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Bottom Bowl Gouge

M

Myron Smith

Joined
Oct 6, 2007
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Location
Northern Colorado
I recently had the chance to take a class with Stuart Batty (an exceedingly worthwhile experience). As a part of the class we had the opportunity to use his old Glaser bottom bowl gouge. I was blown away by how much better of a tool this was than the gouge I had been previously using to finish the bottoms of bowls. Currently I am using a 1/2" Crown PM Bowl Gouge as my bottom bowl gouge (mostly because it came with a traditional grind from the factory, and required very little grinding to bring it to a nice bottom cutting shape).

Given what I know now, I would like to upgrade my bottom bowl gouge, but since the Glaser tool is no longer available, I am curious what other people use and would recommend. I am particularly interested in feedback from those of you who do deep bowls and even vases (having longer tool extension over the tool rest).

Thanks,
Myron
 
Take a look at the Thompson's. You'll need to make a handle, but the steel is wonderful. I've got his big v grind and I love it. I'm planning to pick up some of his others once I take enough steel of the ones I have.

Marc
 
Are you talking about the inside of the bowl or the outside. Is this Glaser gouge any different shape or sharpening angle to normal gouges.
I will second the Thompson gouge as my favorite. I've been alternating between all the different gouges I have lately and keep coming back to it. I just love the way it cuts. As a bonus it holds an edge longer than my other tools as well.
 
Clarifcation

Sorry, I definitely left out too many details. I know what I am trying to say, right? Anyway, I am talking about a gouge with a blunt (traditional) grind to do the bottom inside of a bowl. Particularly the bottom 1/3 or so where a normal bowl goge starts to run into the end grain at the bottom of the bowl. I do use a Thompson gouge for the rest of the bowl (and I am quite happy with it).

Regarding the Glaser bottom bowl gouge, it has a short flute, the wings on top are ground away so there is no chance of the wings catching while cutting, the cross-section is quite large (3/4"?), there is a lot of metal left at the bottom of the flute, it has a long handle, and most importantly, it has very little natural vibration. It seemed to have less vibration than a Thompson tool held in a Bosch handle filled with lead shot did. This all seemed to help particularly when working 4-6" over the tool rest in the bottom of a deep, narrow bowl. It was sharpened with a primary angle of 40 degrees with a secondary bevel of like 60 or so degrees. A picture might help also, I'll see if I can dig one up.

A 3/4" U shaped Thompson gouge wouldn't be bad, but his tools traditional come with a sweepback/Ellsworth/Irish grind, and the tool I'm thinking of has a mostly square across front.

BTW, the Glaser website does list a 3/4" U-shape bottom bowl gouge. I don't think I have seen anything similiar from other manufacturers.

Does that make sense? I am obviously not a writer.

Thanks,
Myron
 
Thompson was at SWAT and I bought one of his bowl gouges. A lot of people there were buying his unhandled tools. A booth around the corner was selling some good rubber covered metal handles, but believe it or not, a wooden handle can actually be turned on a lathe.
 
It would be tough to find the exact same gouge, but I believe (please correct me if I am wrong), but it was a "U" shaped flute. You should be able to get the same gouge profile from Thompson

http://www.thompsonlathetools.com/

The handles referred to here are probably those from Trent Bosch
http://www.trentbosch.com/

I use a bunch of his handles and like them very much. They are light, but I am sure they could be shot filled to match your liking.

(Disclaimer, this is not a paid endorsement, but turningwood.com does sponsor the Trent Bosch school of woodturning)
 
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http://www.thompsonlathetools.com/

Doug Thompson is a one man operation from milling the flute to grinding and packaging. He will custom make tools of any flute, grinds you like. (As long as he can catch up his sold out items)
I have seen his 1" diameter Texas bowl gouge. Some of the specialty items just don't appear in his product list.
 
I have one of the Glaser bottom of the bowl gouges. I love it for the bottoms of deeper bowls, and bigger ones where the rim of the bowl gets in the way for cutting all the way down through to the bottom. I would guess the bevel angle is 80 degrees, so when you are going across the bottom of a bowl, the handle is sticking straight out. It is a bit more shallow than a spindle roughing gouge, and unlike the srg, it is ground with a slight curve across the front (not square). I have one older 1/2 inch gouge that I ground to this profile, and it works fine as well. The key, is the angle, and sweeping back the front profile a bit. One of dougs U shaped gouges would work fine, you just have to regrind the tip. I think of his U gouge as being more of a C gouge.
robo hippy
 
I think I follow you now. I have an old Sorby that I ground to about 80 degrees. It was ground that way to allow me to rub the bevel while going deep in a straight sided bowl or deep bowls with sides that come in.
 
robo hippy said:
I have one of the Glaser bottom of the bowl gouges. I love it for the bottoms of deeper bowls, and bigger ones where the rim of the bowl gets in the way for cutting all the way down through to the bottom. robo hippy
Click to expand...


Could you take a picture of this and send it... could that be the 1" spindle gouge? I will start milling again over the weekend (due in 6 weeks) so this is a good time to get one made. I'm going mill some skews, scrapers and a few SRG's along with a Jimmy Clewes 3/8 - 1/2 inch bowl gouge.
 
I use a P & N bowl gouge with the conventional grind. I think I ground it to 75 to 80 deg bevel. It pretty much works as robo hippy said. Handle is almost straight out and still rubbing the bevel.
 
Doug When I get home tonight I'll send 2 photos. One of my bowl gouge and one of a bent spindle gouge for doing the bottoms of bowls.
 
It's the Grind - Not the Gouge

I too have seen Stuart Batty use his "bottom bowl gouge." It has a "U" shaped flute. My notes from the demo say that he grinds the cutting edge of the gouge at 70 degrees with no wings. The grind looks just like a spindle roughing gouge - flat across the top and no wings. He then grinds a 40 degree relief on the gouge. - John
 
Picture

Thanks guys for your comments. I have a couple of more questions. It seems to me like this is a tool that is likely to be used with the cutting edge well out over the tool rest, so this seems like a gouge where a larger cross section might well be in order. Also, it seems like a long handle would benefit this tool. Most of my tools handles are wood, just turned from scraps, but I wonder if this isn't a tool where a wood handle is maybe not the best solution (due to the handle length). Comments?

Robo hippy - I assume your Glaser gouge still has the original handle? If it isn't too much trouble, could you tell me how long the tool is with the handle?

Thanks,
Myron

P.S. Here is a picture of the Glaser gouge.
 

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I am watching my pennies so after I had a class with Stu I got a 5/8" Benjamins Best off ebay cheaper than I could buy from PSI. In our class in August, Stu was saying that the bowl bottom gouge was ground at 55degrees so that is what I put on it. I do need to replace the handle with a longer one.

Stu's a great instructior. Are you hand grinding all your other goughes 45 degrees now?
 
I was re-reading an old book Fine Woodworking on Faceplate turning and came across an article by Douglas Owens on using a Bent bowl gouge. It was funny that we were having this conversation when I read that. What he has looks to me like a spindle gouge bent and sharpened to turn the bottoms of bowls. It might work pretty well. It appears to be ground at 25 to 35 degrees which should leave a pretty clean cut.
The other gouge is my bottom turning gouge. It is an old HSS tool I bought from Woodworker supply. I have it ground at 75 degrees. I grind it by hand as you can tell from the photo. It's proven itself many times.
 

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Doug,
Myrons picture is it, except mine is a bit shorter, I tried to put an Elsworth grind on it and it didn't work. It is 3/4 wide. The bottom is about 3/16 thick, and the sides are closer to 1/8. So, sort of like a spindle roughing gouge, but rounded across the top, not square. Definatly not a spindle/detail gouge.
robo hippy
 
Thanks for the help. Of all the different flute shapes we have available the simple "U" shape flute will always give the best finish cut, it's the large radius that shears the wood. I've heard of spindle gouges used inside a bowl (re-ground to a different angle) Johannes Michelsen will use a 1" spindle gouge for a finish cut inside a ball cap, this old Glaser tool looks like a SRG with out the wings. The forged spindle gouge is another way to achieve this tough to get angle. I have a failed attempt at a 3/4 SRG at home that might be worth a try to see if will cut inside a bowl, the wings are to tall right now but they can be ground back.
 
As a regular user of large-radius gouges I have to agree that they give the best finish cut. It's because they put more metal on the wood - referencing where they've been to control them in where they're going.

At the absolute bottom of any flat-grain orientation is a place I call "the button" where I cut center outward, because continuing in from the rim has a tendency to lift out a twisted cone to an unpredictable depth. No problem with cutting that way since it's really a shallow roll similar to the hogging cut you use center out when roughing.

On the subject of "bent" gouges, might consult this.

http://www.peterchild.co.uk/info1/sflute2.htm
 
Glaser Hitec 9/16" Bob Stockdale Gouge?

I use one of these and it's a great tool, but it's a V shape rather than a U shape, and I would not not recommend it as a bowl bottom gouge. P&N's 3/4" Supra bowl gouge is probably a better tool on bowl bottoms.
 
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