Best woods for thread chasing.

[Dan Moerman]

I've been dabbling in thread chasing lately, but have had trouble finding wood that really takes threads. Most of the literature (mainly British, I think) says that box wood (which I think it probably some sort of Buxus) which is a very rare introduced species in the US found in a few counties in Virginia and North Carolina; so, not practical. I've seen mention of osage orange (Maclura) as a good threading wood, but it's pretty uncommon, too. So, does anyone have any experience with decent, native species of wood, which are more or less readily found which take good threads? (Oak (ordinarily wonderful to turn) is awful; hard maple is better but still not good.) Any suggestions appreciated. In particular, I'm looking for wood which occurs in the great lakes region.

 

[hockenbery]

I've been dabbling in thread chasing lately, but have had trouble finding wood that really takes threads. Most of the literature (mainly British, I think) says that box wood (which I think it probably some sort of Buxus) which is a very rare introduced species in the US found in a few counties in Virginia and North Carolina; so, not practical. I've seen mention of osage orange (Maclura) as a good threading wood, but it's pretty uncommon, too. So, does anyone have any experience with decent, native species of wood, which are more or less readily found which take good threads? (Oak (ordinarily wonderful to turn) is awful; hard maple is better but still not good.) Any suggestions appreciated. In particular, I'm looking for wood which occurs in the great lakes region.

I have had good success with dogwood and holly.

Boxwood is used as hedge in some places.

Have fun,
Al

 

[john lucas]

A lot of the exotics thread well. Cocobolo, Blackwood, Ebony, Catalox, Mark StLeger uses Hard Maple a lot. I haven't had any of that to play with so can't say yea or nay. What I do on a lot of soft woods that need threads is to cut a groove and fill it with epoxy. Then I turn away the wood and chase your threads in the epoxy. I do this for boxes out of woods that I know won't take threads.

 

[Richard Coers]

Try some fruit woods like pear, apple, or crab apple. Did you try soaking the wood with thin CA?

 

[robo hippy]

Well, if you are using the mechanical thread chasing set up, just about any wood will work. If you are hand chasing, from Allen Batty, 'the only American wood that is good for hand chasing threads is Mountain Mahogany'. It isn't a mahogany, but it is called that because of the red color. You won't find it in any wood stores. It prefers high mountain desert on the west coast. I have found that waxing and oiling the threads after you get about half way in helps with some of the woods that want to splinter and chip. Never had much luck with the CA glue though. You want smooth even grain, which is why holly, dogwood, hard maple, and maybe pear can work. You can practice with PVC pipe.

robo hippy

 

[Bill Boehme]

Corian works well, but it's not a wood.

 

[Richard Coers]

If you think about alternative materials, I get some 1 1/2" black ABS fittings at Menards. $1.70 gets you a female and male adaptor that you can chuck up and part off the length of thread you want.

 

[Dean Center]

Well, if you are using the mechanical thread chasing set up, just about any wood will work. If you are hand chasing, from Allen Batty, 'the only American wood that is good for hand chasing threads is Mountain Mahogany'. It isn't a mahogany, but it is called that because of the red color. You won't find it in any wood stores. It prefers high mountain desert on the west coast. I have found that waxing and oiling the threads after you get about half way in helps with some of the woods that want to splinter and chip. Never had much luck with the CA glue though. You want smooth even grain, which is why holly, dogwood, hard maple, and maybe pear can work. You can practice with PVC pipe.
robo hippy

The hardest and most widespread variety of mountain mahogany is generally found in the Great Basin, while a less common and slightly less hard species is found from about Salt Lake City north to just into Montana. Both only grow in the driest and harshest environments that turnable sized wood will grow. A large portion of the range of both is on BLM land and the agency was not allowing anyone to cut it several years ago when I inquired. It's so slow growing that a 4" specimen could be many decades old (hence the fine grain and good threading properties). Our now-deceased local mentor recommended it for threading and made a very nice box with a machine threaded lid and rose engine carved top out of some that I managed to acquire from non-BLM land.

Craft Supplies has a very helpful, free Allan Batty video on hand thread chasing, including appropriate woods here: https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/Video/280

 

[robo hippy]

I took a trip to Las Vegas several years back. The US Forest Service regularly thins the Mountain Mahogany for fire safety. I picked up a ton or two. It was growing at 8500 feet. My buddy that I took with me had to show the local Forest Service office how to write a fire wood permit... A couple of them were 14 inch diameter, and none over 20 feet tall. I have heard of some from lower elevations that grow taller and straighter. It is far more common than I ever knew, and now that I recognize the tree, I see many more of them. Most are in the shrub size. At 5,000 feet, the Juniper is the dominant tree, but higher and dryer, the MM takes over. I tried a couple of guitar fret boards out of it. While beautiful, it never seems to stop moving.

robo hippy

 

[Mike Peace]

I have had good luck with dogwood and bradford pear. I have not tried persimmon but would expect it to do well.

 

[nicksilva]

The denser the wood the better. There is less tear out.
the denser woods tend to be the exotic hard woods, although big points to American
woods like Mesquite and boxwood.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

The denser the wood the better. There is less tear out.
the denser woods tend to be the exotic hard woods, although big points to American
woods like Mesquite and boxwood.

I have been looking for american boxwood, do you know where to find some?

 

[john lucas]

I looked for boxwood a few years ago and was not able to find a resource. Hope you have better luck.

 

[Tim Rinehart]

I got some red tip photinia years ago, another tree that most encounter as more of a bush, but they can get quite large if not succumb to a blight they are prone to. I asked a friend who does ornamental turning about it and if a 'good wood' to grab, and he said it's about as close to European Boxwood as they come. I've done some experimenting with thread chasing, and it's as good as blackwood or African olivewood (another good wood for hand chasing). It is extremely hard and tight grained. Pretty stable too, my 4 year old short log sections have only minimally checked. Here's a yelper I made from a piece, to see color.

 

[robo hippy]

Boxwood is fairly common as an ornamental shrub. I talked to my arborist friend, and he said it stinks. I did luck out and have a couple on my property that will have to come down since the shop will sit on top of them, and the cedar they are under is too closely intertwined with them to make transplanting possible. I haven't tried the hand chasing yet...

robo hippy

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I looked for boxwood a few years ago and was not able to find a resource. Hope you have better luck.

I did, but I paid a lot for shipping. Traded a big box of Koa for a big box go Boxwood from England... Looking for some in the USA...

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Boxwood is fairly common as an ornamental shrub. I talked to my arborist friend, and he said it stinks. I did luck out and have a couple on my property that will have to come down since the shop will sit on top of them, and the cedar they are under is too closely intertwined with them to make transplanting possible. I haven't tried the hand chasing yet...

robo hippy

Because I like you I will give you a warning: do not try chasing threads! Its highly addicting, no known cure yet, you will be trying all the woods around your shop to see if they take threads, then you will start buying and trading timber all over the world!! Multiply your wood turning addiction by a 100...

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

By "chasing" I assume that refers to the tools that are hand fed. In that case the type of wood will be a major factor.

On the other hand, if you're using a thread cutting jig you can compensate for unfavorable woods by using a "climb" cut. You do that by positioning the cutter on the side of the work that gives that type cut. A climb cut is less likely to produce tear outs.

Climb cutting is the same as feeding your hand held router the wrong direction. With a hand held router it's difficult to control the tendency of the router wanting to self feed, usually very fast. With a threading jig you should have enough control to safely climb cut.

One thing about most threaded lid boxes I've seen is how fine the threads are. Given a choice I'd much rather have a box with a very coarse thread similar to a bottle thread where a half turn or a single full turn is all that's needed. It's not practical to hand chase that coarse a thread pitch. I'm not sure any of the threading jigs even go that coarse either though.

 

[john lucas]

Doug The newest jig on the market (I think it's may be sold by Carter but I'm not sure. It's blue plastic) will do a double cut thread if I remember correctly. That will move twice as fast as a normal thread. I agree with you it would be nice to have a courser thread but then that requires a deeper thread and corresponding thicker walls which isn't attractive on most smaller boxes. What we need is a helical thread.

 

[stu senator]

It would seem that an acme thread with a 29 degree angle and a flat top <http://www.engineersedge.com/hardware/external_acme_thread_13360.htm> or something like a whitworth thread <http://www.boltscience.com/pages/screw4.htm> with rounded roots and crests would be better to cut in wood. Don't know if tools are made for this last one.

Single point tools can be made for both of these and used on a metal lathe to cut threads.

The threads on most jars (see mason jars) are rounded. Some one may make single point tools for this to cut the molds.

This may be an opportunity for someone to do research and future tool sales.

Diclaimer, I do not want to become any more addicted or do I need (want yes) any more tools.

Stu

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

It never occurred to me to even considered a jig for cutting threads. Just like a duplicator, I do not like to take the fun out of turning or the challenge involved in thread chasing. The only time I would recommend a jig is if someone can't afford the dense timber needed for chasing threads. Other than that, why spend $500 on jig when a few tools do the same or better job. Hand chase threads are surprisingly easy to do with the right timber...

 

[Bill Boehme]

Doug The newest jig on the market .... will do a double cut thread if I remember correctly. That will move twice as fast as a normal thread. .....

You can do that when hand chasing threads, but it's considered an error caused by not properly synchronizing the feed rate with the lathe speed.

 

[robo hippy]

I did hand chasing once, under the guidance of Alan Batty. Just enough to get an idea of what goes on. I had a 2 day work shop with Bonnie Klein as well. The mechanical cutters make it possible to cut threads in just about any wood, where hand chasing is more limited. From what I have seen of the 'new' variations of thread cutting set ups, they pivot side ways to make it easier to check threads for fit. I don't know if the Baxter threading set up is still available or not. Though I haven't used the newer models, I think I would prefer the old standard X Y jig type. Main thing to me is I used waste blocks rather than a chuck mount. With the waste blocks, you can turn a bunch of bottoms at one time, then turn a bunch of tops at one time rather than one box through to completion. To check the threads, I used a pencil mark on the boxes (both pieces with grain lined up at 12 o'clock). Then it was using a thin spacer block (steel rule off of a tri square between the cutter and the box part), so I could slide it back into the exact same spot. I think Baxter came up with some thing similar. This method also made it a lot easier to 'time' the threads/get the threads to line up. Start the bottom at 12 o'clock and the top at 10 o'clock @ 16 tpi, and I would have less than 1/4 rotation to get them perfectly in line, Very time consuming no matter how I did them though....

robo hippy

 

[stu senator]

There are other methods of fastening the lid to a box beside friction or threads.

Look at the way a smoke alarm is fastened to a base plate. (at least in the ones I have)

It is a tab in a slot.

If you turn a slot in both the base and top making them the same width and located the slot width from the top surface. Then proceed to machine longitudinal cuts (parallel to the axis) so the parts fit together. These can be made locking by adjusting the slot width and location and machining a taper to the tabs.

This way you are not limited to specific woods and are free to pursue your art or craft (as you see it) based on the wood and design you choose.

I am sure that there other simple fastening methods (beside threaded inserts) to attach the top to the bottom of a box.

Stu

 

[Bill Boehme]

There are other methods of fastening the lid to a box beside friction or threads.

Look at the way a smoke alarm is fastened to a base plate. (at least in the ones I have)

It is a tab in a slot.

If you turn a slot in both the base and top making them the same width and located the slot width from the top surface. Then proceed to machine longitudinal cuts (parallel to the axis) so the parts fit together. These can be made locking by adjusting the slot width and location and machining a taper to the tabs.

This way you are not limited to specific woods and are free to pursue your art or craft (as you see it) based on the wood and design you choose.

I am sure that there other simple fastening methods (beside threaded inserts) to attach the top to the bottom of a box.

Stu

How about some pictures showing your method. I am completely lost in your word description. I removed one of our smoke detectors from its mounting base a couple weeks ago and it has a quarter turn mount.

 

[hockenbery]

Saw Alan Batty doma threads with a gouge.
He just pulled the tip across to cuts groove and leave a thread on both pieces

And then it screwed on and stayed for the demo.
I'm guessing it is still holding wherever it is.

 

[Bill Wells]

Any ideas on generic wood properties for threading boxes?
I have read the excellent suggestions above, including recommendation on density. What about:
Hardness?
Strength?

Thanks
Bill

 

[john lucas]

Stu I have done exactly what you say using my router on a table in my banjo. It was a pain back then but I have better tooling now so might try it again. I used 3 slots and 3 tabs. The trick is setting up stops on the index wheel. So you feed the router in and then rotate the piece. I used what is called a screw slot router bit. Push it in to cut a slot and then rotate the piece to create a groove for the mating piece. Doing the lid is easier because you just waste away wood between the tabs. I'll have to make a sketch to remember exactly how I did it.

 

[stu senator]

John could you post a picture, if you have one, for Bill B as what I wrote was a thought experiment, not something I actually did.

I am in the process of trying to move to FL from NY and as a result am packing and sorting stuff. As we have TMS (too much stuff) as I am sure most people my age do this can be a problem to actually doing any real work.

Also the boxes I actually have done were friction fits. The topic just got me interested in alternate solutions. I will confess to being an engineer as my excuse if any is needed.

Stu

 

[Bill Boehme]

John could you post a picture, if you have one, for Bill B as what I wrote was a thought experiment, not something I actually did.

I am in the process of trying to move to FL from NY and as a result am packing and sorting stuff. As we have TMS (too much stuff) as I am sure most people my age do this can be a problem to actually doing any real work.

Also the boxes I actually have done were friction fits. The topic just got me interested in alternate solutions. I will confess to being an engineer as my excuse if any is needed.

Stu

I understand being an engineer and always looking for a better solution. I didn't know that TMS was an actual condition or just a manifestation of the real condition, NES (not enough space). However, "stuff" has the gaseous property of occupying whatever volume is available.

 

[stu senator]

I understand being an engineer and always looking for a better solution. I didn't know that TMS was an actual condition or just a manifestation of the real condition, NES (not enough space). However, "stuff" has the gaseous property of occupying whatever volume is available.

I thought that it was spontaneous generation that caused stuff to multiply as when I put something away, say in a drawer, and then look for it later the drawer is now full of lots of other stuff that just appeared.

Stu

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I did hand chasing once, under the guidance of Alan Batty. Just enough to get an idea of what goes on. I had a 2 day work shop with Bonnie Klein as well. The mechanical cutters make it possible to cut threads in just about any wood, where hand chasing is more limited. From what I have seen of the 'new' variations of thread cutting set ups, they pivot side ways to make it easier to check threads for fit. I don't know if the Baxter threading set up is still available or not. Though I haven't used the newer models, I think I would prefer the old standard X Y jig type. Main thing to me is I used waste blocks rather than a chuck mount. With the waste blocks, you can turn a bunch of bottoms at one time, then turn a bunch of tops at one time rather than one box through to completion. To check the threads, I used a pencil mark on the boxes (both pieces with grain lined up at 12 o'clock). Then it was using a thin spacer block (steel rule off of a tri square between the cutter and the box part), so I could slide it back into the exact same spot. I think Baxter came up with some thing similar. This method also made it a lot easier to 'time' the threads/get the threads to line up. Start the bottom at 12 o'clock and the top at 10 o'clock @ 16 tpi, and I would have less than 1/4 rotation to get them perfectly in line, Very time consuming no matter how I did them though....

robo hippy

Huh?? lol I lost you at did hand chasing once... Because I have to price my work, I usually keep an eye on a big wall clock... I can turn a decent hand chased thread box in under one hour. That's without any hiccups... If I do one with inserts, it takes me about 5 hours, can't get my money on those... So the few that I have made, they are in my collection... Good idea of doing a bunch of bottoms...

 

[robo hippy]

I never timed myself on boxes, but would guess that I had an hour apiece in them with the Klein Jig. Getting the positioning corrected so that I had minimal adjustment of the lid shoulder to get the grain to line up saved a lot of time, but still too much labor. I got to see Eric Loffstrom a few weeks back who does friction fitted lids, and that is a bit faster, but still very time consuming. Labor of love I guess.... Now bowls on the other hand were a lot better for me in $/hour...

robo hippy

 

[Tim Rinehart]

On using coarser threads for hand chasing...it's a more difficult learning curve. Coarser threads (less thread per inch/mm) result in having your chasing tool move much quicker axially. You have to subsequently dial down the speed to have better control, with the result of also not having as clean a finish on the threads. Unless you're really skilled and willing to put in a lot of practice hand chasing, stick to 20 tpi...IMO.

 

[john lucas]

I don't have a photo of the box I did that had a sort of 3 cam lock kind of lid. I'll try to build one in the next few weeks. This week is kind of full turning pens for out club and getting ready for a photo demo on Saturday.
I chase threads as course as 11 tpi and they don't seem any harder to me than the 20. I built my self a sort of mini lathe out of angle iron and a router for the headstock. My Baxter threader fits on that. So it's very fast to go from the lathe to the threader, cut the threads and back to the lathe. When I got the threader I made threaded lid boxes until I paid it off. didn't really take that long.

 

[Tim Rinehart]

... I chase threads as course as 11 tpi and they don't seem any harder to me than the 20. .

Hi John, I meant the comment about thread density as specific to hand-chasing...tools like the Baxter threader and various home made variants are a great equalizer to allow nearly anyone to make decent threads. Been meaning to convert an x-y table of mine for that very purpose. Hand-chasing takes more practice or slower speeds that some folks lathes won't be capable of, and/or would require a quicker response. Especially true when doing shallow inside threads in a box or lid where it's possible to have the threads ripped right off from not dis-engaging the chasing tool quick enough.

 

[john lucas]

Tim I was talking about hand chasing. I do have the baxter threader but it only does 16 tpi. Can't afford to change that right now. I have hand chaser from 11 to 20. Would have to look to tell you which ones I have in between those.

 

[Adam Cottrill]

I have often wondered if hophornbeam (Ostrya virginiana) wouldn't thread well. It is dense, close grained and should be readily available in the Great Lakes region, although you would probably have better luck finding it at a firewood lot than a wood dealer. I had a small log that I cut into small planks for plane soles before I was sucked into the turning vortex. Those planks are very hard, find grained, and dense, too bad they are only 1/2" thick.

Another wood that might be worth looking into is Hawthorne. Adam Luna suggested it as a viable threading wood at about the 10:00 minute mark of a recent youtube video posted by the Rocky Mountain Woodturners on threaded boxes. I have been meaning to look into both of these woods for creating threaded boxes, but still haven't got around to it. I would be interested to hear if anyone else any any experience threading either one of them.

Adam C.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I haven't but if you send me a piece I'll let you know. Lol. Aloha