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Bead on bowl

W

Wells Jacobson

Joined
Jun 28, 2015
Messages
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Location
Manchester, CT
Hello. Love some help.
I am returning a walnut bowl that will finish at about10.5' in diameter and about 0.5" thick. I want to turn a bead just below the rim to add a little more interest -- for me and the bowl. What tool should I use. I don't really want to use a beading tool as no matter how many times I use the one I have I get some grain tear out as you might expect with a scraping tool. On smaller bowls I have used a spindle gouge with the too rest set fairly high but I read so much about not using spindle gouges on bowls because of the end grain and a weaker tool that I would like to know how others do this.
Thanks
 
Two answers: First, I use the D-way beading tools in a cutting mode (flute down and tool pointing upward) successfully for this. Second, a spindle gouge would be my choice of gouge for this purpose. A bowl gouge is preferred mainly for hollowing, where there is significant overhang from the tool rest, and where a blunter nose angle is needed to do the bottom.
 
You want to avoid using a Spindle roughing gouge on bowls and any spindle gouge with a tang.
3/8" or 1/2" spindle or detail gouges from a bar of steel can be used for bead and working round the foot of the bowl.

Al Stirt uses a 1/2" detail gouge with about 60 degree bevel to turn beads Fingernail grind.
I use a 3/8 or 1/2" spindle gouge with a 30 degree bevel fingernail grind.
I set the tool rest a bit above center hold the handle low. Turn going up hill with the tip of the tool out of the wood.
I mark the grooves between beads with a pencil line. I make a half bead on either side of the bead(s).
Begin with the bevel on the wood not cutting roll the tool toward the rim until it starts to cut continue to roll and cut to the bottom of the groove with the leading edge of the wing (keep tip out of the wood). This cuts the groove where the pencil mark was defining the edge of the first bead. Roll the tool back and cut to the top of the bead ( this is cutting the wrong way but works quite well). Then Roll and cut the other side of the bead. Then cut the next bead or stop with the half bead.
I then inspect the foot side of each bead and clean them up if necessary with a light cut rim to foot the correct way.
Sand the beads with 320 or 220 if you haven't gotten it quite right. I use the edge of the paper in the groove and pull it too the top. Don't sand the tops.

I like this method because i can cut three beads of different diameters or the whole outside of a bowl with beads quite easily with little sanding required.
 
Last edited:
Wells Jacobson said:
Hello. Love some help.
I am returning a walnut bowl that will finish at about10.5' in diameter and about 0.5" thick. I want to turn a bead just below the rim to add a little more interest -- for me and the bowl. What tool should I use. I don't really want to use a beading tool as no matter how many times I use the one I have I get some grain tear out as you might expect with a scraping tool. On smaller bowls I have used a spindle gouge with the too rest set fairly high but I read so much about not using spindle gouges on bowls because of the end grain and a weaker tool that I would like to know how others do this.
Thanks
Click to expand...

Dennis is spot on about the D-Way beading tools. I use them for creating basket illusion pieces and there is no comparison between them and the typical beading tool that you get from Sorby and others. Besides that, Dave Schweitzer (AKA Mr. D-Way) is a nice guy and will answer any and all of your questions about the tools.

Regarding your comment about using a spindle gouge to make the beads, you might be confusing that with warnings against using a spindle roughing gouge to turn bowls. Don't even think about doing it. A very experienced turner could safely do it, but it is a heck of a way to see if you are a very experienced turner ..... or not.

A detail gouge which is a beefier version of a spindle gouge could be used to create the beads, but the D-Way beading tools work so much better and are so easy to use that I wouldn't even think about doing it any other way.
 
Thank you all. I have a D-WAY beading tool so I will resharpen and try again with handle low. Also will spend some more time with a spindle gouge and tool rest up close and see if I I can bead the Hockenbery way.
 
Review the videos on using the D-Way tool. Gently score a line with one point and rock the tool to score the other line and then just develop a rhythm rocking side to side with gentle pressure. If the tool is sharp you should get nice shavings. Also consider doing the beading before removing the wood on the interior. If you try to do this after the walls are thin almost any technique is going to be more difficult because of wall vibration.
 
Dennis J Gooding said:
Just a reminder, it is a good idea to complete any detail on the outside near the rim before doing much hollowing.
Click to expand...

Bill Boehme said:
.... Also consider doing the beading before removing the wood on the interior. If you try to do this after the walls are thin almost any technique is going to be more difficult because of wall vibration.
Click to expand...

Looks like we were tuned to the same wavelength. 😀
 
I personally think there isn't anything better than a spindle gouge for turning beads. In this video I show how to use the spindle gouge for beads on spindles and beads on platters. it's about 2 minutes in for spindles and 7 on platters. What I didn't discuss well enough is on bowls and platters even though it looks like I start with the bevel rubbing and flute out cutting with the tip, I don't use the tip. Starting with the tip it's fairly easy to get a catch unless you really stay on the bevel. If you start the cut with an area just to the left or right of the center of the tip, I'll call it 11 oclock or 1 oclock, and then roll the tool letting the cut roll down the side of the wings it becomes a very safe cut. I should say at this point that I sharpen my spindle gouges with the Wolverine jig using the same settings as my bowl gouge except I put a block in the V arm to move the tool forward so I get a much more acute cutting edge. Here is the video. I don't own one of the D way beading tools yet but they are excellent. The only downside of Dave's beading tools is your stuck with that size bead. Learning to use the spindle gouge or detail gouge lets you make a bead any size you want. I did a bowl once where I beaded the whole side. I started at the top with a bead about 3/8" and reduced the size gradually all the way to the bottom. You can't do what with pre sized beading tools.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjYehUsMdB4

About 5 minutes in I show sharpening with the Wolverine jig although in this video I cut a notch in a V block to move the tool up. I now use just a V block of the right length so I can set the Wolverine jig in front of the wooden V block and it gives me the nose angle I want.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOEL7Q3CpZc&t=315s
 
After I went back to bed I thought I should have said that newer turners will find it much easier to use the point tool or a skew on it's side. A really sharp skew will leave a very clean finish on a bead when used as a scraper. I also have been experimenting with using the 3 point tool as somewhat of a bevel rubbing tool. Start with the flat up just like you would normally. Push the tool in to create the bottom of the bead. As you pull it out to round over the bead rotate the handle so the flat of one of the other sides touches the wood. This still gives you control over the shape but it changes the cutting action to more of a cut. I haven't made a video in a long time but I was telling my stepson who now lives with us and is much more computer literate than, that I need to make some more videos and want to do one soon. so maybe an updated version of the bead video should be in the works.
 
Obviously, there are a number of different methods to produce beads, and making them on spindles is much different than forming them on a bowl rim. On a bowl, the grain alternates between long grain and end grain.....and, this increases the difficulty of producing cleanly cut beads immensely. The trick here, is to form the bead with an absolute minimum of sanding required.......and, it sounds like Wells is finding out about that! 😀

For me......I'm doing beads on the rim of bowls with three tools combined. I'm using a regular bowl gouge to roughly form the bead.....then, I'm following that up with shear scraping to final form the bead. A left side bur for the right side of the bead, and a right side bur for the left side of the bead. To cleanly cut into the corner, the scraper is perpendicular to the tool rest, and is gradually twisted to about 45° as it's brought around to the top of the bead.

Since there are other methods of making beads, and other turners have developed their own techniques that work for them.....what's most important for the individual turner, is to practice the technique they are comfortable with, until they master it. Sometimes, the determining factors, are the tools in your arsenal at the time.....and, that's OK. It's going to take more than a few times to establish your own method of forming a bead with the minimum of sanding. There will be disappointments, but persistence is the key! 😵

Here, the basic bead was formed in the method I explained above, and it morphs into an undercut rim in the interior of the bowl.
1420 maple burl (2).JPG
 
Odie nailed it "what's most important for the individual turner, is to practice the technique they are comfortable with"
With my newer method of using the wings of the spindle gouge to turn beads you get a very clean cut that seems to not worry about the grain. It does take practice. I don't get catches but if you come off the bevel it will spiral up just like a skew does. Finess is the key to finer turning. I'm finding that beginners tend to make gross or large movements when trying to adjust the position of the cutter. More advanced turners make very fine movements and that makes a huge difference in tool handling skills.
 
One thin g I've noticed when using a skew on it's side to form a bead is the tendency for the point to move laterally as I make the rounded curve of the bead. This is hard to describe, but imagine the point in the V groove starting point. Then, as the edge of the skew, as a negative rake scraper, pivots around the bead, the bead acts as a fulcrum and the point is the end of the lever. This pushes the point into the opposite side of the V groove, ruining the nice smooth surface. I have to work at drawing the skew towards me as I round the bead to avoid this effect. Does that make sense? Using a sharp spindle gouge is a good way to go most of the time, and I'm going to see if I can reproduce your method, John--it sounds good.
 
I used a skew a lot to turn beads when replacing parts for antiques. I wasn't as skilled back then and often the customer supplied me with just enough wood to do the job. I simply could not screw up and skew saved me. I don't have the problem you describe. What I usually do is start the bead with a fairly small skew and the cut is on the top of the bead at about the middle of the cutting edge. As I move around to the side I move the cut from the middle toward the tip so it finishes with the tip right at the bottom of the bead. Hope that makes sense. I flip the skew and do the other side. I like a 3/8" skew for doing beads unless they are really large.
 
The problem occurs when you rotate the skew past the vertical on the down hill cut and
the other side of valley catches the skew and pulls it across the billet. The trick is knowing
when to stop the rotation of the skew at the bottom of the cut.
 
Dennis J Gooding said:
Bill, does the old term "zero beat" ring a bell?
Click to expand...

As a ham (it will be fifty years in June) it was something that my Heathkit VFO that I used with my DX-60 never did very well. I never had any of the fancy PLL stuff until I built a Heathkit 2 meter transceiver.
 
Again, just great responses. Thank you for the variety of thoughts. John, I look forward to future videos and would love to see you use a gouge to turn a bead on the outside of a bowl and not be captive to your tool for determination of size. Though at my skill level being captive is perhaps wise.
 
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