Beall System

[Paul M. Kaplowitz]

Does anyone use Whatco or Waterlox first before they buff. I have ordered a Beall System and wanted to know how to get the best results.

 

[john lucas]

I've used all sorts of finishes before using the Beal system. I use 4" wheels and run them about 2400 rpm. When I tried the original 8" wheels at 1725rpm I burned through some finishes and had to strip the piece and start over. I haven't had this problem since switching to the 4" wheels. I am now using minwax wipe on poly with the Beal as a final step and like it a lot. I normally use an industrial lacquer but since I moved and haven't set my compressor up yet I switched back to the Minwax and like it.

 

[Odie]

Does anyone use Whatco or Waterlox first before they buff. I have ordered a Beall System and wanted to know how to get the best results.

Paul......

Yes, Watco Danish Oil is my preferred finish, and the Beall buff system works well with it. This discussion has been explored before, and I'm cutting and pasting my response concerning the Beall system from an earlier thread:

1. The purpose is exactly the same as any waxed surface would be.....it's an enhancement to the aesthetic visual appeal of the wood surface. Prior to using the Beall buffing method, I was predominantly using Black Bison paste wax. I've discontinued that, in favor of the Beall method. I see it as a more refined waxed surface, and between the two, the difference is very noticeable to the eye. The Black Bison was applied while the bowl was spinning, and still mounted to the faceplate, while the Beall is done after the bowl is separated from the faceplate.

2. When I first started using the Beall method, I was hoping fine scratches that are plainly visible, could be eliminated.....but, that expectation was a disappointment. I think it does remove some microscopic scratches, too small to see with the eye. In doing so, the aesthetic quality of the waxed surface is enhanced.....there is more "depth" to it, for a lack of a better way to explain it. Yes, I believe it does remove dust motes stuck to the surface. I start with a blast of air, and a quick wipe with a cotton cloth before beginning the initial tripoli, or EEE step.....that removes the majority of the dust. My preferred finish is natural danish oil.....and, I seldom, if ever get any surface drips with it. I suspect that any extra thick drips, or any extra thick ordinary elements of another kind of finish will not do well with the Beall method, but I'll leave that point for those who have a direct experience with this aspect of Beall buffing.

3. My buffing speed is 1725, or close to it. I've never used any other speed, and I'm getting such a good result at this speed, that I wouldn't spend too much effort to change speeds. However, I've suspected that slightly slower speeds might be as suitable for the Beall method. A slightly slower speed may be less susceptible to bowls being grabbed and flung across the room......but, that aspect is quickly overcome by simply gaining some "stick time" with the Beall method.....thus, knowing how to hold a bowl to the spinning wheels and buffs.....therefore preventing these "grabs". (I lost several bowls this way, when I first started using the Beall system! ) Early on, someone else on this forum suggested the use of nitrile exam gloves for extra grip power on your bowl.....and, this is a very good suggestion that I also recommend for first time users.

4. Too much pressure doesn't mean much, if any difference in surface quality with my preferred danish oil, but it is a wasted effort, with no practical benefit. (If you load up your wheel excessively with compound, too much pressure can tend to make things a bit messy, though......the solution isn't using less pressure, but to NOT load up your wheels! Too much pressure does create more heat, and could mean a difference to those who are using a different finish than I do. When I buff, the heat transfer to the bowl is noticeable to my fingertips.....the more the pressure, the more heat created. You are going to need some pressure, because no pressure doesn't work, either. Just how much that is, is hard to describe, but there is a "happy place" somewhere between no pressure, and too much pressure. I suspect most everyone will find it pretty easily, with a little experimentation.

The most important key to success isn't a mystery, and it's exactly the same key to success in getting the most out of your preferred finishing method.........SURFACE PREPARATION! There is no "magic bullet" here!!!!!

ko

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

What John said about burning thru some finishes is a good caution in particular Deft lacquer. Odie's comprehensive post tells most of the tale. Remember even with Watco you can get pilling if you put on too much finish or do not let it cure completely before buffing. To emphasize Odie "light touch".

On some finishes such as lacquer skip the red rouge and go straight to white diamond. This does not always work but does help with lacquer. By the way do not use white diamond on porous woods such as walnut and oak. If you do it will make a terrible mess.

 

[John K Jordan]

Does anyone use Whatco or Waterlox first before they buff. I have ordered a Beall System and wanted to know how to get the best results.

Paul,

I use Watco oil on certain woods. If you want a gloss I think the application of the oil is important, as is patience.

A flawless surface before finishing is essential. (I tell people if they don't have time for that just spray it with lacquer and be done with it!) Sometimes I apply sanding sealer or grain filler depending on the wood and the desired look. I soak as much oil as will be absorbed into the wood, let sit over night then wipe off completely. Let dry for a day or so. Wipe on more oil and wipe it off leaving a very thin film, let dry. Repeat with up to many coats, whatever that is. I was told once to lengthen the drying/curing time between subsequent coats to give maybe a week between the final coats. Buff as per Beall instructions, being careful not to over-apply the polishing compound. Very light pressure.

Another finish I like to use and buff is TruOil.

An idea: turn some curves on scrap and experiment with different finishes and buffing technique.

If you haven't used the buffing wheels before, be sure to maintain a good grip on the piece you are buffing unless you are going for the distressed or shattered look of the piece smashing against the lathe or wall after being snatched out of your hand.

JKJ

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

Sorry I got off your primary question on Watco . To add onto Watco......You will get the best buffable finish on closed pore woods like cherry, maple, white oak. This is not a good finish to fill pores. so if you do not want the porosity to show choose another finish for porous woods. Also not good for punky woods as the soft spots absorb the finish at a different rate and make it look like no finish in those areas.

Watco finish is easy to repair, just light sand and add a coat.

 

[Tom Gall]

Another take on the buffing process.

I've used all sorts of finishes before using the Beal system. I use 4" wheels and run them about 2400 rpm. When I tried the original 8" wheels at 1725rpm I burned through some finishes and had to strip the piece and start over. I haven't had this problem since switching to the 4" wheels. I am now using minwax wipe on poly with the Beal as a final step and like it a lot. I normally use an industrial lacquer but since I moved and haven't set my compressor up yet I switched back to the Minwax and like it.

Like John, I have been using 4" wheels. Let me try to copy & paste something I emailed to another turner two years ago. (I'm too lazy to type it again!) 🙂

Re: Buffing ....my 2 cents.

I purchased my Beall set in 1994 (just looked it up in my "tool/equipment" inventory.
Had my share of fly away bowls and some burn-throughs as others have mentioned.
In 1998 I bought a set of Beall 4" buffs which I mounted with a bolt, connector, and
cut-off bolt (it's been so long I would have to go to my shop to look) to mount in a
high speed drill (2400 rpm?- not critical). It worked so well I bought 3 identical drills
(think production), one for each wheel. I haven't used the 8-9" wheels since!!!

I always finished my pieces on the lathe and left the waste block or mounting method
in place until completion. (A vacuum chuck will also work in some cases)
To buff - mount your piece on the lathe turning slowly (not critical) - then use the buffing wheels.
You can access pretty much all areas by reversing the lathe and/or drill to your advantage.
The 4" wheels have proven successful for 80-90% of my turnings. If it didn't fit I would
use bowl buffs or by hand. After the piece is completely buffed I would then work on the
foot or whatever.

Advantages:
* The piece is mounted on the lathe so it will never be ripped from your hands.
* The lathe and buffs are constantly moving so you will never (?) have any burn through.

I did shows for more than 25 yrs. and was often rushed to finish pieces. It is best to let the finish
cure, but many, many times I would buff them out the next day. On some small pieces with
a quick-drying finish I could buff them out 4-6 hours later.

I hope this helps (or, maybe just confuses the issue?)! If you like this idea and need any more info....
send me a PM.

 

[Jamie Straw]

Is it the 3-in-1 system?

If you ordered the 3-in-1 (long mandrel with 3 wheels), I would add the following (if not, just ignore this post): Be sure, with the 3-in-1 long mandrel, that it fully seats in the Morse taper, with no wiggling at all. There is no provision for a drawbar in that mandrel, and at least in my case, on a Jet 1236 lathe, the tailstock pressure did not seat the mandrel securely. Got wiggles, noise and a scarred spindle out of the whole thing. Beall kindly sent me another mandrel to try, same result, so they refunded the purchase price after I sent it all back. Went with spindle-mounted, smaller wheel buffs, and the bowl buffs.

 

[Steve Worcester]

I've used all sorts of finishes before using the Beal system. I use 4" wheels and run them about 2400 rpm. When I tried the original 8" wheels at 1725rpm I burned through some finishes and had to strip the piece and start over. I haven't had this problem since switching to the 4" wheels. I am now using minwax wipe on poly with the Beal as a final step and like it a lot. I normally use an industrial lacquer but since I moved and haven't set my compressor up yet I switched back to the Minwax and like it.

Intersting because (as you know) the surface feet per minute would be much greater on the 4". Maybe smaller wheel- less torque?

anyway, most any properly cured film finish will work with a beal. But it is more than that. If you are going to buff, the finish still needs to be flat, dry and without runs and orange peel. Buffing wheels will make a clean good finish that is capable, shiny. But it will also make a horrible finish that amplifies the flaws.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I've used all sorts of finishes before using the Beal system. I use 4" wheels and run them about 2400 rpm. When I tried the original 8" wheels at 1725rpm I burned through some finishes and had to strip the piece and start over. I haven't had this problem since switching to the 4" wheels. I am now using minwax wipe on poly with the Beal as a final step and like it a lot. I normally use an industrial lacquer but since I moved and haven't set my compressor up yet I switched back to the Minwax and like it.

With the 4" buffs running at 2400 RPM, the surface speed is 2513 feet per minute. And, with the 8" buffs running at 1725 RPM, the surface speed is 3613 feet per minute. Since the tangential speed at the surface of the 8" buff is 1,100 feet per minute faster than the four inch buff, it is not surprising that the 8" buff ruined the finish. RPM only tells half the story ... diameter is just as important.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Learn something everyday

I too just bought a Beal system. So far, I'm still trying to learn how to use it. I use Watco Danish Oil on most of my things. Some things I apply Deft lacquer, after a few coats of danish oil. Question: Why buff after lacquer? I always thought you buff if you dont lacquer...
Has some build up of some sort with my first tries... There is a learning curve like with everything... Aloha from Maui

 

[Fred Belknap]

I buff everything. The 8" buffs work great for me but I run them much slower than most. The EEE and white diamond runs at around 1000 rpm and wax buff I slow down to about 600 rpm. When I bought a new lathe I had my old one setting around the shop for a few months before I sold it and used it to mount my buffs, so I experimented with different speeds and this is what I found works best for me, others might not have the same results.