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Bent Gouge Mystery

Emiliano Achaval

Emiliano Achaval

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Dec 14, 2015
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Location
Maui, Hawaii
Website
hawaiiankoaturner.com
I have a friend/student/beginner that comes about twice a week to turn. He helps with the cleanup, I'm enjoying his company. Last week I had to leave, and he was finishing a bowl. We decided that he could stay, complete the bowl, clean up, and close the shop. He later texted me that the shop was all clean (nice!) and that the bowl flew off the lathe, he was fine... I started to regret my decision of leaving him alone.
He came today. I immediately noticed his brand new 5/8 Thompson gouge with a slight bend! How much you ask? Enough that when the gouge was on my desk, it's noticeable at a glance. He claims he didn't have a catch. I told him bowls don't fly off the lathe by themselves, well, they do, but you know what I mean. I had a steep learning curve, had probably more catches that your average turner, I never had a gouge bend on me, and I had some spectacular catches... If he did have a catch and it's too embarrassed to admit it, I can't believe he was able to bend the gouge. Indeed a mystery, how did he do it? Gouge still totally usable.
Today, he did another Koa small bowl, when he started the inside I asked him to please switch to his Hunter Viceroy tool, much safer, as I did not have time for a lesson, and I feel he needs more practice time with me next to him and his gouge...
 
Hi Emiliano,
It would be interesting to see where the bend actually starts.If it was closer to the handle them that would fit John's theory. If it is closer to the tip given the type of steel and thickness I think it would take an incredible amount of force to bend.
 
Hmm, I think I would have a difficult time bending a 5/8 inch Thompson gouge, and I am on the Brute Squad.... Biggest problem most have when turning the inside of a bowl seems to be having the flutes straight up rather than rolled over. I always have mine almost all the way on the side, that way the inside wing can not catch....

robo hippy
 
I bend 1/2steel.pretty easily using a 3 foot piece of pipe. I have bent 3/4" using the same pipe but certainly takes more work. I would thing if you hung 4 or 5 inches o er a tool.rest and hit it hard with some force it would not be hard to rear a little bend.
 
An embarrassing admission, but I was once turning a bowl several years ago, had it almost done. In fact I had taken it out of the chuck, noticed a spot that needed a little more work. Re-chucked it and somehow didn't get the jaws tight on the tenon or something, I'll never know. But the second I touched it with the gouge it popped out, banged on the ways, hit the floor and broke into several pieces. I cussed, hit the bed of the lathe with the gouge, and had a little bit of a tantrum. Bent the gouge, a Sorby 1/2" bowl gouge. So, yes, you can bend a gouge without getting a catch.
 
Things can happen. What is indestructible isn't. This is a bit off topic but, to illustrate, we bought a toy tire at Petco for our son's Lab. The label said it was indestructible. Hogan had it in tiny pieces in three days.
 
john lucas said:
I bend 1/2steel.pretty easily using a 3 foot piece of pipe. I have bent 3/4" using the same pipe but certainly takes more work. I would thing if you hung 4 or 5 inches o er a tool.rest and hit it hard with some force it would not be hard to rear a little bend.
Click to expand...

So, John, why were you using a cheater bar to bend bowl gouges? :D
 
Curtis Fuller said:
An embarrassing admission, but I was once turning a bowl several years ago, had it almost done. In fact I had taken it out of the chuck, noticed a spot that needed a little more work. Re-chucked it and somehow didn't get the jaws tight on the tenon or something, I'll never know. But the second I touched it with the gouge it popped out, banged on the ways, hit the floor and broke into several pieces. I cussed, hit the bed of the lathe with the gouge, and had a little bit of a tantrum. Bent the gouge, a Sorby 1/2" bowl gouge. So, yes, you can bend a gouge without getting a catch.
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Thanks for letting me know, I had no idea it was possible!!
 
Stan Semeniuk said:
Hi Emiliano,
It would be interesting to see where the bend actually starts.If it was closer to the handle them that would fit John's theory. If it is closer to the tip given the type of steel and thickness I think it would take an incredible amount of force to bend.
Click to expand...
I will take a picture next time he comes around...
 
I was making a special tool to turn those hard to reach places. :) No really I was making my hollowing tools. I made a set of 1/2" tools and set of 3/4" tools.
 

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Ive had a Savannah branded carbide scraper bend with little provocation while hollowing some red oak. It seemed to be some untempered steel that was narrowed drastically going in to the handle and had no strength. I heated and hammered it flat again and set it deeper into the handle so the wide part was supported and no more problem.
 
Bill Blasic said:
Emiliano No way did I mean Doug was responsible, just call for his advice.
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I know what you mean. And you know Doug, he will send a new one no questions asked, and I don’t think it’s fair. Operator error should not be covered under the amazing warranty and the best customer service, LOL
 
I was closely inspecting the chuck on the lathe yesterday. It was a good guess that he hit the jaws. I found no marks whatsoever on the chuck or the jaws... I did see a nice catch on the inside of the bowl he made, close to the rim. I’m liking the Viceroy tool more and more to get beginners started. This particular turner, all he wants to do is pots for Orchids. That’s it. He raises orchids, and as presents he wants wooden pots... I felt it was necessary to get him started on a gouge... Hmmm...
 
He may have turned all way to bottom and was doing "the one more " always to the rim which had probably moved causing the incident.....possible.
 
charlie knighton said:
He may have turned all way to bottom and was doing "the one more " always to the rim which had probably moved causing the incident.....possible.
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Funny thing is my friend is entirely unaware as to how bad he could have been hurt. He honestly believes he did not have a catch, LOL I think it is @Johnlucas that shows how you get catches on a video. Me, I do not actually go thru the catch on purpose, I just show what can happen. Maybe I should ....
 
Emiliano Achaval said:
Funny thing is my friend is entirely unaware as to how bad he could have been hurt. He honestly believes he did not have a catch, LOL I think it is @Johnlucas that shows how you get catches on a video. Me, I do not actually go thru the catch on purpose, I just show what can happen. Maybe I should ....
Click to expand...
Tim Yoder has "Catch Videos" available.
 
Tim's catch videos are hilarious. Richard Raffen also has some catch videos.. I dont have any because I've never had a catch.
 
It's possible that his turning is sort of like mine was when I first started in 2004 ... it was basically one long continuous catch that was periodically interrupted by a really big catch. Here is a picture of my first "bowl".

image.jpeg

Initially, I had a whopper catch that knocked off a sizeable chunk (see the blue dots that mark the break line), but I wasn't going to let a minor setback like that deter me from what I envisioned as a beautiful bowl in the making. It was probably a waste of good glue to stick it back together especially in hindsight because shortly after the glue dried I had one final catch that didn't offer much room for a design change. I don't remember what tool I was using, but I obviously was using it incorrectly although at the time I was sure that the blame belonged to the wood.

I keep this piece as a reminder of where I was once upon a time and the help that was given by kind and patient mentors to get me beyond that stage.
 
Bill Boehme said:
It's possible that his turning is sort of like mine was when I first started in 2004 ... it was basically one long continuous catch that was periodically interrupted by a really big catch. Here is a picture of my first "bowl".

View attachment 27664

Initially, I had a whopper catch that knocked off a sizeable chunk (see the blue dots that mark the break line), but I wasn't going to let a minor setback like that deter me from what I envisioned as a beautiful bowl in the making. It was probably a waste of good glue to stick it back together especially in hindsight because shortly after the glue dried I had one final catch that didn't offer much room for a design change. I don't remember what tool I was using, but I obviously was using it incorrectly although at the time I was sure that the blame belonged to the wood.

I keep this piece as a reminder of where I was once upon a time and the help that was given by kind and patient mentors to get me beyond that stage.
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You gave me a good laugh! You probably can find the tool you were using; it's the bent one in the tool rack!!
 
Hmm bent, well you can straighten them out I bent one years ago. Straightened it out took about an hour or so 5/16 P&N still have it to this day. HSS will bend as its not hardened to the max, if so it would simple break with a decent catch and cause way more issues.
 
hughie said:
Hmm bent, well you can straighten them out I bent one years ago. Straightened it out took about an hour or so 5/16 P&N still have it to this day. HSS will bend as its not hardened to the max, if so it would simple break with a decent catch and cause way more issues.
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Do you remember if it was an epic catch or just an average? Far from the tool rest or close by?
 
Maybe I should post a picture of the results of my epic catch. I was on the inside of one of my first bowls with way too much overhang, very dry wood,,,bammm. My 1/2" gouge is about 4" shorter. I haven't had a catch since then. Not really, but I am much more careful.
 
Mike Zip Hamilton said:
Maybe I should post a picture of the results of my epic catch. I was on the inside of one of my first bowls with way too much overhang, very dry wood,,,bammm. My 1/2" gouge is about 4" shorter. I haven't had a catch since then. Not really, but I am much more careful.
Click to expand...
As long as one doesn't get hurt catches help teach important lessons, the bigger the catch, the more you learn, LOL
 
Emiliano Achaval said:
I have a friend/student/beginner that comes about twice a week to turn. He helps with the cleanup, I'm enjoying his company. Last week I had to leave, and he was finishing a bowl. We decided that he could stay, complete the bowl, clean up, and close the shop. He later texted me that the shop was all clean (nice!) and that the bowl flew off the lathe, he was fine... I started to regret my decision of leaving him alone.
He came today. I immediately noticed his brand new 5/8 Thompson gouge with a slight bend! How much you ask? Enough that when the gouge was on my desk, it's noticeable at a glance. He claims he didn't have a catch. I told him bowls don't fly off the lathe by themselves, well, they do, but you know what I mean. I had a steep learning curve, had probably more catches that your average turner, I never had a gouge bend on me, and I had some spectacular catches... If he did have a catch and it's too embarrassed to admit it, I can't believe he was able to bend the gouge. Indeed a mystery, how did he do it? Gouge still totally usable.
Today, he did another Koa small bowl, when he started the inside I asked him to please switch to his Hunter Viceroy tool, much safer, as I did not have time for a lesson, and I feel he needs more practice time with me next to him and his gouge...
Click to expand...
Update: Talked to Doug Thompson about it and we both agreed that this is operator error, so to speak, but he will be replacing the gouge at no cost. This was the reason why I didn't want to call him, I knew he would send a new one, I feel its not his fault and is not necessary to replace it. But I wanted to let everyone know how amazing Doug is, he stands behind his tools 100% I got a short video of the tool. I noticed a small dent on the handle. Proof that there was a catch. My friend still stands by his story, no catch, lol.
 

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I just recently had a parting tool catch and bend. Last 1.5 inches. bent about 15 degrees out of straight. I was parting off a small piece and tried to do a slight concave under the piece coming off the lathe. Suddenly the tip caught and the parting tool flipped on it's side and bam! Now it appears to be an early and cheaply made carbide tool. Looks like a normal parting tool, but has a tiny hardened piece of metal somehow welded into the tip. It was only an eighth inch thick. But darn.
 
Emiliano Achaval said:
Update: Talked to Doug Thompson about it and we both agreed that this is operator error, so to speak, but he will be replacing the gouge at no cost. This was the reason why I didn't want to call him, I knew he would send a new one, I feel its not his fault and is not necessary to replace it. But I wanted to let everyone know how amazing Doug is, he stands behind his tools 100% I got a short video of the tool. I noticed a small dent on the handle. Proof that there was a catch. My friend still stands by his story, no catch, lol.
Click to expand...
Now that is much more of a bend than I expected when you first mentioned this on the board...and whether he mentions it or not, I'm betting that that catch scared the pure crap out of your friend. Doug is one of the cornerstones of our turning community from a tools perspective and a first-class gentleman to boot. A short tale. My non-turning son contacted Doug at Christmas time to get me a couple of Thompson tools as a present. Absolutely not knowing what tools might be a suitable gift, my son and Doug exchanged pictures and discussions of my shop tools and Doug led him to what options might be the best for the gift. Of course I love the tools...but the real spinoff is that my son now has this great tale that he shares with anyone within earshot of how Doug worked with him over the course of several days to lead him to select the perfect gift for his Dad. How nice...
 
Donovan Bailey said:
Now that is much more of a bend than I expected when you first mentioned this on the board...and whether he mentions it or not, I'm betting that that catch scared the pure crap out of your friend. Doug is one of the cornerstones of our turning community from a tools perspective and a first-class gentleman to boot. A short tale. My non-turning son contacted Doug at Christmas time to get me a couple of Thompson tools as a present. Absolutely not knowing what tools might be a suitable gift, my son and Doug exchanged pictures and discussions of my shop tools and Doug led him to what options might be the best for the gift. Of course I love the tools...but the real spinoff is that my son now has this great tale that he shares with anyone within earshot of how Doug worked with him over the course of several days to lead him to select the perfect gift for his Dad. How nice...
Click to expand...
Sounds like Doug! He’s such a nice and helpful guy. So nice to hear all the good stories about him. Enjoy your tools!
 
Donovan Bailey said:
Now that is much more of a bend than I expected when you first mentioned this on the board...and whether he mentions it or not, I'm betting that that catch scared the pure crap out of your friend. Doug is one of the cornerstones of our turning community from a tools perspective and a first-class gentleman to boot. A short tale. My non-turning son contacted Doug at Christmas time to get me a couple of Thompson tools as a present. Absolutely not knowing what tools might be a suitable gift, my son and Doug exchanged pictures and discussions of my shop tools and Doug led him to what options might be the best for the gift. Of course I love the tools...but the real spinoff is that my son now has this great tale that he shares with anyone within earshot of how Doug worked with him over the course of several days to lead him to select the perfect gift for his Dad. How nice...
Click to expand...
In my humble opinion, parting tools are one of the most dangerous tools. Specially the short handle ones. There is a lot of leverage and not enough handle. You don’t mention if you were using a long handle one or a short one. I have both, but I only let my students use the long handle, and I use it a lot too. I hate to loose matching grain in my boxes, so I try to make one plunge cut, something that I not recommend, it’s safer to make a series of cuts, open the kerf at least twice the width of the blade.
 
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