Boiled my first big vase

[Doug Freeman]

@Kevin Jenness I agree with you - this looks more appealing vs boiling. Very interested in your results, keep the info coming - you might start a new thread.

Questions - what type of bag did you use? My guess is a clothing vac bag. The bag is left open vs sealed?

 

[Kevin Jenness]

I don't anticipate using the technique a lot as I am usually once-turning these days, but I have several spalted maple logs that may need steaming or boiling to avoid cracking when drying. I have had pretty good luck with slowly drying roughouts for twice-turning using sealer, paper bags and cardboard boxes and am not usually in a big yank but I can see that certain pieces would benefit from boiling or (at least theoretically) steaming. Steaming in a bag is certainly easy to do. I am interested to hear if anyone else has used steam for this purpose.

I did test out a rudimentary insulated box made of 1" foil faced foam board splined together with inside dimensions of 21.5" x 21.5" x 28" which reached the boiling point, but the pieces cupped due to being heated on one side. One could certainly make a better box using laminated foam and exterior grade plywood but it would have to be well fastened and permanent or perhaps could be made with knock-down fasteners for easier storage, but the bag seems to work well enough and could be insulated with a blanket if necessary. One steamer might suffice if the bag was well insulated. For a large volume like the timber Lou Sauzedde bends in the linked video a more powerful heat source like a propane burner would probably be necessary.

 

[robo hippy]

This makes me wonder if putting the piece in vacuum sealed plastic bags and boiling it would work. They seem to be doing a lot of cooking that way now...

robo hippy

 

[Kevin Jenness]

"Sous vide" bowls - a great marketing ploy.

 

[Randy Anderson]

My only boiling plans are for my very large hollow forms where I believe (hope) the market $ potential for them justifies the work, cost and time. For everything else I plan to stick to my standard methods - sealed for twice turned, paper bags or cardboard boxes and fans for once turned. The steaming concept is interesting so may look into that at some point.

 

[Kevin Jenness]

@Kevin Jenness
Questions - what type of bag did you use? My guess is a clothing vac bag. The bag is left open vs sealed?

I used a 6 mil poly bag from my dust collection system about 22" x 48' flat dimensions. The open end was folded over and loosely sealed with spring clips. One could get a somewhat better seal by routing the hoses through tight holes in the side of the bag and rolling the end a couple of times but it worked well enough with a somewhat leaky setup.

It takes 1 btu to raise 1 lb of water 1 degree Fahrenheit, but 970 btus to change 1 lb of 212 degree water to steam. That phase change energy is released when the steam condenses back into water, most of it inside the chamber, so one can get a large amount of heat into the workpiece while boiling a small amount of water.

 

[Alan Weinberg]

sort of relevant—steam-bending article in current issue of American Woodturner by Keith Tompkins.

 

[Alan Weinberg]

Is this big enough:
https://www.thecarycompany.com/55-g...fwI0RAMbdOpj7hyPETVBhJl0alP-EPlRoCuG4QAvD_BwE

 

[Mike Novak]

This makes me wonder if putting the piece in vacuum sealed plastic bags and boiling it would work. They seem to be doing a lot of cooking that way now...

robo hippy

I have frequently wondered about using a turkey roasting bag, sealing it up, and putting it in the oven. The water in the wood will turn to steam and be held by the bag, so it would steam it. I may try it sometime.

 

[Alan Weinberg]

Don’t forget the stuffing and gravy.

I have frequently wondered about using a turkey roasting bag, sealing it up, and putting it in the oven. The water in the wood will turn to steam and be held by the bag, so it would steam it. I may try it sometime.

 

[Randy Anderson]

Alan, it would work but I would have the same issue I have now. The inside will begin to rust. I'm hoping to find either a copper, stainless or aluminum pot.

 

[Randy Anderson]

This site has several options that would work. This is one (you would need to cut the top off of this one, but there are other options). I’m sure there are other winemaking/beer brewing suppliers with similar offerings. Maybe one close enough to you to save on shipping too.

Used 55 Gallon Stainless Steel Barrel | Closed Top (1.5 mm)

New 55 gallon stainless steel closed top barrel. 1.5 mm thick with 2 inch and 3/4" bungs included.

www.usedstainlesssteelbarrels.com

Kevin, I've looked at the stainless ones and certainly an option. Thx..

 

[JeffSmith]

Galvanized livestock trough? You’d have to seal the drain, but may work…

 

[Randy Anderson]

Jeff, I've looked at those but can't find the dimensions I need. Classic problem... lots are just barely too small and then some are way too big, but none seem to be just right.

 

[Alan Weinberg]

240 quarts is biggest stainless I can find.

New Large 240 Quart Polished Stainless Steel Stock Pot Brewing Kettle with Lid | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for New Large 240 Quart Polished Stainless Steel Stock Pot Brewing Kettle with Lid at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Unless you want to pay $1000 for a bit bigger:

NEW Large 274 Quart Polished Stainless Steel Stock Pot Brewing Kettle with Lid | eBay

Paste link into a browser window:[isdntekvideo]. We can not provide any assistance in palletizing the item. Video will open in a new window.

www.ebay.com

Free shipping!

 

[JeffSmith]

Jeff, I've looked at those but can't find the dimensions I need. Classic problem... lots are just barely too small and then some are way too big, but none seem to be just right.

Before we moved I had one that was 48” long x 24” tall x 24” wide - seems like that might work for you…Tractor Supply carrys them out here.

 

[Randy Anderson]

Jeff, thanks for the tip. When I've looked before I could find them just a bit too small or way too big, or the volume is right but the dimensions don't work. The 48" one would be a lot more water to heat up than I need. I know, I'm being picky but heating up 35 gal vs 70 gal makes a big difference. The repurposed air compressor tank with legs was a quick (and free) solution that's just the right size and shape to fit over my burner...just need it out of something that won't rust instantly. Still looking.

 

[Alan Weinberg]

Don’t forget the article on this site:
https://www.woodturner.org/common/Uploaded files/WFPortal/Wood/DryingGreenBowlsAW1202p15-17.pdf

Talks about cooking, microwave and oven drying, and combination drying.

 

[Randy Anderson]

Alan, thanks for the info. The challenge is size. It's certainly not happening in a microwave or oven for a 27" vase.

 

[Bob Brown]

Alan, thanks for the info. The challenge is size. It's certainly not happening in a microwave or oven for a 27" vase

www.virgiltreeart.com he uses a microwave

 

[JeffSmith]

I know, I'm being picky but heating up 35 gal vs 70 gal makes a big difference.

that’s why the good lord gave us rocks…

 

[Kevin Jenness]

that’s why the good lord gave us rocks…

Wouldn't you have to heat the rocks?

 

[Randy Anderson]

After a lot of searching I've decided to give my existing pot a good thick coat of some high temp paint, not a rattle can this time. That didn't work very well. It's an ideal size and shape so worth the effort to control the rust.

 

[Randy Anderson]

Second turning done today. Not much color at this point. Will come alive with finish. Couple of cracks at the bottom that were there before I boiled it but nothing new while drying. Stable now so will set aside to dry a bit more and then finish.

 

[Kevin Jenness]

Only three weeks- that was fast. How thick was the vase after rough turning? Was it dead green, and had its weight stabilized before finish turning? Is the pith contained in the bottom, and are the cracks related to that?

 

[Randy Anderson]

Kevin, the tree had been down for about a year but, as willow will do, the stump was sprouting leaves and small branches so I consider it green when cut. It sat out back as a log for a number of months but it was sprouting leaves out of the bark. Still plenty of moisture inside but not slinging water while spinning wet. Rough turning was to about 1/2" or so, boiled as you see and then into a big drying box with a tube fan inserted into the cavity and damp rid containers in the corners of the box. I don't weigh pieces to gauge stabilization. My experience over the years here in Memphis is once something hits about 13%-16% moisture level it's stable enough to set out in the open air for a bit more drying or second turning. The pith runs through the center and is off center on the bottom. Not uncommon for my pieces. The crack runs across the bottom through the pitch and was there before I put it up to dry. It grew a little while drying but not surprised. It's now inside the house where the humidity is low and will dry a bit more before I move on.

 

[Kevin Jenness]

Do you sense that boiling decreased the drying time compared to similar pieces that were not boiled? Do you think the crack would have gotten worse without boiling?

 

[Randy Anderson]

Well, my first time to boil something so I have no history to compare to. It did dry (not fully dry yet) faster than my experience with other pieces not boiled but 1 is not trend. I've read and been told by folks that do it a lot that it does speed up the drying time and reduce cracking. There's plenty of data out there that it does indeed help on those two points. No idea if the crack would have gotten worse. It's not a trivial crack but something I can deal with I think plus, no other cracks developed. In a very large piece of willow I would have expected more to develop.

I boiled another one like it yesterday. Took it out of the pot this morning and just now put in the drying box. Will see.