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Axminster???

S

ssinner

Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Messages
38
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Location
Bettendorf, Iowa
I just received a new Axminster chuck, but the box looks suspiciously like cheap Chinese cardboard, & the only reference to Axminster on the box is what appears to be a small Xerox style black & white copied sticker. The jaws I ordered with it are in an undoubtedly Axminster box - completely different from the chuck box, and having large full-color labels.

The chuck does not have the word 'Axminster' on it anywhere, but it does have a small inset circular brand on its face in the style of metal working chucks that says 'Bison".

Does anyone know if I might have received a Chinese knock-off of an Axminster???? Do Axminster chucks have the brand on them anywhere?
 
Axminster Chuck

I don't know if this helps.

I have several Axminster chucks (3) two are 7+ years old and came in plain blue cardboard boxes. The third is 2½ yrs old and came in a white box with a red & black stuck on label. The two early chucks are plain steel and the newer one is chrome plated. The older ones have a small round label inset into the chuck face with the name on them and the jaw number locations on a cross the newer one does not have the name Axminster anywhere on it.

The key thing surely is does it run true? If so does it matter where it is made? If you bought from Axminster then maybe they forgot to stick a label on the box if not then maybe someone is trying to rip you off.
 
chuck

Hello,

I live in the UK and have several Axminster chucks. My first came in a branded box and the second came in one similar to that which you describe. I spoke to Axminster about this and their response was to this effect..."we have now out-sourced the manufacture of the chucks to China but the quality should be the same as the UK manufactured chucks."

I have to say that there is a difference in the chucks, but after using both for a couple of years now they seem to make no difference to the functionality or accuracy of the chuck. My only bugbear is that the the key recess on the two is of different sizes. Other than that I have no problem with the chinese version.

You have, of course, still bought an Axminster chuck and their back-up service and guarantee are as strong as they would be for a UK manufactured chuck, so you are covered in that sense.

I belive the jaw sets are still manufactured in the UK at their own CNC plant, hence the branded box. I suspect that the manufacture of the jaws will go to China eventually. It sometimes seems that everything is made in China these days! And, in MY opinion, this is not a good thing!


I hope this helps.

Andy
 
I don't know where you ordered your chuck from but I would question that "Bison" brand name heavily! I was doing some searches the other night on ebay and ran across a number of chucks using that brand name. I found no reference to that being another name for axminster and wonder if someone has shipped an off brand chuck that will work with axminster jaws.

Wilford

Edit: Just ran search on ebay for "Bison Chuck" - one of the listings shows "made in Poland". Check out the description listing on this; http://cgi.ebay.com/13-Pcs-Bison-CA...ryZ45018QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
 
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The chuck appears to be very well made and carefully machined. I certainly cannot fault it on any visual indication.

My concern is that I may have paid too much for what I thought was going to be an English product.

Wouldn't you think a manufacturer, upon outsourcing a product, would then lower the price accordingly???
 
ssinner said:
The chuck appears to be very well made and carefully machined. I certainly cannot fault it on any visual indication.

My concern is that I may have paid too much for what I thought was going to be an English product.

Wouldn't you think a manufacturer, upon outsourcing a product, would then lower the price accordingly???
Click to expand...

Steve,

It has become something of a "given" that anything made in China (or Japan or Taiwan, or Korea, etc.) is, by definition, an inferior product. This mythe is fostered by those who either have an ax to grind or who have gotten burned by purchasing cheaply made items in the unrealistic belief that you get more than you pay for..

The fact is that the Chinese and others can and will match anything made anywhere for quality in both materials or craftsmanship IF THE PRODUCT SPECS CALL FOR THAT QUALITY. It is a fundamental principal of Asian business that quality of the finished product is the responsibility of the customer. If you give them "cheap" specs and pick less expensive (lower quality) materials, they will make your product just the way you have asked for it. You will get what you ask for and are prepared to pay for. As it has been explained to me, that is a fundamental difference between Eastern and Western manufacturing because here (USA) our tradition of craft tells us that there is only one level of quality, the best we can do. Our markets are driven by the customer comparison shopping competing products for both quality and cost. In Asia, any particular factory may turn out any number of different products of varying quality strictly depending on what the customer has ordered. If you're happy with tolerances of .009" and burrs and rough edges, it's one price. If you want .0001" and smooth, they'll do that too, but you'll pay more for it. "Made in China" doesn't necessarily mean cheaper.

If Axminster gave their Chinese supplier the same specs that Axminster used in their UK plant, the resulting product will most likely be indistinguishable from those "Made in England." Axminster still has the responsibility to you to test the Chinese product to make sure that it's within those specifications. It could well be Axminster was looking at too much in increased costs for domestic-made chucks which would have hurt their sales, and found that the only way they were able to maintain pricing levels was by the outsourcing. You wouldn't get a price reduction, but you wouldn't get a price increase either.

m
 
Axminster Chuck

Steve I have an Axminster Chuck and have no complaints so if your Specification is upto the same standard as mine I cannot see a problem.

However I dug out the Service Manual that came with the Chuck and was surprised that it was in fact back in 1995 when I obtained it, inside the Manual is a Test Card noting the date of the Test [28/03/95], the Chuck Number and the Centering Accuracy Measured all within 0.03mm of Centre.

The Manual is in both English and German and I believe it was made either in Eastern Germany [as it was then] or perhaps Poland?

I agree with most of what has been said by others vis vie Chinese Manufactured Products, my only bad experiance of such products were not neccessarily as a result of Poor Manufacturing but more about low cost designs being incorrectly relayed to the Chinese then a lack of inspection of the finished product.

I actually had my Machine replaced with a superior English Made Item after a prolonged debate with the UK Seller about bad engineering design rather than a badly manufactured product.

Somewhere in the translation I'm sure the word Cheap got mis-translated on numerous occassions.

Richard
 
Does anyone know if the "Bison" brand he stated in his original post was marked on the box is another trade name for Axminster?? I would be more worried right now that we have a retailer that may be passing off one brand as another more expensive brand.

Wilford
 
There is, or was, a sticker bearing the Bison decal on one of my Super Precision chucks. I always assumed that this was the mark of the tooling company and gave it no more thought.

I'll give Axminster a phonecall on Monday and get their response.
 
Wilford Bickel said:
I found no reference to that being another name for axminster and wonder if someone has shipped an off brand chuck that will work with axminster jaws.
Click to expand...

wouldn't it be nice if I could find a cheaper chuck to use the 3 sets of axeminster jaws I have sitting in a box somewhere in the shop...
 
I have two Axminster chucks. One I have had for about 6-7 yrs. and the other I have had about half that. One is made in Poland with a small round sticker that says the chuck is from Axminster. The other is made by Bison. Both of the chucks are of good quality and have worked very well for me. I purchased both of them from Craft Supplies.

I have found Bison chucks for machinists in either the Enco or MSC catalog. Basically the same chuck I have with different threads. I have used other chucks when visiting other turners and like my Axminster chucks the best (but then that is what I am used to).
Hugh
 
My Axminster was purchased over ten years ago. I have 2 sets of button jaws. 2 different size back plates, O'Donell jaws and other jaws. I recommend this chuck, also The Oneway,Nova and The Vicmarc. These have all been all sold in the USA for a number of years. I don't recommend any different from these brands. Any others may be sold on price points and you get what you pay for.
 
georgetroy said:
you get what you pay for.
Click to expand...

If that were actually true why does sorby m2 tools cost mosre than a lot of other higher end better steels from other manufacturers?
 
TurningDog said:
If that were actually true why does sorby m2 tools cost mosre than a lot of other higher end better steels from other manufacturers?
Click to expand...

Dog,

Is this a trick question? Let's be clear, Sorby buys their steel stock just like everybody else. Hamlet (Packard samo) doesn't even heattreat their tools; just grind'em and ship'em.

Now if you want to pay more for Sorby M2 than for, say, Packard/Hamlet 2030, hey, to each his own. But I do have this friend with some South Florida real estate . . . 😀

M

ps: In case you guessed, I was born at night, but not last night. 😉
 
Back to that Axminster/Bison 4" precision chuck. I found time to set it up yesterday. Two problems:

The key would not fit in the chuck. It was .023" too wide. It's a square key, so I ground it down on the disk sander, easily keeping the key square. Not too bad a problem.

The back plate that I received was threaded all the way to the back face of the plate. That meant that it would not thread all the way onto anything, because spindle threads don't go all the way to the face of the spindle. Fortunately, I have a large metal lathe, and was able to chuck up the back plate and bore a relief into the threads about 3/16". Now it works fine. But, for most buyers, that may have been a dangerous problem. If used without face-to-face contact, a chuck is not locked in place, and the relationship between the chuck and the spindle may change while the work is in progress.

I found the inspection paper, which indicated the chuck was made in 2004. It is a very heavy and well-made chuck, & I look forward to using it.

BUT, I have four Vicmarc chuks, none of which required any modification to work correctly, and they take up at least an inch less horizontal space on the lathe, bringing work closer to the headstock. That's important to me, since I do a lot of work that is unsupported on the tailstock end, and there is always a limit to the distance away from the headstock that you can work before getting vibration (lathe problem, not a chuck problem). So, I'll stick to Vicmarc in the future.

Steve Sinner
 
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Thanks for the review, Steve. I use a Vic as well and was thinking of getting either an Axminster or another Vic at the Symposium. Think I'll stay with the Vic. Wish they'd make a good set of serrated jaws though. Their "Shark" jaws are the pits.

m

ps: sent you a PM
 
Alternative chuck

TurningDog said:
wouldn't it be nice if I could find a cheaper chuck to use the 3 sets of axeminster jaws I have sitting in a box somewhere in the shop...
Click to expand...

There is an alternative to the Axminster Super Precision chuck that takes the same jaws and that is the Versachuck from www.toolpost.co.uk. I have one of these and am very happy with it. This chuck comes with 3 sets of jaw carriers allowing use of Axminster, Nova and Oneway jaws. It is considerably cheaper than the Axminster. If you are interested there is a brief review with photos on my website at www.turnspain.com/versachuck.htm.
 
colinsp said:
There is an alternative to the Axminster Super Precision chuck that takes the same jaws and that is the Versachuck from www.toolpost.co.uk. I have one of these and am very happy with it. This chuck comes with 3 sets of jaw carriers allowing use of Axminster, Nova and Oneway jaws. It is considerably cheaper than the Axminster. If you are interested there is a brief review with photos on my website at www.turnspain.com/versachuck.htm.
Click to expand...

I am familiar with the versachuck but the last time I checked it was about a $100 more expensive than the 4" precision axminster here in the states.
 
Axminster

Steve,

It is my understanding that the Bison chuck was always sold by Axminster. I belive that Bison is made in Poland (or was made in Poland) before the advent of cheap Chinese labor. Sent to England for repackaging with Axminster jaws and resold.

I have four of the chucks. I bought them at different times over the last 15 years. The 1st one I bought was in the early 90's. The newest chuck (less than two years old) is the same quality as my older chuck. I've had to refit them with a new back plates to fit the Oneway 1" dia x 8 tpi spindle (as Oneway's spindle is a little longer than my old Delta). However, all run true enough for my work. In fact, I can interchage chucks on the same piece and get it running true without a problem.

For the type of work I do I find them indespensible. Steve, I know your work and susoect that your tolerances are much tighter than mine. I would be interested to hear how you like the chuck.

Angelo
 
Cost of Versachuck

TurningDog said:
I am familiar with the versachuck but the last time I checked it was about a $100 more expensive than the 4" precision axminster here in the states.
Click to expand...

In the UK the price of the Axminster is £175 ($325) and the Versachuck is £130 ($242). What do you get the Axminster for in the US? If it is cheaper than the Versachuck who is the supplier as I will order one?
 
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