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Bandsaw blade guide -- Blocks vs. bearings

Kalia Kliban

Kalia Kliban

Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Messages
197
Likes
1,017
Location
Sebastopol, California
I've got a Powermatic 1500 bandsaw that I mostly love. The main thing I don't love is the adjustment mechanism for the roller-bearing guide assemblies. The adjustment screws vibrate loose _all the time._ It's better now that I've applied some strategic dabs of Loctite to those threads, but now adjusting often involves using pliers to loosen the screws, which is an additional hassle. One solution to that would be to replace the knurled knobs with wing-screws which are easier to budge when they're tight, but it wouldn't solve the problem of the bearings getting badly gunked up when I cut green wood for bowl blanks (the primary use for my bandsaw).
I'm considering upgrading to an after-market guide assembly and would love to hear from those of you who've switched from bearings to blocks, or vice-versa. My old Delta bandsaw had block-style guides and they worked quite well. Carter is the after-market guide assembly company that I'm familiar with. Are there other brands I should be considering as well?
Kalia
 
I had block style ceramic guides on my import 14" saw and now have Carter BB guides on my Delta 14" saw. I much prefer the latter but I also don't cut a lot of green wood. My opinion might be different if I cut a lot of green wood.
 
My Laguna 14SUV came with guide blocks as did an older Delta but I switched both of them to the Carter roller guides and never looked back.
 
For lots of green wood, blocks are far superior. They can keep the blade cleaner instead of packing it on like roller guides do. Blocks don't need to be fancy, something like hard maple or osage orange do just as well as phenolic or steel. I would replace the knobs you have now with a socket head bolt that gets tightened with an Allen wrench. T wrenches are very fast.
 
My Rockwell/Delta 20" came from the previous owner with some sort of hard plastic guides (don't really know nor care what it is, but I got several blocks of it with the saw) (and there is a bearing behind the blade). I mostly use that saw for green wood and the guides don't gunk up like the Carter bearings on my 14" Delta. They do wear, so I have to take them out and touch them up on the disk sander every so often.
 
I ran a Crescent saw with hardened steel block side guides for many years with no problems. The Euro wheel guides on an Aggazani at work froze up and were replaced with Carter bearing side guides held in aluminum castings which were easily stripped out if the grub screws were overtightened. I'm not sure what your aftermarket options are but I would opt for solid guides if available.
 
Kevin Jenness said:
I ran a Crescent saw with hardened steel block side guides for many years with no problems. The Euro wheel guides on an Aggazani at work froze up and were replaced with Carter bearing side guides held in aluminum castings which were easily stripped out if the grub screws were overtightened. I'm not sure what your aftermarket options are but I would opt for solid guides if available.
Click to expand...
I worked with a big Aggazzani saw for a number of years and was deeply underwhelmed with almost every aspect of it beyond its horsepower. The tracking on the upper guide assembly was especially bad, and I've talked to other shops with these saws and it seems to be a brand-wide problem. The aluminum casting issue is a good one to bring up. Thanks for mentioning that, and I'll keep it in mind.
 
I was fine with bearing guides until I started cutting green wood, especially some really stringy Siberian elm, which packed up the bearings and blade so bad, I had to disaasemble the guides to try and clean them. The blade was beyond cleaning. I fabricated some blocks to fit the Carter guide assemblies from phenolic material I had on hand and they worked great. I kept the bearings for the back edge of the blade. The only change I've made since then was to make a new set of blocks from the material Cool Blocks are made of. For my use, I've found that the blocks require far less tweaking than the bearings did and work at least as well. YMMV.
 
I overall really like my Laguna 14bx, but the ceramic guides were problematic. The guides were constantly working loose. I changed the factory ceramic guides to aftermarket Carter ball bearings. I am very satisfied with the Carter product and their customer service.
 
The European guides on my older Jet 18“ bandsaw are the worst kind, but I suspect most people who like bearing guides must be cutting dry wood. I’d suggest finding block guides if you’re cutting a lot of green wood.
 
Dave Landers said:
My Rockwell/Delta 20" came from the previous owner with some sort of hard plastic guides (don't really know nor care what it is, but I got several blocks of it with the saw) (and there is a bearing behind the blade). I mostly use that saw for green wood and the guides don't gunk up like the Carter bearings on my 14" Delta. They do wear, so I have to take them out and touch them up on the disk sander every so often.
Click to expand...

The "plastic" guides sound like Cool Blocks sold by Olson, a phenolic resin doped with graphite and other dry lubricants. I have a 14" Delta clone that uses Cool Blocks. My 16" MiniMax came with Euro guides which were marginal. I bought Carter guides which are nice, but going through the adjustment procedure every time I changed the blade was very tedious and as previously mentioned, ball bearing guides are not a good choice when cutting green wood. I then bought Cool Block guides from MiniMaxand they're my favorite. With Cool Blocks, I can set them for zero clearance from the blade and that keeps them clean and running smooth. Another thing with Cool Blocks when using a narrow blade is that you can completely capture the band ... teeth and all. I also discovered that I could substitute hard tropical wood in place of Cool Blocks and they seemed to work just as well as the Cool Blocks. Teak is my favorite.
 
My 18" Grizzly was a POS with the round phenolic or ceramic or what ever they were plugs. As a last resort before buying another I got a set of Carters bearing guides and the saw has been great ever since no matter wet or dry wood.
 
I cut green wood 90% of the time. Madrone is one that really gunks up the blades. My Laguna has the ceramic guides, and I think they work very well. My small PM has roller bearings, and they can gunk up pretty bad when cutting madrone. I will actually hold a screw driver against the bearings and blade, while it is running, to remove the build up. Not sure if I would use teak for a blade guide, but it would probably work, even though it has silica in it. It used to be common for the old saws to use lignum for the blade guides. I suppose any oily wood, like the rosewoods or cocobolo would also work. Never tried the cool blocks.

robo hippy
 
Bill Boehme said:
Another thing with Cool Blocks when using a narrow blade is that you can completely capture the band ... teeth and all.
Click to expand...
In "theory" this will flatten the set of the teeth. I take it this has not been your experience. Do you take any steps in the setup to prevent removing the set of the saw teeth?
 
I've used Lignum Vitae as 'cool blocks' many years ago. It is very dense (probably the densest of all woods) and oily. It was used as bearings for ship's propeller shafts and hydro plants in the old days.
 
I wrote to the folks at Carter and they said they don't have a block-style guide assembly for the PM 1500, but that I might be able to make this one work:

Micro-Precision Model 30 - Band Saw Guides & Mounts | Carter Products

Looking for band saw guides? Find Micro-Precision Model 30 guides as well as mounts, brackets and studs at Carter Products. Browse our inventory today!
carterproducts.com carterproducts.com
I'll have to take the technical drawings out and commune with my saw for a bit to see if I could make it work.
 
robo hippy said:
... Not sure if I would use teak for a blade guide, but it would probably work, even though it has silica in it. It used to be common for the old saws to use lignum for the blade guides. I suppose any oily wood, like the rosewoods or cocobolo would also work ....
Click to expand...

If we were sawing the teak I would agree, but we aren't (see my last sentence below). The worst case of tool-dulling silica that I have ever encountered was a piece of black walnut.

Mark Jundanian said:
In "theory" this will flatten the set of the teeth. I take it this has not been your experience. Do you take any steps in the setup to prevent removing the set of the saw teeth?
Click to expand...

I'm not aware of that theory, therefore, it couldn't possibly apply to me. :rolleyes: There is no force being applied to the teeth by the Cool Blocks or wooden blocks. The blade cuts a clearance kerf for the teeth as the blocks are brought into incipient contact with the blade. In other words, the blocks are touching the blade, but the blade doesn't know it.
 
Bill, I will agree about black walnut. That stuff seems to be really hard on all cutting tool edges. I got a board of Ipe when it first started being available in the wood stores, and layed it out in the sun. It glittered from all of the silica in it.

robo hippy
 
Kalia, your question comes up at a most opportune time. Next week I'm supposed to be getting some green (as in wet) Red Wood. I've heard it can be quite resinous.
So I figured now was a good time to give DIY Cool blocks a try... These were made for proof of concept, and for sizing, I have a small piece of Lignum Vitae I've been saving for a special occasion. I'll let you know how it works out...

Cool Blocks.jpeg
 
Kevin Jenness said:
These are the hardened steel guides that are on my old saw. Wright guides No idea if they could be adapted to yours but the fact that Northfield still offers them suggests they are a quality piece of kit.
Click to expand...
Same design as the Model 30 guides that Carter now sells. It's possible that if the Wright guides went out of production, Carter picked up the design.
 
robo hippy said:
Bill, I will agree about black walnut. That stuff seems to be really hard on all cutting tool edges. I got a board of Ipe when it first started being available in the wood stores, and layed it out in the sun. It glittered from all of the silica in it.

robo hippy
Click to expand...
Ipe is nastynastynasty! It's a booger to glue (resorcinol seems to be the only glue that will hold it), cut, sand, plane, drill, turn.... The dust is clingy and will stain anything it touches. Heavy as hell, too.
 
Why do they some bandsaw guides slide the back of the blade across the side of the bearing like these Micro-Precision guide from Carter? My Jet euro guides do this but it never made sense to me.
 
Karl Loeblein said:
Why do they some bandsaw guides slide the back of the blade across the side of the bearing like these Micro-Precision guide from Carter? My Jet euro guides do this but it never made sense to me.
Click to expand...
I've never understood that either. If the bearing gets a little sticky, you end up with self-reinforcing notches being cut into the face of the bearing. Anyone know the answer to this? Having the rear bearing oriented so that the curved face contacts the wheel seems a lot more sensible.
 
I used Lignum Vitae on my old walker turner bandsaw for years. It did not gum up and I could run it right next to the blade. Of course finding it now may be a problem
 
Total noob here, but I purchased a used delta with carter guides. I found the carter very fiddly to adjust so I went back to the original Delta guides. Much easier to adjust, and quieter too. I use it for roughing wet blanks. Not sure if Carter guides would be better for fine detail work.
 
Kalia Kliban said:
Ipe is nastynastynasty! It's a booger to glue (resorcinol seems to be the only glue that will hold it), cut, sand, plane, drill, turn.... The dust is clingy and will stain anything it touches. Heavy as hell, too.
Click to expand...

Resorcinol is also nastynastynasty so they're a perfect match for each other. :D
 
Clifton C said:
Kalia, your question comes up at a most opportune time. Next week I'm supposed to be getting some green (as in wet) Red Wood. I've heard it can be quite resinous.
So I figured now was a good time to give DIY Cool blocks a try... These were made for proof of concept, and for sizing, I have a small piece of Lignum Vitae I've been saving for a special occasion. I'll let you know how it works out...

View attachment 46737
Click to expand...
Clifton, great minds think alike. Yours look identical to what I made to convert the Carter bearings to block guides on my saw, except that I used some phenolic material until I machined replacements from a piece of the Cool Stop material. The blocks have been a lot less fiddly than the bearings were. The only lignum vitae I have is from a carvers mallet that was my dad's, and I would *never* cut that up!
 
I am trying to remember, again. It seems that some of the block type guides had the edge that rubbed against the blade set at about a 45 degree angle, which I think would help clean gunk off of the blade as you process green wood. Might have only been the lower set. Upper set also?

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
I am trying to remember, again. It seems that some of the block type guides had the edge that rubbed against the blade set at about a 45 degree angle, which I think would help clean gunk off of the blade as you process green wood. Might have only been the lower set. Upper set also?

robo hippy
Click to expand...

The 45° Cool Blocks were for certain Delta bandsaws and I think that they might have been angled horizontally rather than vertically. The reason for the angled arrangement had to do with clearance in tight quarters with other parts of the lower guide assembly or possibly allowing the table to be tilted.
 
Kalia Kliban said:
I've got a Powermatic 1500 bandsaw that I mostly love. The main thing I don't love is the adjustment mechanism for the roller-bearing guide assemblies. The adjustment screws vibrate loose _all the time._ It's better now that I've applied some strategic dabs of Loctite to those threads, but now adjusting often involves using pliers to loosen the screws, which is an additional hassle. One solution to that would be to replace the knurled knobs with wing-screws which are easier to budge when they're tight, but it wouldn't solve the problem of the bearings getting badly gunked up when I cut green wood for bowl blanks (the primary use for my bandsaw).
I'm considering upgrading to an after-market guide assembly and would love to hear from those of you who've switched from bearings to blocks, or vice-versa. My old Delta bandsaw had block-style guides and they worked quite well. Carter is the after-market guide assembly company that I'm familiar with. Are there other brands I should be considering as well?
Kalia
Click to expand...
Kalia,

I have a Laguna 14 inch bandsaw that uses ceramic blocks for blade guides. Once you get used to the setup process (and don't try to make the blade do turns its not designed for), the ceramic blocks work great. They rest just behind the blade's teeth and are tightened by putting a thin paper space between one of the block pairs and the blade. Then the knurled knobs are tightened down and the blocks do a great job of rigidly positioning the blade with very little friction. There is also a circular back guide that is adjusted to rest against the back side of the blade. This takes the majority of pressure load (which should be small if the blade is cutting well). Hope this helps. [image from the Laguna 'how-to guide]
P.S. I've had the saw for over 4 years and am still using the original ceramic blocks.
 

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robo hippy said:
I am trying to remember, again. It seems that some of the block type guides had the edge that rubbed against the blade set at about a 45 degree angle, which I think would help clean gunk off of the blade as you process green wood. Might have only been the lower set. Upper set also?

robo hippy
Click to expand...
Just one (of 4) of the blocks on my Rockwell/Delta 20" is angled. I think (as Bill said) it's just for clearance. If it were for de-gunking, the pair would be angled.
 
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