Best place for the tenon on a box???

[Richard Preston]

Hi,
Have seen a number of boxes where the box becomes unattractive when the top is set beside the base. And I have seen some where it works.
The tenon on the base just makes the box look unfinished in many cases. Or not thought thru. The box may be exquisite but the tenon looks like cinder block construction.
I prefer the tenon to be in the top so that when they sit upright next to one another there is no disharmony.
Perhaps someone knows of a physical reason why the tenon is usually in the base?
Thanks

 

[Ken Grunke]

Richard, I can agree with you that with the tenon in the lid the base looks more attractive as it can stand on it's own as a seperate form without the lid--the tenon in the base gives it a mechanical look which can detract from the form.
The main reason for putting the tenon on the base is so the contents can come up to the rim and not be pushed down by a tenon in the lid. That's the only reason I've heard, and I'm not sure it's that big of a deal. Put the tenon in the lid if you want, I say.

 

[Ron Sardo]

I too agree with you, but as Ken mentioned it just works better.

I make my tenons either way, depending on the mood I'm in.

 

[Claude]

I always do the tenon on the lid.
I never found pretty an open box with e tnon. Most of the time , if not always, it destroys the harmony of the overal curve.

 

[john lucas]

I do it both ways. If I put the tenon on the lid I usually make the box a little thicker so the tenon lays flush with the insides. Or it might just sit on a lip such as a sugar bowl with a lid that fits inside. If I do a needle box I put a long tenon on the body that the lid slides over.
Snap fit, loose fit or friction fit. That's up to you. I like friction fit or snap fit lids on small boxes that can easily fit in your hand. On larger boxes I prefer the lid to be loose enough that you can pick up the lid and the box stays on the table. I've seen too many people pick up a box by the lid and then the bottom falls on the floor. Pill boxes and needle boxes fall in the snap fit or friction fit category. Anyting larger than that and I try to make the lid fit so thiers no slop but it will come off when you grab the lid without lifting the box.

 

[John Nicholas]

Lid V Body

Raffin lists a number of reasons for this in his box making book.

1. Storage space (already mentioned)
2. Easier to form a pop fit according to Raffin's technique.
3. Easier to overcome a bad fit. Yes, you sacrifice some of the height, but
you save the box.
4. He shows some pictures that make one rethink the form issue of the
tenon on the base making an open box look bad.

There maybe more in his book, the above are what I remember.

John

 

[pencheff]

Hi,
Perhaps someone knows of a physical reason why the tenon is usually in the base?

One more thought on the subject. With the tenon in the lid, as the box sits open, the thin rimmed mortise on the top of the box is exposed to damage. If it becomes chipped or split the the box is now ugly 100% of the time as that part is visible when the box is open or closed. If the thin walled tenon is on the box and the tenon becomes chipped or split the box is only ugly when it's open.

 

[MichaelMouse]

Sometimes you put the tenon where it is to make use of a couple of scraps. This is an end trim from a piece of firewood about 3" by 3.5" and a piece of 5/8" scrap from a drawer front.

Oh yes, and a touch of cherry for the tenon, so as not to look too squatty. Got it sanded and a few rubs of shellac on it this morning.

 

[Brodie Brickey]

Alternate idea???

I don't turn a lot of boxes, but could you put the tenon in the top and make a receiver in the base (kinda like a pocket door) so the tenon slides between the inside and outside? I'm sure its doable, but not easy. The tenon would also have to be thin. Wood movement may also be an issue.

 

[Joe Greiner]

I tried something similar to this on a lidded bowl, with vertical splines (made from tongue depressors) between grooves in both the lid and the bowl. The slope on the lid made it unworkable, and in fact the lid bit the dust during final turning. Should work OK for a box, though. Splines could be glued into either the lid or the box, or both for circumferential control (i.e. to align grain); and for absolute control, the splines could be unequal so the lid fits only one way. This would also raise the lid when off the box.

Joe

 

[MichaelMouse]

I don't turn a lot of boxes, but could you put the tenon in the top and make a receiver in the base (kinda like a pocket door) so the tenon slides between the inside and outside? I'm sure its doable, but not easy. The tenon would also have to be thin. Wood movement may also be an issue.

Actually, if you taper the tenon down or up on both sides, matching with the groove and the base, even a face grain setup will self center throughout seasonal changes. Won't give you a piece that will lift by the lid, but that's a problem with any arrangement, even with pieces from the same length. They'll oval slightly with moisture changes and fit only in one direction as well. If you've got to have a tight fit, groove the standing tenon for an "O" ring. Hydraulics places will have sizes suitable to most tenon sizes. Make the wood loose and let the rubber do it.

NB : Rubber bands turn to dust too fast to be workable in the long term.