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Basic tool set

Emiliano Achaval

Emiliano Achaval

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Location
Maui, Hawaii
Website
hawaiiankoaturner.com
I have been asked by a European visitor for a list of Doug Thompson tools to buy. His sister lives here on Maui. He stopped by my shop last year several times, he just wanted to see me turn, he would just sit and or walk around and watch me. His English was very poor, his wife translated but was still hard to understand. English is my second language, so I know how hard it is to learn. He's coming in December again. He wants me to recommend him a list of up to 10, if needed, of the tools that I would buy if I had to start all over again.
He gifted me a small bowl, so he needs bowl turning and spindle turning tools. I know there are other brands, but he doesn't want to order from several different places, plus he saw me always reaching for my Thompson tools...
I would start with: 1: 5/8 bowl gouge 2: 3/8 bowl gouge 3: 1/2 in spindle gouge 4: 1 1/4 skew 5: parting tool
6: NRS 7: I might be inclined to tell him what a great tool the #4 tool from Mike Hunter is... I use mine a lot.
I have to look at my tool rack tomorrow and see what else I use a lot... 8: 3/4 bottom bowl gouge
I sure hope he doesn't stop by when I'm making threaded boxes, he will need another 10 or more tools!
 
For new turners I include a spindle roughing gouge a round nose scraper and a flat nose scraper. Those and tools you listed will.let someone turn almost anything.
 
For bowl turning.......a gouge, scraper, parting tool, and spear point for the details would be a good starter set.........:D

If no plans to use waste blocks, the parting tool could be eliminated.....;)

-----odie-----
 
10 is a lot.
The Mark St. Ledger 5/8 spindle roughing gouge
1/2" & 5/8" bowl gouge
3/8" & 1/2" spindle gouge, maybe the same in spindle detail gouge
That is 5 or 7 for Thompson. As much as I like Doug , the prices of the tools below are high and he has them due to customer demand.
I would pick these up 'on the open market'.
I would get a 1/16" parting tool , maybe Crown
A 1/4" round skew ( or "3 point tool")
Some kind of scraper, probably a round nose 1/2"-3/4"
 
Doug makes only the V and U bowl gouges. I have both and don't recommend them. I much prefer the parabolic profile which he makes for Lyle Jameson Others may feel differently. Allyn
 
I do have one of Lyle's gouges that Doug makes. Looking at I remember thinking it was Doug's V with a wider V than his standard. Can't remember, and I know it is in the shop some where. I would recommend some sort of BOB (bottom of bowl) gouge as well, and the U flute from Doug works excellently. Love Doug's 1 by 5/16 scraper. Not too big, not too little, and can be ground to any profile. My go to nose profile is a quarter round on the left side, and the nose being pretty much straight till it hits the round.

robo hippy
 
Emiliano Achaval said:
I have been asked by a European visitor for a list of Doug Thompson tools to buy. His sister lives here on Maui. He stopped by my shop last year several times, he just wanted to see me turn, he would just sit and or walk around and watch me. His English was very poor, his wife translated but was still hard to understand. English is my second language, so I know how hard it is to learn. He's coming in December again. He wants me to recommend him a list of up to 10, if needed, of the tools that I would buy if I had to start all over again.
He gifted me a small bowl, so he needs bowl turning and spindle turning tools. I know there are other brands, but he doesn't want to order from several different places, plus he saw me always reaching for my Thompson tools...
I would start with: 1: 5/8 bowl gouge 2: 3/8 bowl gouge 3: 1/2 in spindle gouge 4: 1 1/4 skew 5: parting tool
6: NRS 7: I might be inclined to tell him what a great tool the #4 tool from Mike Hunter is... I use mine a lot.
I have to look at my tool rack tomorrow and see what else I use a lot... 8: 3/4 bottom bowl gouge
I sure hope he doesn't stop by when I'm making threaded boxes, he will need another 10 or more tools!
Click to expand...

And, another one gets pulled into the vortex. :D
 
john lucas said:
For new turners I include a spindle roughing gouge a round nose scraper and a flat nose scraper. Those and tools you listed will.let someone turn almost anything.
Click to expand...
Thank you John, I forgot the SRG. Not sure if I would recommend the scrapers, I have all sizes and shapes, I can't even remember when I used them last... I will add one to the list ...
 
robo hippy said:
I do have one of Lyle's gouges that Doug makes. Looking at I remember thinking it was Doug's V with a wider V than his standard. Can't remember, and I know it is in the shop some where. I would recommend some sort of BOB (bottom of bowl) gouge as well, and the U flute from Doug works excellently. Love Doug's 1 by 5/16 scraper. Not too big, not too little, and can be ground to any profile. My go to nose profile is a quarter round on the left side, and the nose being pretty much straight till it hits the round.

robo hippy
Click to expand...
I have all the gouges that Doug Makes. Lately, I have been reaching for the one he makes for Jimmy Clewes. It is the easiest one to sharpen with the 40/40. It's a 5/8. You are right about the bottom bowl gouge. I would also consider a Robo rest a tool that adds convenience, I will show him the ones I have. Robi, do you have a video on your to go nose profile on YouTube? If you don't, maybe could you post some pictures? Thank you!
 
hockenbery said:
Depending on the grind he learns to use.
My favorite Thompson tool is the 5/8” dia bar bowl gouge Jamieson sells with the Ellsworth grind.

I have 3/8 dia bar thompson U Flute with a Michelson grind that I use a lot for small details.
Click to expand...
I have never tried the Michelson grind. Is that free hand or Jig?
 
Emiliano Achaval said:
I have never tried the Michelson grind. Is that free hand or Jig?
Click to expand...
I do it free hand. I had a class a long time ago with Johannes.
Quite a few people use it as their primary grind.
The convex bevel makes it a great tool for hollowing tight curves and coves on hollow forms around a flare rim.
 
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Emiliano-
I think a 1-1/4" skew is a little large. I have a 3/4" Thompson skew, and its a very versatile skew.
Between the 3/4" ,and a 1/2" skew I own, I can turn just about anything spindle wise. I do have a large skew that I bought because I thought I needed it, but I was wrong. lol
 
robo hippy said:
Emiliano, here is a link to a scraper video I did:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4MKTOutZ3w


As for the grind Johannes uses, it is essentially a swept back grind with almost all of the primary bevel ground off, and maybe 1/8 inch of the cutting bevel left on. No problem to do freehand, well if you can freehand...

robo hippy
Click to expand...
Thank you! I have been doing the 49/40 freehand for about a year, took me a while but I got it now.
 
Bob Sheppard said:
Emiliano-
I think a 1-1/4" skew is a little large. I have a 3/4" Thompson skew, and its a very versatile skew.
Between the 3/4" ,and a 1/2" skew I own, I can turn just about anything spindle wise. I do have a large skew that I bought because I thought I needed it, but I was wrong. lol
Click to expand...
YOu are probably right, but, I'm not that good with a skew, I feel the bigger ones have a bigger sweet spot... Maybe is just my frame of mind... What do you think?
 
The sweet spot is just the first millimeter in actuality. Look at Eli Avisera's convex skew vs a standard hollow grind skew. Yes before you start the cut it is riding on that corner or heal of the bevel on a concave skew so it seems like you have a longer sweet spot but in reality it's still just that first millimeter doing the cutting. When I played with all the different skew grinds I found, especially the convex grind, I realized that what ever is after the first millimeter or so doesn't really matter. Same with my bowl gouges now since I grind away almost all the metal below the first little bit after the edge.
Speaking on the comment of a bigger skew having a bigger sweet spot. No, not if the metal is the same thickness and ground to the same angle. Of course a larger skew will have a longer cutting edge and maybe that's what you were referring to as a sweet spot. Still, except for paring cuts your still only using a very small portion of the edge at one time.
 
One thing about scrapers, is they seem a little more controllable than gouges when having the need for longer overhangs from the toolrest.......big stout ones, anyway! o_O

-----odie-----
 
john lucas said:
The sweet spot is just the first millimeter in actuality. Look at Eli Avisera's convex skew vs a standard hollow grind skew. Yes before you start the cut it is riding on that corner or heal of the bevel on a concave skew so it seems like you have a longer sweet spot but in reality it's still just that first millimeter doing the cutting. When I played with all the different skew grinds I found, especially the convex grind, I realized that what ever is after the first millimeter or so doesn't really matter. Same with my bowl gouges now since I grind away almost all the metal below the first little bit after the edge.
Speaking on the comment of a bigger skew having a bigger sweet spot. No, not if the metal is the same thickness and ground to the same angle. Of course a larger skew will have a longer cutting edge and maybe that's what you were referring to as a sweet spot. Still, except for paring cuts your still only using a very small portion of the edge at one time.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Well said.
I also think that the extra mass of a big skew makes it harder to manipulate.
 
odie said:
One thing about scrapers, is they seem a little more controllable than gouges when having the need for longer overhangs from the toolrest.......big stout ones, anyway! o_O

-----odie-----
Click to expand...
I agree that most beginners find the scraper more controllable.
With instruction beginners will move to intermediate within a few weeks or a few months.
The gouge will be more controllable by the intermediate stage.
I frequently use my gouge with a 6” overhang. I would never try that with a scraper unless it had a 4 ft heavy handle.
The gouge doesn’t require any strength with a long overhang. The scrapers require a lot or a long heavy handle.
I tell my beginners to use no more than a two inch overhang with the gouge.
 
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Ditto Al. I often hang gouges over the tool rest pretty far but if you rotate the flute until you find that sweet spot it takes almost no effort to make the cut.
 
hockenbery said:
I agree that most beginners find the scraper more controllable.
With instruction beginners will move to intermediate within a few weeks or a few months.
The gouge will be more controllable by the intermediate stage.
I frequently use my gouge with a 6” overhang. I would never try that with a scraper unless it had a 4 ft heavy handle.
The gouge doesn’t require any strength with a long overhang. The scrapers require a lot or a long heavy handle.
I tell my beginners to use no more than a two inch overhang with the gouge.
Click to expand...

You are taking too much bite if you think that Al......maybe some further instruction is applicable for you.......

-----odie-----
 
The whole thing about hanging out far off the tool rest is that taking too big of a bite gets you into trouble. I don't use scrapers more than 1 inch wide because I don't need any more metal than that, which was the point of the Scary Scrapers video. 6 inches off the tool rest with a scraper???? Maybe a NRS, but never a standard scraper. With a hollowing type 1/4 inch scraper, that is manageable with a long handle....

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
The whole thing about hanging out far off the tool rest is that taking too big of a bite gets you into trouble. I don't use scrapers more than 1 inch wide because I don't need any more metal than that, which was the point of the Scary Scrapers video. 6 inches off the tool rest with a scraper???? Maybe a NRS, but never a standard scraper. With a hollowing type 1/4 inch scraper, that is manageable with a long handle....

robo hippy
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree Robo......taking too much bite is why Al probably needs that long handle he mentioned. There is that, and there is getting a refined cut with a light grip on the tool, as well......it allows for smoother performance.....but, I think you already know that. I believe you are one that specializes in scraping more than the average turner. Nothing wrong with that at all! It all boils down to the results you can get. For the final tool work that requires little sanding, the scraper with a finely formed bur is unbeatable......but, it takes some acquired skill to get the performance over just having a good refined bur. :D

-----odie-----
 
odie said:
much bite is why Al probably needs that long handle he mentioned.
Click to expand...

Love to see a video of you using a scraper with a 6” overhang.
shear scraping doesn’t count since it can be done without a tool rest. The tool is used similar to a cabinet scraper.

The only scraper I use with a 6” over hang is my Ancient Thompson boaring bar.
it has a 1/4” cutter - so not too big a bite.
Tool is about 5 ft long and heavy - weight close to 10 lbs.
 
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hockenbery said:
Love to see a video of you using a scraper with a 6” overhang.
shear scraping doesn’t count since it can be done without a tool rest. The tool is used similar to a cabinet scraper.

The only scraper I use with a 6” over hang is my Ancient Thompson boaring bar.
it has a 1/4” cutter - so not too big a bite.
Tool is about 5 ft long and heavy - weight close to 10 lbs.
Click to expand...

Al......My idea of a "long overhang" isn't any more than a couple inches, or so.......don't believe I've ever had the need to go 6". Just the other day, I was working on a large salad bowl with inward slanting walls, and the Robust "J" rest was my savior.....but, it did require some amount of overhang that was unavoidable. I never have the need to have an overhang over about 1/4", or so on exteriors. Sometimes, while working on interiors, there is no other option but to have some overhang. When the overhang is avoidable, that's the best thing to do.......:D

-----odie-----
 
odie said:
Al......My idea of a "long overhang" isn't any more than a couple inches, or so.......don't believe I've ever had the need to go 6". Just the other day, I was working on a large salad bowl with inward slanting walls, and the Robust "J" rest was my savior.....but, it did require some amount of overhang that was unavoidable. I never have the need to have an overhang over about 1/4", or so on exteriors. Sometimes, while working on interiors, there is no other option but to have some overhang. When the overhang is avoidable, that's the best thing to do.......:D

-----odie-----
Click to expand...
Now I Totally don’t understand your earlier posts.

I just pointed out most people reaching the intermediate skill level can control a gouge further over the tool rest than they can can a scraper. Also I mentioned that I occasionally use a gouge effectively with as much as a 6” overhang. I would Never use a scraper that far over the tool rest.

so you don’t use a scraper with a lot of overhang either.
 
RE: a skew. I use a skew all the time for a variety of different tasks and for some reason have never had any fear of them. In any case, for my 2 cents I would recommend:
a) a radius end skew rather than straight. It's a little harder to sharpen, but is more forgiving in use.
b) rounded corners on the heel/short point side. This protects your iron tool rest from nicks and makes it much easier to roll up to the best shear angle and roll beads.
c) IMHO, a wider skew keeps the long point farther from the wood and decreases the chance of a major catch, while the narrower skew is easier to manipulate and makes narrow coves easier. The best width probably also has to do with the size of the projects you work on. So the best compromise width is a personal matter. For me, I prefer the 1" width, but the 3/4" is a close second choice.
d) Oval skews are evil.
 
If you were to ask a Russian, Indian, or Chinese production wood turner they would list one or two basic tools that they use to make a variety of items with, a hook tool is one that they use a lot for hollowing production pieces quickly and cleanly. Most of them turn pieces without the use of a tail stock support and no fancy 4-jaw scroll chuck with a key to hold the work piece.
 
Al, your ancient Thompson boring bar sounds like the Oland tool.....

I do use the scrapers in ways that most people don't, and not just because I am 'different'. It is that engineer's syndrome, "if it ain't broke, take it apart and fix it anyway." That lead me to experimenting with scrapers. For end grain turnings, with a steady hand, you can get glass smooth surfaces. For bowls grain orientation, most of the time I prefer a shear scrape. The NRS does leave tear out, more so in some woods, and less so in others....

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
your ancient Thompson boring bar sounds like the Oland tool..
Click to expand...
similar in some aspects. Its a heavy bar that has a reversible square cutter in the end rounded on one end and a vee point on the other end. They were popular in the late 80s early 90s. the Ellsworth and Denis Stewart tools made them obsolete.
There were a few articles About using pulleys and counter weights to hold up the handle.
 
To those of you that have strayed off-topic, expect a call from my Russian visitor, so you can explain what we are talking about here!! :D On another note, I remember having spectacular catches with my big Richard Raffan style scrapers, looking at them and wondering what was going on!!
 
All of this has made me start thinking, which I know is dangerous, about making a skew with the tantung. Sandwich it in between two layers of mild steel so I can double bevel it and it does hone nicely, but no clue as to the metal being able to take as fine of an edge as the M42 or V10...

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
All of this has made me start thinking, which I know is dangerous, about making a skew with the tantung. Sandwich it in between two layers of mild steel so I can double bevel it and it does hone nicely, but no clue as to the metal being able to take as fine of an edge as the M42 or V10...
Click to expand...
Very interesting idea, Reed. You could do the same with a NRS. One potential drawback is that honing would tend to make the angle progressively more and more acute as the softer steel is taken off in greater amount than the tantung.
 
Just heard from my friend. He's from Havirob, the Czech Republic. He's offered to bring some blanks from there, I told him anything really dense, surprise me. Reed, is simply amazing how you use your scrapers. Wish you could come to Maui, spend some time in my shop. I have a place for you to stay in...
 
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