Suggestions please for a finish on a 6 inch bloodwood bowl.😛
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Bloodwood finish
- Thread starter cwearing
- Start date
Spray lacquer over shellac sanding sealer...
The bloodwood bowl that has been sitting on my shelf for about 8 years was finished with a sanding sealer coat of a 1 pound cut of ultra-blonde shellac, sanded back to 600, and then several spray applications of lacquer as a final finish, buffed with the Beall system including carnauba wax. The finish looks as good today as it did when I finished it. YMMV.
Rob Wallace
The bloodwood bowl that has been sitting on my shelf for about 8 years was finished with a sanding sealer coat of a 1 pound cut of ultra-blonde shellac, sanded back to 600, and then several spray applications of lacquer as a final finish, buffed with the Beall system including carnauba wax. The finish looks as good today as it did when I finished it. YMMV.
Rob Wallace
1 # cut shellac
Where do you get the 1# cut of shellac?? Hardware store have it??? Gretch
Just like my beer, I prefer to make my own...
Hi Gretch!
I mix my own from 'flakes' as it is needed - a very simple process to do this...
The shellac I use is "blonde" or "ultra blonde" which means it has been significantly refined and 'purified' from the raw lac product. Blonde shellac will effect the color the least of any of the various grades of shellac that are available. The refined shellac flakes are also considered 'de-waxed', eliminating this step in the preparation process.
To aid in dissolving the flakes in denatured alcohol, I first pulverize/powder the flakes in an inexpensive electric coffee grinder ($10) that I use just for this purpose (previous attempts using a mortar and pestle to powder the shellac flakes were far too much work; 30 seconds of grinding makes the flakes into a fine powder which dissolves very quickly compared to trying to dissolve whole flakes). For a 1 pound cut, I add 1 ounce of shellac powder to 8 fluid ounces (half pint) of denatured alcohol. The powder is dissolved by stirring; I use wide-mouthed glass jars (from salsa or pickles) which have well-sealing lids. I have an old laboratory stir plate and Teflon-covered stir bar which makes the dissolving process easy; before I had this set-up, I simply stirred occasionally by swirling the jar to suspend any undissolved flakes or powder - it eventually should all dissolve. Once all (or most) of the shellac is dissolved, I filter the solution through a paint filter into another clean jar. I use-up all of the existing batch before preparing another batch - this keeps the shellac in use relatively "fresh". NOTE: If dissolved shellac sits around for too long it can take up water from humid air and can get "gummy" and not dry well; shellac at this stage should be discarded by allowing the solvent to evaporate and dispose of solids in the trash stream; it should never be discarded by pouring down the drain. You can test the shellac you use by pouring a small puddle on a glass plate and allowing it to dry for a few hours. If it is clear and can be broken into flakes, it's still good; if it dries 'gummy' or can't be fractured into flakes, it's bad.
If memory serves, the pre-mixed shellac sold in cans (e.g. Zinsser) is mixed at about a 3-pound cut, so diluting this 1 part shellac to 2 parts denatured alcohol should work OK as a sanding sealer. The problem for me with doing this is that the pre-mixed shellacs are typically similar to garnet or amber grades (sometimes "orange" as well) which, for me, adds too much color, and in some woods can dull the vibrancy and fine scale detail of the wood that I am looking for by using a lacquer finish. Thus, I take the trouble to purchase dry, ultra-blonde shellac flakes and make my own dissolved shellac at the concentration I need, when I need it, in small batches.
Here's a short Shellac FAQ which can answer additional questions, or let me know if you need more information.
Rob Wallace
Hi Gretch!
I mix my own from 'flakes' as it is needed - a very simple process to do this...
The shellac I use is "blonde" or "ultra blonde" which means it has been significantly refined and 'purified' from the raw lac product. Blonde shellac will effect the color the least of any of the various grades of shellac that are available. The refined shellac flakes are also considered 'de-waxed', eliminating this step in the preparation process.
To aid in dissolving the flakes in denatured alcohol, I first pulverize/powder the flakes in an inexpensive electric coffee grinder ($10) that I use just for this purpose (previous attempts using a mortar and pestle to powder the shellac flakes were far too much work; 30 seconds of grinding makes the flakes into a fine powder which dissolves very quickly compared to trying to dissolve whole flakes). For a 1 pound cut, I add 1 ounce of shellac powder to 8 fluid ounces (half pint) of denatured alcohol. The powder is dissolved by stirring; I use wide-mouthed glass jars (from salsa or pickles) which have well-sealing lids. I have an old laboratory stir plate and Teflon-covered stir bar which makes the dissolving process easy; before I had this set-up, I simply stirred occasionally by swirling the jar to suspend any undissolved flakes or powder - it eventually should all dissolve. Once all (or most) of the shellac is dissolved, I filter the solution through a paint filter into another clean jar. I use-up all of the existing batch before preparing another batch - this keeps the shellac in use relatively "fresh". NOTE: If dissolved shellac sits around for too long it can take up water from humid air and can get "gummy" and not dry well; shellac at this stage should be discarded by allowing the solvent to evaporate and dispose of solids in the trash stream; it should never be discarded by pouring down the drain. You can test the shellac you use by pouring a small puddle on a glass plate and allowing it to dry for a few hours. If it is clear and can be broken into flakes, it's still good; if it dries 'gummy' or can't be fractured into flakes, it's bad.
If memory serves, the pre-mixed shellac sold in cans (e.g. Zinsser) is mixed at about a 3-pound cut, so diluting this 1 part shellac to 2 parts denatured alcohol should work OK as a sanding sealer. The problem for me with doing this is that the pre-mixed shellacs are typically similar to garnet or amber grades (sometimes "orange" as well) which, for me, adds too much color, and in some woods can dull the vibrancy and fine scale detail of the wood that I am looking for by using a lacquer finish. Thus, I take the trouble to purchase dry, ultra-blonde shellac flakes and make my own dissolved shellac at the concentration I need, when I need it, in small batches.
Here's a short Shellac FAQ which can answer additional questions, or let me know if you need more information.
Rob Wallace
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sourse of shellac flakes??
I went to hardware store and a paint store today. They had no flakes.They had a gallon of shellac sealer with 2# cut, and directions say "do not dilute".
Where do you get yours, Rob??? Gretch
I went to hardware store and a paint store today. They had no flakes.They had a gallon of shellac sealer with 2# cut, and directions say "do not dilute".
Where do you get yours, Rob??? Gretch
Gretch I get mine from woodcraft. I get both the blonde and super blonde. I mix with DNA for a 1 lb mix and 2 lb mix. Both of these are more refined as Rob said and are more expensive. I have also used the Zinsser and was told it is dewaxed and was 2 lb cut. So like Rob I mix DNA to cut it to 1 lb.
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Hi again - like Bernie, I have purchased mine from Woodcraft. Also, Woodworkers Supply sells the J.E. Moser's version of Super Blonde that I have used in the past as well. A pound lasts quite a long time if you're using a 1 pound cut and it's used primarily as a sanding sealer. The ability to mix it in small quantities keeps loss due to spoiled shellac to a minimum. It has worked well for me for the past 8 or 9 years or so..... I plan on keeping it as my primary finishing procedure before spraying lacquer.
One last hint - make sure you give the sealer coat enough time to fully dry to get the best sanding characteristics. Sanding too soon simply "gunks-up" [technical term] your sandpaper very quickly.
Good luck!
Rob
One last hint - make sure you give the sealer coat enough time to fully dry to get the best sanding characteristics. Sanding too soon simply "gunks-up" [technical term] your sandpaper very quickly.
Good luck!
Rob
shellac
Thanks Rob- I have been using Mylands sanding sealer more and more, Sure makes finishing with Deft Danish oil finish a lot quicker with alot less coats, especially on the degraded, spalted wood, or highly colored ambrosia maple I like to use. It is now getting quite expensive-like $17-18 a pint. I have quite a supply now taking advantage of the no shipping fees this last 2 weeks, but will pursue your recommendations.
How long do you wait before sanding??? With the cellulose sanding sealer it is about 5 minutes. Gretch
Thanks Rob- I have been using Mylands sanding sealer more and more, Sure makes finishing with Deft Danish oil finish a lot quicker with alot less coats, especially on the degraded, spalted wood, or highly colored ambrosia maple I like to use. It is now getting quite expensive-like $17-18 a pint. I have quite a supply now taking advantage of the no shipping fees this last 2 weeks, but will pursue your recommendations.
How long do you wait before sanding??? With the cellulose sanding sealer it is about 5 minutes. Gretch
Gretch asked:
Well, I allow the pieces to dry considerably longer than 5 minutes! More on the order of an hour or two minimum if I am in a rush.
Most of my finishing I do in "batches" of several pieces being finished at the same time; I group all of the similar operations and do them on several pieces. I process between 4 and 10 (depending on size) pieces as a cohort, and finish turn, sand, seal, re-sand, spray, and buff all of them as a batch (this saves considerable time). I would say that as a general wait & dry time, about 4 hours has worked well for me, however this really can vary with temperature, type of wood (porosity), how heavy a wash coat of shellac was put on, etc. More often it's overnight. I don't like to rush the finishing process, since doing things too prematurely wastes far more time spent in recovery efforts following mistakes than just waiting in the first place. (Don't ask me how I know that!)
If the surface of the piece is cool to the touch relative to the room temperature, then it likely is still off-gassing the alcohol and it's too soon to begin sanding. If the surface of the piece is "warm and dry", then I suppose it would be OK to begin sanding. For areas of excess shellac build up, I use #1 steel wool to knock-back these areas first (saves sandpaper), and then begin general sanding, usually at about 180 or so. I then sand through 400 or 600, and then begin spraying the lacquer.
Hope this helps!
Happy New Year!
Rob
Well, I allow the pieces to dry considerably longer than 5 minutes! More on the order of an hour or two minimum if I am in a rush.
Most of my finishing I do in "batches" of several pieces being finished at the same time; I group all of the similar operations and do them on several pieces. I process between 4 and 10 (depending on size) pieces as a cohort, and finish turn, sand, seal, re-sand, spray, and buff all of them as a batch (this saves considerable time). I would say that as a general wait & dry time, about 4 hours has worked well for me, however this really can vary with temperature, type of wood (porosity), how heavy a wash coat of shellac was put on, etc. More often it's overnight. I don't like to rush the finishing process, since doing things too prematurely wastes far more time spent in recovery efforts following mistakes than just waiting in the first place. (Don't ask me how I know that!)
If the surface of the piece is cool to the touch relative to the room temperature, then it likely is still off-gassing the alcohol and it's too soon to begin sanding. If the surface of the piece is "warm and dry", then I suppose it would be OK to begin sanding. For areas of excess shellac build up, I use #1 steel wool to knock-back these areas first (saves sandpaper), and then begin general sanding, usually at about 180 or so. I then sand through 400 or 600, and then begin spraying the lacquer.
Hope this helps!
Happy New Year!
Rob
I have used Minwax prestain on several pieces of cherry--it does help with the blotching. I don't have enough experience to understand the difference between the Minwax product and the shellac solutions addressed here.