove the pith to reduce drying stress.
Click to expand...
Jeff, thanks for the photos, when turning, to get rid of the pith, do you put the pith in the area that will be hollowed out, I know you want to remove it as much as possible, but I'm not sure how this is done.
 
If you check out the pictures in that other thread, look at how the wood is mounted. It is setup so the pith will occur where the top of the hollowform vase is. In this case the objective is to maximize as much of the red as possible. To accomplish that the top will only be slightly curved - maintaining most of the red color.

So I mounted the piece between centers. The pith is facing and perpendicular to the headstock in the photos. In this roughout there were several objectives:
  • create the rough outside shape
  • cut a tenon on the foot so it can be grasped by the chuck later
  • cut the pith down (near the headstock) so that no complete growth rings are left

Since the piece is between centers the last objective is not totally achievable since you can't cut near the drive center. But that area can be cleaned off later when remounted for hollowing. The pictures are out of order. But the top picture shows the piece after hollowing, and the pith has been removed.

Actually just about any piece can be roughed out like this including bowls and platters. It is a very common roughout technique.

An even simpler technique to just cut a slice off the wood using a chainsaw. And that can be even more fun because it's faster and you get to go outside and crank up a real loud toy! (Ok...chainsaws aren't really toys but it is fun).
 
Thanks for the URL.

I like to chase around looking for answers, but can't say I've even hit that site before. Will explore it in the future.

Does look like they too draw a parallel to green mineral stain, which is calcium oxalate (kidney stones). Since iron is transported actively, rather than passively like other salts, it remains my candidate.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top