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Bowls through history

J

Jeff DeReus

Joined
Jan 2, 2022
Messages
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Location
Solon, IA
I have been finding myself more curious about the different uses, shapes, and reasoning behind different bowl shapes over the course of historical time. I have seen some of the articles Emiliano has referenced as well as his discussions on calabash bowls. As far as I can recall, Emiliano is the man to ask about Hawaiian bowl history. But what about other cultures as well?

Does anybody know of a reference book that would cover that area of knowledge? I have the Raffan book on bowl shape and design. But I take that as more of the aesthetic approach.

Any information is appreciated.
 
Look at ceramic bowls. In the course of my archaeological career I handled 7000 years of pottery, working for years in Turkey, but earlier in Iran and Iraq, and studying museum collections. Did around 10,000 measured drawings. Years ago my wife published a cross-cultural study of the relationship between vessel form and function.
 
While you are at it - look at the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Etruscans, the Chinese and other Asian cultures all the North, Mezo-American and South American ancient cultures.

My point is: there exists a tremendous amount of bowl and vessel shapes that can be of interest - throughout history. There ar enough new shapes. Only finishes and embellishments that "modernize" them......;):)

If you are looking for modern era shapes and styles - books by Richard Raffan are a great source of material.
 
But are there any known resources for such a thing in print form that people here would recommend? While I think I can google decently I would welcome known book suggestions.

I think once I got a start it would lead me to many different civilizations. This could be a long road.
 
Jeff DeReus said:
But are there any known resources for such a thing in print form that people here would recommend? While I think I can google decently I would welcome known book suggestions.

I think once I got a start it would lead me to many different civilizations. This could be a long road.
Click to expand...
See the last sentence in my above post.......
 
You need to look more at archeological data and less about bowls. Many areas in the world had limited wood supplies even a century ago. And even less of a metal smelting history. So all those bowls will be on the smaller side, and hand carved. Also in those areas, clay was much more readily available than wood, plus the clay was also so much more easily worked. Clay coil pots are incredibly easy to make.
 
500 wooden Bowls was published about a decade and a half ago, has a decent selection of relatively recent forms. Out of print, but can be found used still relatively cheap. I find myself looking through it every now and again for inspiration.
Range of work from Stocksdale and Prestini to more (then) current work by Luce, Fleming, and many others. Some seem like formative work early on, but most are worth review.
Just found a pdf version via Google free.
 
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JeffSmith said:
500 wooden Bowls was published about a decade and a half ago, has a decent selection of relatively recent forms. Out of print, but can be found used still relatively cheap. I find myself looking through it every now and again for inspiration.
Range of work from Stocksdale and Prestini to more (then) current work by Luce, Fleming, and many others. Some seem like formative work early on, but most are worth review.
Just found a pdf version via Google free.
Click to expand...
Here is a source for the book
Pat
 
Hugh said:
Check out the book by Robin Wood ------"The Wooden Bowl".
Lots of good historical stuff there.
Click to expand...

+1 for Robin's book

Also, RR's.

Note: RR comes from an artistic family and he also worked among potters down in Cornwall

My visit to the museum in Athens was inspirational. As will visits to many others.

I have also studied, taught and been a potter. There are no new shapes!

A good discipline for the mind and hand is drawing from nature:

I did that for 3 to 4hrs per week for 6yrs early on in my career.

You will then recognise what you are seeing in forms that work.
 
In just a quick look at the images in "500 wooden Bowls" There is one common element, there are very few straight lines in the contours shown. Even the ones that seem almost straight have a slight curve to them.

The ability to get a smooth curve and to blend curves smoothly is a goal to getting a good looking bowl.

Stu
 
I've really been trying to be more thoughtful and deliberate about my shapes and proportions. For bowls I found Richard Raffan's book very helpful and yes - the curves and shape are critical. He makes the point that many many years from now it will be the primary element that really lasts and stands out. He does a good job of walking through why we like some shapes vs others vs function. Something we kinda "know' but can't really describe. I downloaded the 500 bowls pdf and will scan for a few that look interesting and within my reach - looks interesting.

For vases and other hollow form shapes a google search and scroll through the images tab and there are lots to choose from.
 
I don't know how far back you want to go, but wooden bowls that were used by everyday people, if any, they where hacked out.

Even just a few hundred years ago, turning wood was with man power, and they were not larger bowls made from dry wood, and the shapes where what it was used for.

If you see old containers that are older than a few hundred years, they are clay ones , not wood that would split and rot away, not only that but how do you easily get larger pieces of wood, I made some pictures of old plates and containers that where made and used locally, and dredged up out of a small river where a city had been build up around it, and some of these were in a place where we could see what was used in those days, most where broken or damaged, but you could clearly see the pieces and forms.

So I made a few pictures that I still have, shown here.

old pottery.jpg old containers.jpg Big pot.jpg older pottery.jpg old but not as old as the previous.jpg
 
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I probably have a number of those books, and have looked at many pictures of other forms. I put the books down and go turn. Some of the shapes stay with me, some do not, some I kind of remember. Some times the wood determines what the shape will be, some times you get lucky and determine the shape. I think a little bit of every shape stays with me in my subconscious some where....

robo hippy
 
Mark Jundanian said:
That looks like it was an interesting exhibit. Were those mostly clay pots?
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Yes Mark these where all clay pots, people just threw them out into the river, when the area was cleaned up and the old buildings restored, that is what they dredged up, and often the parts where found, like where a dish broke in half, and those where put back together.

The town/City was there when the Romans came and stayed there as it was a. good defensible area, they probably were an influence in what was made there and shapes that were used, just guessing, but I do believe that.
 
Pat Patterson said:
Here is a source for the book
Pat
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting that, Pat......

One thing I've noticed while viewing these 500 bowls, is art as a separate expression takes precedence over lathe turning as a pure art form. There is nothing right or wrong about that observation, it's just applying accuracy, as applied to bowls, when considering lathe turning as an individual subject. There are some pure lathe turned bowls in that collection, but they are in the overwhelming, and insignificant minority.

stu senator said:
In just a quick look at the images in "500 wooden Bowls" There is one common element, there are very few straight lines in the contours shown. Even the ones that seem almost straight have a slight curve to them.
Click to expand...

Stu....that is an interesting observation, and until you pointed it out, I hadn't noticed it.

When applying that concept to my own bowls, there are curves, and quite a few straight lines as well. It wasn't a plan from the initial concept.....it was me trying to combine the two elements, while making that union aesthetically appealing. Straight lines and curved lines are things I'm working out with my "processes", and combining the two is now a part of my overall effort.

-----odie-----
 
odie said:
Thanks for posting that, Pat......

One thing I've noticed while viewing these 500 bowls, is art as a separate expression takes precedence over lathe turning as a pure art form. There is nothing right or wrong about that observation, it's just applying accuracy, as applied to bowls, when considering lathe turning as an individual subject. There are some pure lathe turned bowls in that collection, but they are in the overwhelming, and insignificant minority.



Stu....that is an interesting observation, and until you pointed it out, I hadn't noticed it.

When applying that concept to my own bowls, there are curves, and quite a few straight lines as well. It wasn't a plan from the initial concept.....it was me trying to combine the two elements, while making that union aesthetically appealing. Straight lines and curved lines are things I'm working out with my "processes", and combining the two is now a part of my overall effort.

-----odie-----
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Of passing interest, perhaps, is David Ellsworth's view on the shape of bowls. He was here a couple of years ago doing an all day demo and he was asked the question "where do I get guidance on shaping?" His response was you don't need any guidance. Do what makes you happy and is pleasing to your eye. There is no formula.
 
Paul A Andrews said:
Of passing interest, perhaps, is David Ellsworth's view on the shape of bowls. He was here a couple of years ago doing an all day demo and he was asked the question "where do I get guidance on shaping?" His response was you don't need any guidance. Do what makes you happy and is pleasing to your eye. There is no formula.
Click to expand...

Interesting, Paul......

Since you quoted my post..... Is there a relationship between Ellsworth's view on inspiration for shape, and what I observed with the 500 bowls.....?

(BTW, I think he's right......I just don't see the connection.)

-----odie-----
 
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odie said:
Interesting, Paul......

Since you quoted my post..... Is there a relationship between Ellsworth's view on inspiration for shape, and what I observed with the 500 bowls.....?

(BTW, I think he's right......I just don't see the connection.)

-----odie-----
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Odie,

There is no difference in my opinion. I think he could well have said art is separate expression.

Paul
 
I am in the midst of reading The Wooden Bowl by Robin Wood and it is very interesting. It is relatively hard to find but The Center for Art and Wood website is where I found it for $50.
The book is a history of wooden bowls not a design book. That being said it has a wonderful amount of pictures and a few illustrations that are very inspiring. I highly recommend this book if only for the heritage value it brings to turning bowls.
 
Leo Van Der Loo said:
I don't know how far back you want to go, but wooden bowls that were used by everyday people, if any, they where hacked out.

Even just a few hundred years ago, turning wood was with man power, and they were not larger bowls made from dry wood, and the shapes where what it was used for.

If you see old containers that are older than a few hundred years, they are clay ones , not wood that would split and rot away, not only that but how do you easily get larger pieces of wood, I made some pictures of old plates and containers that where made and used locally, and dredged up out of a small river where a city had been build up around it, and some of these were in a place where we could see what was used in those days, most where broken or damaged, but you could clearly see the pieces and forms.

So I made a few pictures that I still have, shown here.

View attachment 45598 View attachment 45599 View attachment 45600 View attachment 45601 View attachment 45602
Click to expand...
I'm guessing you have never been to the Bishop Museum in Honolulu, Hawaii. They have hundreds of wooden bowls, all made before 1778. Some are 300-plus years old. Some are large enough to hold 22 gallons. Hawaiians were making wooden bowls 500 plus years ago. I have three calabashes that have been in my wife's family for seven generations. They have not rotted or split. They were made in the mid-1600 or perhaps earlier.
 
Emillano, How did they make those bowls? I don't think they had lathes, though they could have figured some thing out. They didn't have metal did they? Anyone over there still make them the 'traditional' way?

robo hippy
 
Emiliano Achaval said:
I'm guessing you have never been to the Bishop Museum in Honolulu, Hawaii. They have hundreds of wooden bowls, all made before 1778. Some are 300-plus years old. Some are large enough to hold 22 gallons. Hawaiians were making wooden bowls 500 plus years ago. I have three calabashes that have been in my wife's family for seven generations. They have not rotted or split. They were made in the mid-1600 or perhaps earlier.
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I was not talking about a couple hundred years Emiliano, like the ones I showed pictures from are closer to 2000 years old.

But then they would know how to build kilns to fire the clay and cutting a gourd open would be much easier, don't you guys use Kias or whatever you call them to keep the splits together when you make wooden ones ?

You ever seen the pictures from the ships that sunk, filled with clay vessels that were used by Egyptians or Phoenicians, Greeks and later the Romans etc.

The Chinese made porcelain that the Dutch went to China for like 4 or 5 hundred years ago to trade all over Western Europe.

It's like they build the bigger sailing ships and where my family has been making metal objects for at least 12 generations that we know of, the cast iron pots have also been used for a long time (Dutch ovens).

I served in the Dutch navy and was in New Guinea, yes they hollowed out whole logs for dugout canoes and use wooden treen-ware I believe.
 
robo hippy said:
Emillano, How did they make those bowls? I don't think they had lathes, though they could have figured some thing out. They didn't have metal did they? Anyone over there still make them the 'traditional' way?

robo hippy
Click to expand...
You have not attended any of my demos!! I just did demo number 97 of the Covid era. The Richmond, VA guys learned that the Hawaiians used basalt rock adzes and some very remarkably close to modern cabinet scrapers to make the bowls. They burned a little fire, put it out, dig out the charcoal. Long process. I had a friend that reproduced ancient tools. They were so well done that I did not believe him at first that they were reproductions. I inherited a large collection of ancient adzes and tools. But, to my knowledge, nobody has used them to make a bowl.
 
Leo Van Der Loo said:
I was not talking about a couple hundred years Emiliano, like the ones I showed pictures from are closer to 2000 years old.

But then they would know how to build kilns to fire the clay and cutting a gourd open would be much easier, don't you guys use Kias or whatever you call them to keep the splits together when you make wooden ones ?

You ever seen the pictures from the ships that sunk, filled with clay vessels that were used by Egyptians or Phoenicians, Greeks and later the Romans etc.

The Chinese made porcelain that the Dutch went to China for like 4 or 5 hundred years ago to trade all over Western Europe.

It's like they build the bigger sailing ships and where my family has been making metal objects for at least 12 generations that we know of, the cast iron pots have also been used for a long time (Dutch ovens).

I served in the Dutch navy and was in New Guinea, yes they hollowed out whole logs for dugout canoes and use wooden treen-ware I believe.
Click to expand...
Maybe I read too fast, and I did not see where you mentioned 2000 years.
 
As has been mentioned museums can be a great source. The Vesterheim in Decorah, Iowa has a collection of Scandinavian bowls. If you're a member you can arrange a private viewing of their collection, most of which is not on display. At least you used to be able to.
 
Tim Tucker said:
I thought that the ancient Hawaiian Calabash bowls were gourds....? Don't know where I learned that....Is that not correct Emiliano?
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Only the chiefs and their families were able to use wooden calabashes. The commoners used gourds. So, yes, incorrect, LOL
 
Thanks for that info! I need to find a good written resource for Hawaiian Calabash bowls. Forgive me - as you have probably referred many to such. What book(s) would you recommend?

And- the style influenced me to make my wife a "popcorn bowl" with a thin. lightweight round bottom, and a rim for securely carrying it should the grandkids want to use it.
 

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Emiliano Achaval said:
Only the chiefs and their families were able to use wooden calabashes. The commoners used gourds. So, yes, incorrect, LOL
Click to expand...

That surprises me.....so, only royalty had the calabash?

Were the commoners banned from having them?

-----odie-----
 
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