Baldor Grinders?

[Jay Coulson]

Hi all,
I was just reading the thread about the wolverine system not being compatible with an 8" Baldor. I hadn't really considered that but, I'm glad that the question has been asked. I currently have to Delta variable 8" grinder and frankly, I pretty much hate it. I also dislike the un-notched wolverine platform and have modified one by notching it to allow the platform to much better engage the wheel.. So, I'm considering a Baldor. The biggest concern that I have is obtaining high quality wheels which are comparable to the Norton SG wheels because the arbor on the 8" Baldor is 3/4" and, the good SG wheels are 5/8" only. The cheaper Norton's have plastic bushings to allow for various arbors but, the good wheels don't. The SG wheels are far superior for grinding the Thompson 10v steel as well as some of the other harder steel tools. I'm working on getting away from the jigs completely. Baldor makes a 10" and even more attractive...a 12" grinder which takes 2 1/2" wide wheels. The 12" is available in 1800 rpm which seemed ideal until a friend pointed out that due to the much larger surface area, the actual grinding speed is much faster than 1800. So, a dilemma...where to get quality wheels if I go to the Baldor machine, regardless of size.
Thanks in advace for any feedback.
J

 

[odie]

Good morning, Jay.......

Just wondering.......If your purpose is mainly to sharpen lathe tools, what advantages would a 10", or 12" grinder have over an 8" grinder?

Is it that your main purpose is to go wider in wheel width? You mentioned that you're looking to get away from jigs all together, and I can envision some advantage to a wider wheel if free-form lathe tool sharpening is the object.

As you do, I also feel the SG wheels are a superior wheel for grinding tool steel. If getting a Baldor meant losing the SG option, that would definitely influence my decision to get a Baldor.

ooc

 

[John Jordan]

The Wolverine works fine with the Baldor if you want to use it. I have one, and there are a lot of the same set-up around, including many of the turning schools. You can likely get the wheels you want from MSCDirect.com.

You'll never regret the Baldor.

John

 

[Rob Wallace]

Having trouble following.....

Baldor makes a 10" and even more attractive...a 12" grinder which takes 2 1/2" wide wheels. The 12" is available in 1800 rpm which seemed ideal until a friend pointed out that due to the much larger surface area, the actual grinding speed is much faster than 1800. So, a dilemma...where to get quality wheels if I go to the Baldor machine, regardless of size.
Thanks in advace for any feedback.
J

Jay:

I'm having trouble following your comments.....

First, 1800 rpm is 1800 rpm, regardless of wheel diameter or width.

What does surface area have anything to do with speed? - a 1" wide wheel spins just as fast as a 2.5" wide wheel on the same machine. This additional width is just more of a convenience when positioning the tool on the wheel, and of course having a wider wheel wear much longer in service. Performance of the speed of cutting should be the same, regardless of width, given equal surface quality.

I hope you are considering surface speed (not surface area) as the variable which differs between wheel diameters:

Diam. --- Circumf. --- Surface Speed (ft/min*)

8" ----- 25.13" ----- 3,770 ft/min

10" ----- 31.42" ----- 4,713 ft/min

12" ----- 37.70" ----- 5,655 ft/min

*At 1800 rpm

Given a grinder motor axle speed of 1800 rpm, running a 12" diameter wheel would be the surface ft/min equivalent of running an 8" diameter wheel at 2,700 rpm (factor of 1.5).

You will need to consider whether the benefits (?) you gain with a 12" wheel may defeat the purpose of going to a slow-speed grinder in the first place. For faster cutting speed, larger diameter wheels will obviously enable more rapid metal removal than smaller diameter wheels. One can ask the question whether this is a good thing or not.

If you are looking for industrial quality bonded abrasive wheels of larger diameters, MSC Industrial Supply (www.mscdirect.com) might be a good place to start looking.

Rob Wallace

 

[Barry Elder]

Jay, if you are talking about sharpening HSS tools you don't apply a lot of pressure to the wheel and speed is not an issue of any great magnitude. Many people feel that the more sparks they see flying, the better job they must be doing! (NOT!) To reshape the business end of a tool will required a lot more time or a lot more pressure, but that is not sharpening, but grinding. Almost any brand of grinder motor and most rpm categories will work once you develop your technique.

 

[robo hippy]

The Baldor is the top of the line grinder. I have had one for 4 years. I have never considered clamping or bolting it to the table it runs that smooth. As to grinding wheels, well, how much do you want to spend? I have CBN (cubic boric nitride) wheels. This is a very hard material that is made for grinding steel. It is 3/16 of an inch of material bonded to an aluminum disc, and they can be made in any grit you want. I settled on them as the ultimate grinding wheel. The major down side is that they cost $300 each. My 80 grit wheel is 4 years old, and has about half of the abrasive worn away, and I turn 700 or so bowls a year, plus a lot of other smaller things. I had a 320 grit wheel, but it wore out after about a year. I now have a 150 grit wheel. It seems to be lasting as long as the 80 grit wheel. There is now a diamond wheel that Woodcraft sells under the Wood River name, and it is a diamond impregnated matrix bonded to an aluminum disc just like my CBN wheel. It costs around $180 or so. I have no idea how it works, but when researching grinding wheels, diamond is better for carbide, and CBN is made for steel. If you get one, you would have to take it to a machine shop and have the arbor hole bored out, which is simple for them to do. My CBN wheels are cleaned with a very hard aluminum oxide abrasive. They do need to be dressed from time to time, and you can not do this at home as they will eat diamond dressers. I am lucky to have my wheels made here in town (Northwest Super Abrasives and they do have a web site), so it is a quick trip to them, and they put it on a lathe of sorts, and use the hard aluminum oxide to true up the wheel. One other benefit of these wheels is that they are already spin balanced, and will not come apart like the other type of abrasive wheels can.

I haven't used a gouge jig all year, and probably never will again. I took a 3 day work shop with Allen and Stewart Batty last summer, and learned to sharpen on a platform tool rest by the grinder. I have the Veritas ones, and they are set to one angle, I have different wedge platforms that I put on the tool rest to change angles, so no fiddling around to reset angles. Simple, and much faster than the gouge jigs. Check out Mike Mahoney's You Tube video on sharpening. You can do swept back by sweeping the gouge more to the sides.

robo hippy

 

[Jay Coulson]

thanks guys

The Wolverine works fine with the Baldor if you want to use it. I have one, and there are a lot of the same set-up around, including many of the turning schools. You can likely get the wheels you want from MSCDirect.com.

You'll never regret the Baldor.

Thanks John.
I'm just sick of playing around with the vibration, noise etc. with the Delta. The way I see it, we spend a great deal of $$ on good turning tools....more than justifies the added expense of a good grinder.
I'm looking at the BLE-8100W...pretty basic 8" machine without the fancy lighted eye shields etc.
I'll check out MSC for the high-quality wheels.
J

 

[Jay Coulson]

Baldor--thanks Robo

Conicidence....I'm headed out for a few days with Stuart myself. One of the major agenda items is free hand grinding. If I can station the grinder right behind me at the lathe and just turn around and free-hand a new edge, I'll be where I want to be. That grinder is going to be a Baldor. I'm not too worried about the cost of the wheels but, sending them away to be dressed sounds a little inconvenient. Maybe I will just buy a couple of sets of CBN wheels in the grits that I will use the most and, have one set to send away for dressing while the others are on the grinder.
Stuart is the one that told me not to bother with any of the other less expensive wheels and just go for the SG...especially for the 10v steel in the Thompson tools.
The rests...yes, something solid that doesn't fit into an arm and, is notched to allow access to the wheel sounds great.
I just responded to John that I was considering the BLE-110-8100. Is there any model that you would recommend please.
Thanks Hippy
J

 

[robo hippy]

I am not familiar with the tool rest you mention. I have found the Veritas tool rest a bit whimpy for my tastes. I do have it up on a 3 by 3 piece of fir to get it up to height because the Baldor is so much higher than the other grinders. The only other problem I have is that I would prefer a tool rest that has preset angles that I could adjust without having fiddle with it to get it perfect. The wedges I have made work, but I think there should be an easier solution.

I have pondered having a cut out in the tool rest for the grinding wheel to fit into. I don't really think it is necessary. You really aren't supposed to sharpen on the side of a wheel, and can't on the CBN wheels.

Jay, I don't know where you are, but you may be able to have the wheels made there. The place that makes them here is part of Bel Saw (or maybe Bell Saw) which is a pretty big company.

robo hippy

 

[Jay Coulson]

grinder surface area

Thanks Rob Wallace...
Yes, I didn't explain myself well. You have of course hit it right on the head. The bigger wheel is still spinning at 1800 rpm but, the surface area is significantly increased, thereby increasing metal to wheel time. I got the idea from Richard Raffan who told me that the best grinder that he had ever used was in Germany a few years ago. It was a 12 " x 2 1/2" wheel machine which seemed to start on a dime and, seemingly never coast to a stop when turned off. He said that he thought that it was a Belgian machine but wasn't sure. So, I looked into industrial grinders and found the Baldors. The larger wheel machine is 220 v which is no problem for my shop but, maybe the 8" will be enough.
If you have any comments, I'd love to hear more.
Thanks,
J

 

[MichaelMouse]

Can't see any of the tools I use, or others commonly use on the lathe would benefit from a broad wheel. Plane irons and planer blades would.

Good bearings and lots of weight (inertia) will certainly coast a long time. The Baldor at school was a 10" 3450, and coasted on its thin wheels long enough for you to forget and catch a shirt on it if you weren't paying attention. Not sure that's an advantage either. Wouldn't kill the deal, but something to consider. I still like the Big Buffer as an all-in one. Though he coasts quite a while too.

 

[robo hippy]

Oops, found out it is Burton Saw, which does have outlets in Alabama and New Hampshire I think.

robo hippy

 

[Jay Coulson]

baldor width and rests

Odie--you got it. The only reason to consider the wider wheels that come along with the large diameter is to have alot of surface area (2.5x as much as a 1") on which to free hand grind. I'm sure it's not necessary but, it should make it pretty hard to slip off the rest and miss the wheel!. On the other hand, if I still want to have the Woverine jigs available, the 8" Baldor would seem to be the way to go all the way around.

The notched platform? I have never like the One Way platform...maybe it's just my lousy set-up and/or the vibration of that Delta grinder...not sure. I had a friend put a notch in an additional One Way platform and, it really is nice (at least for me) to get up nice, close and personal to the wheel that the notch allows. For micro bevels or the limited amount of free handing that I am doing, I really like the notched platform.
I have no experience with the Veritas products so, I have no comment or opinion. I'd like to think that I can have at least one solid, notched platform made up for the Baldor...either 8 or 12 ".
Still need to do alot of looking around for wheels. Looked at the MSC web site last nite and, it was pretty confusing for me. Even on the evil Delta, those Norton SG wheels are very nice and my choice thusfar.

John, if I might be so bold...what grits do you prefer on your Baldor?
Tks,
J

 

[Don Geiger]

Vertically adjustable V-notch and tool rest support systems

Dear Fellow Woodturners:

For several years I have supplied an aftermarket product for the Wolverine that has a V-notch that adjusts vertically. This allows you to adjust to ANY height of grinder. I have two models and one has enough adjustment to even use it with a Tormek.

Because of many requests I have received, mostly from Baldor owners, I now have a vertically adjustable platform rest support. This too is an aftermarket product for the Wolverine. You actually re-use your old 3" X 5" platform rest and the handle.

The Vertical Solution (V-notch system) is on my web site, but the platform rest support is not yet on there.

Don Geiger
www.geigerssolutions.com

 

[John Jordan]

Odie--you got it. The only reason to consider the wider wheels that come along with the large diameter is to have alot of surface area (2.5x as much as a 1") on which to free hand grind. I'm sure it's not necessary but, it should make it pretty hard to slip off the rest and miss the wheel!. On the other hand, if I still want to have the Woverine jigs available, the 8" Baldor would seem to be the way to go all the way around.

The notched platform? I have never like the One Way platform...maybe it's just my lousy set-up and/or the vibration of that Delta grinder...not sure. I had a friend put a notch in an additional One Way platform and, it really is nice (at least for me) to get up nice, close and personal to the wheel that the notch allows. For micro bevels or the limited amount of free handing that I am doing, I really like the notched platform.
I have no experience with the Veritas products so, I have no comment or opinion. I'd like to think that I can have at least one solid, notched platform made up for the Baldor...either 8 or 12 ".
Still need to do alot of looking around for wheels. Looked at the MSC web site last nite and, it was pretty confusing for me. Even on the evil Delta, those Norton SG wheels are very nice and my choice thusfar.

John, if I might be so bold...what grits do you prefer on your Baldor?
Tks,
J

I have two grit wheels, 60 and 60.

I actually currently have a diamond wheel on the right side for carbide metalworking tools. I use 60 grit for gouges and turning tools, but I do use 46 grit for some tool making. I have several grinders.

Also, if one is right handed, your main wheel should be on the left, and you should be able to stand on the left end. The height should be around the elbow, the same as the lathe. The movements are similar to turning, and having the grinder the right height helps with freehand grinding.

John

 

[Jay Coulson]

baldor grinders

Thanks John...60 and 60..! haha..no fooling around with a grit that takes forever to cut the steel. I like it.
Tks,
J